Bad1: The Mesopotamia Conquest!

[vmxa]

The tech calc tool did not match up with what I got by hand, nor did either match up with CAII. That is why I was not sure what the cost factor is for this scenario. It is close, but not exactly.

The size is strange as well as the world tiles is way over what you should get from a small map. I guess it is not a true small 80x80 and was made by hand. The thing is the tool I use has a txt for all the std scenarios.

Is this the Meso map?

 

[TheOverseer714]

I have played this scenario before, as Egypt(wonder victory) and the Greeks(vp victory). The one good thing about the scenarios is they are short, and this one looks like it is about 20-40% through. The Medes are good for military victories. Let me try a turn-set and I'll see if it is winnable from where it is.

 

[Abaddon]

Go for it TO714

 

[vmxa]

It looks like the map is using cost factor for a large map, but even that does not come out for all tech I looked at. Is it AP? That would explain all the troop builds.

 

[TheOverseer714]

It isn't AP, but it looks like the AI is building at DG level. This SG is probably not winnable, with 60 turns left, I just built the first Army, and the Wonders are getting built. The only real chance is to get out and capture enemy cities.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I played 8 turns to get us to turn 105. I think this one will probably be lost via wonder victory unless we get some serious pwnage soon to capture some. BAD NEWS> sumeria has 2, as does Phoenicia. It could still be won with lots of Military victories, but as far as I can tell, only 2 wonders remain unbuilt. Anyway, here is my turn-log:

Spoiler :

Pre-Flight: CivAssist 2, Word running. Open the save, look things over.
Bad news, this game is past the halfway point(turn 97 of 160), and we’re in second place. Lots of Wonders being built, and that’s how this scenario is usually won or lost. It can be won by Victory Points(beating opponents up and tech being researched, or building more wonders.

Civilian units:
Settler 1
Workers 31
Slaves 5
Scout 1

Military units:
Warriors 10
Archers 6
Spearmen 6
Horsemen 5
Immortals 17
Companion Infantry 1

Unit Support:
Total units: 12
Allowed: 8
Support cost: 4 gpt

Press enter=>

IBT: Surian Archers lose first battle, then destroy an Immortal. Others avoid attacking.
Egypt wants to trade territory maps….sure.
Zariqum settled SW of Sumeruin.
Farmstead Companion Infantry=>Companion Infantry.
Wheat Hills Companion Infantry=>Barracks.
Amen, Brother Spearman=> Spearman.
Iron Lion? Spearman=>Burial Mound.

Turn 1, 840 BC: Kill the winning Archer.
Move troops toward the front, worker tasks.

IBT: Sumerian Archers kill 2 Immortals and a healthy Archer….RnG sucking big time. Our new Fancy units are getting toasted by their cheap original units.
Harran Settler=>Spearman.
Food Stamps Companion Infantry=>Barracks.
Iron Lion? Burial Mound=>Spearman.
Hillock Companion Infantry=>Companion Infantry.
Babylon builds the Mausoleum of Masollos.

Turn 2, 820 BC: First attack this turn, killing an Enkidu guarding a Sumerian settler, nets a Great Leader, Deoices.
Maybe our best chance of winning is armies. Otherwise, try to get ready for attacking into Sumeria, which gets Babylon against us.

IBT: Sumerian Archers turn east.
Babbling Brook Marketplace=>Horseman.
Raga Companion Infantry=>Companion Infantry.
Drunken Furriae Burial Mound=>Horseman.
Desert Outlook Spearman=>Spearman.
Tuspa Granary=>Settler.
Sumeruin Spearman=>Walls.

Turn 3, 800 BC: Build 1st Companion Infantry, load 1 in.
Move into Sumerian territory.

IBT: Sumerian Archer retreats a Horse.
Wheat Hills Barracks=>Companion Infantry.
Greenland Settler=>Burial Mound.
Urartu Warrior=>Spearman.
Babylon declares war on us.

Turn 4, 780 BC: Lose 2 Attackers on a Bab Bowman, we’re going to lose Parataika. Our troops can’t seem to beat the weakest units.
An Immortal does manage to kill a Spear guarding a Bab Settler, giving us 2 slaves.
Arminya settled near Sumeruin.

IBT: Sumerian Archers move east and come north.
Phoenicians warn us about our scout.
Bab Bowman razes Parataika.
Babbling Brook Horseman=>Companion Infantry.
Farmstead Companion Infantry=>Companion Infantry.
Raga Horseman=>Companion Infantry.
Food stamps riots for unknown reason. 4 happy, 4 sad, shouldn’t be a riot.
Amen, Brother Spearman=>Archer.
Irrigation Canal Companion Infantry=>Horseman.

Turn 5, 760BC: Kill 2 Archers with 1st CA. Kill EW with Immo.
Kill the redlined Bab Bowman that razed Parataika.

IBT: Bab Bowman finds our Scout, bye dude.
Food stamps Barracks=>Companion Infantry.

Turn 6, 740 BC: Kill an EW with an eImmo, no leader.

