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Discussion in 'Rise from Erebus Modmod' started by Valkrionn, Jul 31, 2010.

  1. Tsathoggua

    Tsathoggua Warlord

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    Every single unit in the D'Tesh recon line can do this.
     
  2. Torugu

    Torugu Prince

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    I quite like his art, it seems to fit him pretty well. What kind of image are you looking for? Perhaps you should make a thread (once the excitement about 1.3 has cooled down somewhat)?

    Xivan is my favourite leader precisely because he is a civilization of it's own, he is the first and only Civ leader (that includes vanilla, FFH and every other mod I've played to date) to break the ancient Civ dogma of features either being tied to their respective civilizations or being freely accessible for everyone and surely that's a huge asset for a mod which is as focussed on diversity and uniqueness as Rife?
     
  3. Opera

    Opera Deity

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    Well quite to Valkrionn dismay I may bring in a leader that will also be a civilization... Anyway.

    Not that Xivan's art doesn't fit him, it doesn't fit the others. Out of place.

    What kind of picture I don't know for as long as people find it fitting with Xivan AND with the rest of the pictures ;)
     
  4. Tsathoggua

    Tsathoggua Warlord

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    Is the Conqueror trait somehow more different than Tolerant than I thought it was at first glance?

    Because I think the Elohim have been using other civs' abilities and what-not since FFH. Mind you I never played the Elohim because they aren't really my style.

    Regarding making D'Tesh commanders no longer invisible -- this is obviously going to drastically impact play as Thanatos, possibly discouraging the use of commander-led recon groups entirely.

    I fully agree that invisible fort-spam is way too powerful. Is there some other way to fix this, though? Perhaps make fort construction mutually exclusive with the spell Reveal Self?
     
  5. inuyashasama

    inuyashasama Warlord

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    IIRC Conqueror and Tolerant are exactly the same, just named differently to fit the attitude of the civilization. Aggressive civs get Conqueror and nicer civs get Tolerant. In both cases they let you build the unique stuff the old owner could.

    I think you have a good point about the commanders. Why not make them visible when casting field fortification instead of taking their invisibility away?
     
  6. EugeneStyles

    EugeneStyles Prince

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    That's what I was thinking, but wanted to check the game before I posted... If that's true, then what's this about Xivan being the only one with the most complicated trait?

    I quite like him, he's got some interesting stuff and his other trait is kinda like Spiritual, which even though it's not considered a strong trait is one of my favorites because it allows you to switch civics whenever it would be advantageous without having to worry about Anarchy. I don't even mind the -35% culture because I usually overrun enemies with my culture, so I have no problem with making that a little more difficult.

    And his picture is one of the few that I *don't* dislike... It's still blurry, but not as blurry as most of the others...
     
  7. Mikka

    Mikka Chieftain

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    Mar 12, 2010
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    The issue with Loki is the same for the whole D'Tesh recon line, as mentioned above. You can pop everything under the sun, and get away with it- only the possibility of your unit disappearing really limits you, and hey, if that happens, you just make a new one. Basically, you get to be the one spawning the invisible spider of doom or those 17str ogres (or in one amusing game, five minotaurs on turn ten right on poor Vann's borders)... and there are no consequences for it. If my units bumbling through the lair disturbed a spider or whatever, I think the spider should notice me.

    Maybe exploring should drop your invisibility for three turns? I don't know.
     
  8. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Hmm. Then it may just be that it's not clearly displayed. I'll test it out.

    Eh. Frankly, it's mainly his art that I dislike. Though I think we had found new art? I'd have to check.

    If he is kept, we desperately need to move the mechanic back into python, as it was originally, instead of all xml; It's too confusing this way.

    I believe it was bumped to 4 health and research, though I may be wrong.

    Yeah, the math there didn't lie, really is best to not have the pop point atm. That will be changed.

    That is my main issue as well. It doesn't fit the rest of the art used in the mod.

