Bad things we read about CIV3(for Dan).

[Damien]

I think Firaxis is leading the game to the right way with the ressource,combat and diplomatic systems.
However,i've read all articles broadcast on internet and i think it's time to make a statement of the bad things we've read:
1.the fact that there will be only 16 civs(just confirmed)...plz show you know people and cultures of the world.It's very uneasy for europeans to see their cultures forgotten in the game.We(europeans) could say the americans don't represent a civilization but just a blender that accepts everybody to have more production.(It's just a ridiculous argument to give an exemple.We know that americans represent a civ,a way to think,a way to be,a culture ).

2.Fundamentalism is gone and moreover there will be no fachism!It's true the fanatics concept in civ2 is ridiculous and the fachists in CTP even more...a mitrailler is a mitrailler(german or american),he still has his gun...so i think there should be no special unit for those govs.Fundamentalism exists in Iran and iranians rnt stronger.European fachism is different...it increases the production and a part of the people is killed by the other part of the people(so i don't see who wanna change for that gov but let's put it!)
3.The trade system with the capitol...it's simply ridiculous...gas from algeria arrives everyday in Marseille(France) and doesn't pass by Paris.I don't see the meaning of that system...could you explain.
All this to say...don't get far from the reality to make the game tougher...the way you've been doing it except those points is very good.

 

[BorderPatrol]

Plus we have no idea about what's being done to be sure we can easily hook up for multiplayer games like we could on the Zone for Civ II, but couldn't on Alpha HQ for Alpha Centauri because it was very poorly set up.

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[Damien]

I now see the point of the fact that trade will have to pass through the capitol...all goods and ressources will be sold(if there are caravans in civ3) to the capitol.
you'd have to make roads to bring goods and ressources(free shipping from the capitol i hope) to the selected cities...if a city doesn't have a road to bring steel it won't be able to build tanks for instance.
So the capitol will organize the trade for the whole country...as it's done in France where everything pass through the Roissy traffic zone(near Paris) and is sent to whole France(oleducts are connected to raffineries );so really everything is sent from there.
That's why you better protect your territory.
But it requires legions or phalanxes etc and requires bronze,iron,etc and the more you trade that the more you have to build those units and it goes on and on and on....what a vicious circle

Did i get it right dan...if not you 'd still have to explain

 

[SlowwHand]

I think that without a doubt Civ III will address many things that were unknowns at the time of release of Civ II.

There is a basis of comparison now, that didn't exist between I and II.



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[CornMaster]

Originally posted by Damien:
2.Fundamentalism is gone and moreover there will be no fachism!It's true the fanatics concept in civ2 is ridiculous and the fachists in CTP even more...a mitrailler is a mitrailler(german or american),he still has his gun...so i think there should be no special unit for those govs.Fundamentalism exists in Iran and iranians rnt stronger.European fachism is different...it increases the production and a part of the people is killed by the other part of the people(so i don't see who wanna change for that gov but let's put it!)

In the recent Pre-view they announced that Nationalism is a government type. Which is like facism/fundamentalism.

So, no panic!!!


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[BlueMonday]

Trade commondities have to go through the capitol? WHAT'S THE DEAL?

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[HomeAir]

at least you won't have to build caravans or trucks and that will free up the production for useful things like tanks, schools, etc.

 

[Flatlander Fox]

I frankly am terrified of two things:

Special Units

Proximity of Civs in real life and the game.


Special Units are IMHO a horrible idea. I just can't see what good a Hoplite is going to do for you during an age when you have no production power anyway. But if you can hold on (survive), and then build supertanks, well that will be something special. The problem, EVERYBODY will always want to be the Germans. Or the Americans with their F-15. I just don't like the idea of a better Civ or fighting when multiplayer games start being played with remarks such as "No Germans allowed" or "I can't win with the Zulus so I quit".

Next problem: Proximity with other Civs.
When I play the Romans, do I always want to have the Greeks on my borders?? Judging from their horrid behavior in Civ 2 I think not. The point is maybe I would like to see the Japanese next to the Romans for a change.

Now the example of this evil thinking:

I am the Egyptians, and I will always be confronted by Hordes of the Zulu special units very early in the game due to our proximity. Therefore I will always attempt to preempt the attacks by either attacking first or building city walls. Or the Persians may be coming with their war elephants. I would rather see Americans, or Souix, that's a pleasant suprise and one that requires thinking instead of a preplanned strat before I start.