IBT: Sumerian Archer kills an Immo. But our Spear wins….lovely.
4 Bab Bowmen appear to our east.
Harran Spearman=>Archer.
Kampada Companion Infantry=>Archer.
Riverfront Worker=>Burial Mound.

Turn 7, 720 BC: Destroy as many Sumerian Archers as I can. 6, I think.
Try to get some attacker to the East.
Kill 1 spear at Eridu, losing a Companion Infantry in red-lining the other.
Settle Catpatuka up north.

IBT: Sumerian Archers lose twice this turn promoting 2 Immos.
Bab Bowmen gather another one, 5 of ‘em now.
Research of Horsemanship gives us a leader! Next is City Planning.
Babbling Companion Infantry=>Cavalry.
Wheat Hills Companion Infantry=>Companion Infantry.
Raga Companion Infantry=>Companion Infantry.
Desert Outlook Spearman=>Archer.
Amnesia Burial Mound=>Settler.
Phoencians build the Hanging Gardens and the ToA.
Sumerians build the SoZ.

Turn 8, 700 BC: Capture Eridu, destroy Sippar.
Less luck at Samarra, lose 2 Immos, killing 1 Spear.
Another eImmo loses 3 hp killing an rArcher.
I stop here at Turn 105, I’m shocked at how much the wonders boost the vp scores.

Civilian units:
Settler 1
Workers 32
Slaves 9
Scientific Great Leader 1(use to build Pyramids?)

Military units:
Warriors 10
Archers 4
Spearmen 13
Horsemen 6
Army 1, 3 Companion Infantry
Immortals 10
Companion Infantry 11
Cavalry 1

Unit Support:
Total units: 90
Allowed: 64
Support cost: 26 gpt

Sliders
40% tech/40%taxes/20%luxury

Research:
Epic Work projects, 4 turns, +28 gpt. (146 in the bank)

The save:

 

[vmxa]

The scenario says that wonders are 5 times the normal VP. It allso says the game is set to AP, but CA did not reflect that.

 

[vmxa]

I think this can be won, IF I understand the rules and that may not be the case. First the game appears to end once all 7 wonders are build. The Great Light House is the stopper for that one.

Then it ends if all are dead, I guess.

Then if you have 160 turns or 5500 VP.

It looks like the only thing that cannot be stopped is the 160. So if you get the Pyramids, and grab one or more nations, you should move to first place in VP.

I do not know if you would win with the most VP or the most Wonders. If VP, then you have a shot.

My question would be what the heck was the plan in the first place? The towns are not laid out to facilitate working on any victory or anything for that matter. You really need to go with CxxC or even less in this game as it will not last long enough to use more tiles anyway.

In the 860 save they have spears and warriors going up, rather than more powerful attackers. Not a single wonder was built? So I am confused, maybe I do not understand the scenario.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I think this can be won, IF I understand the rules and that may not be the case. First the game appears to end once all 7 wonders are build. The Great Light House is the stopper for that one.

Yes, once the last wonder is built, the game ends. The winner either has the most wonders or the most victory points. Right now, it will likely be Phoenicia.

Then it ends if all are dead, I guess.

Very nearly impossible, with this map.

Then if you have 160 turns or 5500 VP.

It looks like the only thing that cannot be stopped is the 160. So if you get the Pyramids, and grab one or more nations, you should move to first place in VP.

It almost never gets to turn 160. The VP victory may be our best bet. Kill enough enemies and capture enough cities and the VPs rack up fast. We have an SGL, which I had planned to use for the ToA, but that went in the cascade. 3 turns of research should give us the Pyramids with that leader.

I do not know if you would win with the most VP or the most Wonders. If VP, then you have a shot.

Win lots of battles in a short time and win the game.

My question would be what the heck was the plan in the first place? The towns are not laid out to facilitate working on any victory or anything for that matter. You really need to go with CxxC or even less in this game as it will not last long enough to use more tiles anyway.

In the 860 save they have spears and warriors going up, rather than more powerful attackers. Not a single wonder was built? So I am confused, maybe I do not understand the scenario.

The plan was never spelled out, and honestly, not sure if there was a plan. This is one of the most ad hoc SGs I've ever seen. Good people with no plan.

 

[vmxa]

One of the reason I did not play the scenarios is that you cannot even scroll the map around to see all the tiles. I had forgotten that.

Yeah, there is no shot at taken them down form here. Once the GA ends, you will be in trouble. I revolt would probably be needed. Getting the Pyramids is a lock, but not sure if you can do much with that, even if you make the lighthouse.

 

[vmxa]

Right off the bat I do not understand why the settler that founded Babbling Brook was moved to that place. The better moved would have been to move the tile next to that spot, along the river.

You then are stealing fewer tiles form the capitol. You get the fur into the empire sooner. You are gaining more tiles for your empire.

The other starting settler looks to have been moved many tiles? Like you say I know a few of the players, so I am not sure why these things were done. If this was just a normal amount of turns and no wonder or VP, then you could do anything you want at Emperor.

The VP and Wonder and 160 turn makes every move and action much more important as at least one nation gets a decent head start.