    Maybe that should be changed.... Could have exploration remove the invisibility promotion, same as combat?

    I think we may have one already honestly. Was just a few weeks ago that we had settled on art for new leaders, and discussed his.

    So long as the mechanic is understandable.

    Yes, Conqueror is actually stronger than Tolerant atm. It grants bonuses for Influence Driven War. Though it also doubles your culture LOSS if you lose combat. :p

    Invisible fort-spam has to be curbed, no way around that. I could make a new spell for them specifically, though, which removes the invisibility promo?

    Also: Only one Elohim leader has tolerant. The others do not.

    They used to be, yes, but they are not now.

    Xivan doesn't have tolerant or conqueror, he has Usurper. Which brings a whole new bag of tricks, which is handled entirely in xml and in a very messy way.
     
  9. Cyrusfan

    Cyrusfan King

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    Korinna the Black Lady might be a good model for the D'tesh recon. At least in 1.23, she had to cast a spell to become invisible, and the effect was removed after either combat or exploring. I didn't find it that onerous to reactivate it afterwards.

    My issue with the early 6/5 3 ranged Ogre is more the fact that it sits outside my city getting free xp for the entire time I build warriors. That was aggravating as D'tesh, and I don't even want to think about having to build that many warriors in a population 1 or 2 city.
     
  10. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    D'teshi Recon already does that, as far as combat is concerned. Not sure she lost it after exploration; If so, I'll see how it was done.

    Yeah, barbs will be adjusted. Fairly set on adding tags allowing me to configure what kind of stack they spawn in as well. :goodjob:
     
  11. Breez

    Breez King

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    Oct 17, 2008
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    I have no idea whats is going on or where they came from bu in my game I am constantly seeing some war ogres being reborn.. ie the message that they died but are immortal. I have seen that message maybe 30 times. Pretty sure they are barb ogres... is it possible for barbs to spawn immortal?
     
  12. legowarrior

    legowarrior Chieftain

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    Hey Valk, could the Wyvern's be overpowered for the Mazatl? I have them running around scarying everything and taking names. They are not all powerful, but with 9 of them, I'm not worried. Perhaps either limit them even more, or weaken them, and take off the cap. (Also make them smaller if you weaken them).

    Also, what happens if you recast the Mazatl's Spell?
     
  13. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Yes, if a barbarian unit is immortal they will respawn on the tile that they initially spawned on. Mostly for the Horsemen.

    Possibly, but it takes some effort to cast that spell; I think you should be rewarded for it.

    As for what happens if you recast... You get a second Monastery, but the same cap is still in place.
     
  14. Jarwy

    Jarwy Warlord

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    Jul 23, 2010
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    Hmm, Xivan. Yup, the guy was "lawful good" in my game and he looked like a bloody warlock in search of fresh sacrifices.

    - Played with Elves today and it was sad how I could no longer build on top of the forest, which would lead to "holes" in what should've been all forest Elven lands. Are camps seriously the only thing you can build in ancient forests (excl. roads)? No wonder AI was no longer interested in converting to Fellowship. ;)

    - It was refreshing to see that AI's fighting each other had reached a stalemate with neither side capturing any cities from each other. This didn't happen nearly often enough in previous versions.

    - Are the wonder videos disabled for now by design? I just see a picture for each. Tower of Eyes was also under a new name while it retained it's old "picture".
     
  15. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Should probably remove his ability to select his alignment as well.

    • Bug. It's an issue with LinkedBuilds, most likely.
    • Glad you're happy with it. :goodjob:
    • They were never enabled, actually. You have to specifically download the Media Pack for that. And Tower of Eyes is now a unique feature, with the Cathedral of Tali being the wonder.
     
  16. legowarrior

    legowarrior Chieftain

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    I think the issue I have is that fear is very powerful. I just scare all the units out of a city and take it over with 4-5 Wyverns. No fighting. Also there have the exact same abilities of the hero, which is a little boring. If it is not trampling on anyone's feet, I would suggest changing the hero into a flying caster with lower attack, just to keep it interesting, but I'm not sure what the mythology is of it all.
     