I play the world map when I want to know who is around me, I don't want that to happen in every game of Civ 3. And I have said before that it is MY job to make my Civ more powerful than everybody elses. Not the designers!!

But all this evil talk aside, this game is going to be great, IF a few things are tweaked or changed.

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It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at THAT man.

 

[Damien]

The thing that's really annoying me is the fact that there will be only 16 civs overall even if there's the custom button.
What if the americans couldn't annihilate the englishes?Or the englishes couldn't annihilate the frenches

Hey,why only 16 civs...explain!

 

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by Damien:
The thing that's really annoying me is the fact that there will be only 16 civs overall even if there's the custom button.
What if the americans couldn't annihilate the englishes?Or the englishes couldn't annihilate the frenches <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/wink.gif" border=0>
Hey,why only 16 civs...explain!

It's simply a matter of time: the sheer amount of art we have to do for each Civ really constrains us. As I've stated numerous times before, we consciously chose quality over quantity. I'd personally rather have 16 very high-quality and distinctive civs than 48 cookie-cutter civs, anyway. And, with the editors, people will be able to create whatever Civs they want.

Dan
Firaxis Games, Inc.

 

[Damien]

What?you reduced the number of civs cause of the lack of time?
Come on...What's annoying you?
Maybe good programmers here could do those stuffs for you and send the work to you!
But each proposition would have to be real civ...not the jamaïcans of CTP for example.
My proposition:the swisses
special unit:swiss pikemen.
Caracteristics:neutral since 1815 and only real democraty since 1874,multilingual and peaceful.
So,people wouldn't have to design their civ and how would it be with the multiplayer mode and specific units?
And you didn't answer to my question about the trade

Explain what's so hard to do to model a civ.

 

[Loaf Warden]

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS:
It's simply a matter of time: the sheer amount of art we have to do for each Civ really constrains us.

So it is the eye candy such as the animated leaders that's taking civs away from us.

I'm not upset about their not adding new civs. Yes, it would have been nice to have the Dutch and the Canadians and the Inca and whoever else available. But if that's who we want to be, we can customize our own. I do it all the time in Civ II; always have. (And the fact that I've recently learned you can even customize your enemies makes playing Civ II all the sweeter.) But taking away civs they've already given us for the sake of some flashy graphics seems . . . not quite kosher, to me.

Just a thought.

I retain enough enthusiasm about other aspects of the game to still be excited about it. I trust the team down at Firaxis knows what they're doing. No game has ever been--or will ever be--perfect. Even the best games have things we wish were different. Very well; so we have fewer civs to work with. I'm as disappointed as anyone about that. But maybe once we get the game, we'll find that it rocks so much we won't really mind. At least, that's what I keep telling myself. . . .

 

[Tripa]

Well i just want to know that if there not going to have more civs are you planning on making modes for new civs after release??

And i also want to know about the Server types you will be using as i was wondering if it will be posible to set up open servers coz i do have Satalite and run a clan and it would be much easyer if any time i had a match or somthing i could just open my own server rather then jump into a open server (which i must say do crash alot more)
if you could get back to me on this

 

[Captain Pugwash]

I agree with Flatlander Fox.

I am also concerned that tribes will have special units only available to that tribe. I cant see any point in this and it is very likely to make certain tribes have an advantage. I see this as reducing the appeal of the game internationally and if it turns out that the American tribe always wins...what do you think the response to that will be worldwide ?

Equally, having the Greeks always appear as neighbours to the Romans etc...well it might work on a world map but since most maps used are random, it seems pointless. Worse, it will make the game more predictable where the opposite would be more fun.

Having said that, I still look forward to the new game from what I have read. Most of the changes look great. Hope there is still time to reconsider these 2 points.

 

[SunTzu]

OK Damien lets not try and piss Dan off

Here's my 2 demands, one that it's not a complete failure like CTP and CTP2 (Those freaking bugs like the CTP2 bug that will give people who do it right the power to build anything in 1 turn! even wonders!) And that it doesn't require a 500mhz +/- processor to play like CTP series.
U don't wanna piss SunTzu off

 

[stormerne]

Thanks, as ever, Dan for taking the time to contribute!