Anyway I played about 15 turns and was able to have a large lead in VP. 3960 to 2430, so the game can be won, if VP beats Wonders.

I am not using the computer I played on yesterday, so I do not have the log. Mainly I just razed some towns of the red guys (babs?). Killed a few stacks of 6 units both red and blue. I did trade a tech.

It looked like no one is working on the Lighthouse as they do not know the prereq tech. I shutdown some of the builds for things like mounds and settlers that are 30 turns out. We don't have enough time for that and once the GA ended, they would take even longer.

The first two turns were the trickiest as two or three stacks of 6 were closing in and it was not easy to get enough help.

I would say just mark it down as a win and start a new one. BTW as usual losses came on counter attacks. I would wonder if this game would not be easiest to win by making about 12 towns and then killing as many as you can find.

The VP is:

Wonder * 25
kill unit * 5
tech * 5
conquest city * 100
special unit 1000

I do not know what a special unit is, so do not know if there are any. The conquest may mean capture or raze, not sure. I did not capture any, so raze seems to apply.

 

[vmxa]

I have gotten to 500BC and have 5110 to start the turn and the next one has 2540. It won't be long till it is over.

 

[vmxa]

Here is the final play:

 

[vmxa]

I do not have the log form yesterday, but here is today's.

Spoiler :

570BC:
Killed a Sumer archer. 3970
Killed a spear in a Bab town for 75 gold. Now have 4080. I see 100+3970=4070. So I guess 10 for spear or archer to get to 4080.
Kill Sumer archer 4090.
Kill Bab bow and warrior 4105. Looks like warrior is only 5.
Kill Bab spear 4115. Next close is 2490.

Egypt and Hittites DOW.
Barb up rise near Catpatuka.

IBT:
3 bows attack. First dies and makes cav red. Second dies and promotes horse. Third retreats horse.

560BC:
4135/2490. So they did no killing.

kill Camp Inf (CI) 4160 (25).
kill Hit archer (4170).

550BC
kill two Sumer archers 4190/2490.
kill 2 Bab spears and destroyed Eulbar and liberated 82 gold.
Two workers inside. 4345.

I upgrade a red horse for 30 gold, we have plenty thanks to the Babs.

The barbs are just not up to attacking right now, so I let them wait.
I do not know if they are worth points or not.

kill Sumer archer 4355.
kill Bab spear 4365.

IBT:
lost a Ci. 3man dies attacking town.

540BC:
Start Ship Build.
Found town

kill 3 Sumer archers and get a leader and form army. 4460
kill 3man 4480.
kill 3man 4500.
kill 2 more Sumer archers 4520. Used the new 2nd. Will fill next turn.

1st is nearly healed and is between two settler pairs. So we will raze at least one next turn. This game is a lock, even with the Hittites coming. Needing less than 1000 points and will have 2 armies.

3/3 CI kills CI across river and goes vet. I had a horse to finish if needed, that is why I risked the 3/3. 4545.

IBT:
Win one and lose one. 4555/2540

530BC:
kill 2 Hit archers 4575.
kill another 4585. Made 2 elites so far this round.
kill 2 more archers 4605.

archer kills bow 4615.
cav kills Sumer archer.
1st kill Sumer pair 4650.

kill Endu 4655. Wow only 5, guess it is the same as warrior.
2nd kills 2 Sumer archers and get an elite 4675.
kill Bab CI 4700.

520BC:
kill Bab spear 4710.
kill Hit archer 4720.
kill Sumer archer 4730.
kill another 4740.

kill Sumer spear 4750.
kill Bab spear/settler 4775.
kill 3man and warrior 4800.

IBT:
Get three kills and lost 1 warrior on defense 4830/2540.

510BC:
kill 2 Hit warriors 4840.
kill 2 spears in Uruk and raze for 1 slave and 102 gold 4965.
kill Sumer archer 4975.
kill Bab spear 4985.

2nd kills two Sumer archer 5005. Crack 5k.
5/5 Ci kills Hit spear/settler and I disband slaves as they are too far from home and 3man is near. Probably will lose the CI as it is now 3/5. 5030 not sure if settler get 15.
kill 2 Hit archers 5050.

kill two more 5070.
kill two more and both go elite 5090.

IBT:
Two Hit archers attack cavs and die and both cavs go elite 5110/2540.

500BC:
kill 3man and warrior 5135.
kill warrior 5140.
kill Sumer spear 5150.
2nd kills two spears in Lagash 5170.

490BC:
kill Sumer spear 5180.
2nd kills one and razes Lagash. Disband slave we have 5590, so I guess that does it.
kill 3man 5610.
kill Bab CI 5635.

kill Hit spear 5645.
kill 2 bows 5665.

Ship will be done on the IBT.

 

[Abaddon]

Well then. My first game is a success. Thankyou all that have played and enjoyed it

vmxa, thankyou for getting involved, you are teaching me a lot.

Interest in Bad2: The second scenario?

 

[vmxa]

I am always glad see someone get more out of the game. Right now I am a little sour on SG's as they seem to stall so frequently.

 

[neotemplar]

Actually I might be interested in a Bad2.... I kinda like the conquests.