Personally, I'm not bothered about having large numbers of civs. I'm happy to see that there will be facilities to customize civs. I may be an old man (!) but I am <u>passionate</u> about Civ! I <u>really want</u> CivIII to succeed - not just on my own computer screen, but commercially as well (for all the reasons I stated in this thread ). And that's why the quality that Dan talks about is SO important.

Bringing out CivIII is a far greater risk than bringing out CivII ever was because the market is ever more sophisticated and affluent. In order to mitigate those risks and still get the product to market, some compromises have to be made, some personal sacred cows have to sacrificed, and some cosmetics have to be indulged in.

So let's give these guys a break!

I don't know how big the Firaxis development team is, but I know that even with a team as large as my own (I work in a small leading edge software company with a team of 13 developers) there is a practical limit to how much we can achieve in any one delivery cycle. CivIII will not be the be-all-and-end-all and I don't expect it should be. We should think, maybe, more in terms of incremental release, and there'll be more room for expansion, customization, etc. in the future.

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[Tripa]

yeah that bug pissed me off when i found out about it as i have said to Thunderfall i actually threw the game out the window and now im planing on going back to Civ2 for a while maybe if activision hadnt stoped producing patchs this wouldnt have been such a bad thing, but oh well **** it not much longer till CIV3 now YEAH
SKAVEN REJOICE
for more infor on CTP2 bug goto http://www.geocities.com/skavenclan/bug.html
[}S{]Tripa[}S{]

 

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by Damien:
What?you reduced the number of civs cause of the lack of time?
Come on...What's annoying you?
Maybe good programmers here could do those stuffs for you and send the work to you!
But each proposition would have to be real civ...not the jamaïcans of CTP for example.
My proposition:the swisses
special unit:swiss pikemen.
Caracteristics:neutral since 1815 and only real democraty since 1874,multilingual and peaceful.
So,people wouldn't have to design their civ and how would it be with the multiplayer mode and specific units?
And you didn't answer to my question about the trade <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/wink.gif" border=0>
Explain what's so hard to do to model a civ.

It has nothing to do with programming. Trust me, our programmers are the best at what they do and they don't need any help. It's just a matter of quality. We simply wanted distinctive Civs that were more robust than the cookie-cutter civs of previous games.

There are always going to be folks who wanted their country in the game, and that is exactly why we are going to ship with very robust editing tools. I trust you will create a great Swiss custom civ for us and share it with all the other Civ players.

Listen, there are a great deal of art and sound assets going into each of our Civilizations, and it's a lot deeper than just the leader heads, and the overall quality of the game is better off for it.

As for the Civ-specific units, you should all relax. YOU CAN TURN THEM OFF. This is not the end of Civ as you know it. It's simply another feature you can choose to play with or without. And the good news about Civ-specific units is that their inclusion in the game ensures the ability of mod-makers to create scenarios with units that only specific civs can build.

I would love to hear just what kind of insane advantages you guys think the Civ-specific units are going to bestow on players, though. I've heard some people say the Americans will be unstoppable because they've got the F-15, how can the Zulus compete? But then I've heard other people say that the Americans would be killed off by the Zulus early because the Zulus have an early advantage and know the Americans will get the F-15 later.

As for the real-life proximity of Civs, I'm not sure where you got that information, but I don't really remember that happening whenever I've played the game. I'm nearly certain that would also be a user-selectable function if it indeed was going into the game. Or maybe it is in the game and I just never noticed it. Hard to say, I'll keep an eye out for my neighbors next time I play.

Dan
Firaxis Games, Inc.

 

[animepornstar]

well dan, then you have to give us a list of all the civs that will be in the game.

are the vikings, the mongols and the turks cookie-cutters, when the aztecs and the iroquois aren´t? however, i´m really looking forward to make a sweden civ.

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[goodbye_mr_bond]

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS:
I'll keep an eye out for my neighbors next time I play.

"The next time I play," he says, just to make us salivate...

Hey Dan, if you need someone to pour your drinks for you, or maybe fan you as you play, I'm your man. I'm sure I can be a great groupie.

And thanks for quelling my fears about the civ-specific units. I no longer plan to bomb any Firaxis facilities.

Yes, I'm kidding.