  17. EugeneStyles

    EugeneStyles Prince

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    Oh, then, easy solution, just remove Usurper and give him Conqueror... :king:

    That Charlatan stuff may be pretty interesting (honestly, haven't gotten to the point in the game to use it yet), but if it's a question between removing Usurper and losing Xivan entirely, I'd rather keep the leader. The Sidar don't have a leader with Spiritual (or another leader with Controlling), and the fact that Controlling and Charismatic probably aren't quite good enough on their own is balanced by him getting Conqueror as well, making him a pretty interesting leader without Usurper. (There may be other reasons to use him with other Civs, but I'm looking at it specifically from a Sidar perspective.)

    On the other hand, I'd rather he keep Usurper and I learn more about his actual unique bag of tricks, but the either option is better IMHO than nothing...
     
  18. Venir

    Venir Chieftain

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    I'll share a few of my thoughts on the new version. I've only played a couple games so far, 2 with D'tesh (leader as well), and partway through my first game with Austrin.

    First, I'm not sure how much stability has improved, but then again I never had horrible crashing problems in 1.2 either, perhaps from playing without animals. My first game with D'Tesh crashed before turn 50, after which I restarted because my starting position sucked anyway. Second game again had an early crash (sub 50), but worked fine on reload until 400 or so. Austrin crashed around 100, don't know about reload working yet. I've no idea what the early crashes were about, but the late game D'Tesh crash felt like it was memory-leak related as things were starting to become sluggish. Still, 300 turns between crashes isn't bad.

    - D'Tesh is even more easy-mode now. Playing on Immortal, there were maybe 50 turns in the early going that I wasn't in first place. Soon I was at twice the score of everyone else and simply cruising along. I NEVER do that well on immortal. His two major weaknesses were removed (horrible city defense early, and death immune units), so he basically has no weakness now. In 1.2 Hyborem would have easily destroyed him, now if an AI summoned the Infernals I'd just laugh.

    - The dynamic promotion text on D'Teshi Affinity doesn't seem to be working.

    - This has already been addressed, but it is quite fun popping every lair and ruin with your invisible scouts. Lots of free stuff, and watch as several civs die to the literal flood of Pit Beasts, Cyklops, Axemen, Drowns, Ogres, Stoneskin Ogres (At turn 30 no less, bye-bye Prespur!), and Warriors you unleash upon the world. :D

    - Yes, even in 1.2 Ogres ( and the aforementioned Stoneskin Ogre at Prespur, he had plenty of backup though :p ) would waste all their time ranged attacking units and never actually killing them.

    - Another odd thing is that around turn 350 (epic speed) I had a 1500 score while the remaining AI's were clumped around 700. Honestly they still seem to have issues expanding, as there was tons of free space on the map. Except for the half I controlled with my network of 75-100 forts. Watching the mini-map light up like a Christmas tree at the start of every turn from all those commanders casting Flay Flesh was fun.

    - D'Tesh doesn't seem to be limited in cities. Even though the vessels can no longer be built, you can still capture cities, and you receive a free vessel every time you raze a city. The pop cap in cities is too low, it's just enough to work the 3 tile ring. At the very least I think The Obsidian Spire should have a much high cap than the other, subordinate cities. I had a stack of 30 slaves working tiles since my five cities were pop capped, and I still had four AI's to kill.

    - Anyway... once you research KotE and get a couple slaves, the game is basically over with him.

    - I like the Austrin, but the health changes (no fresh water, deer, pig, fish, and gold in the area, so all kinds of tech needs) and horrible improvement build speeds means I've gotten little accomplished by turn 115, I believe is when it crashed last night.

    - On the other hand, the 3 great people I've popped from lairs have kept my economy afloat even with having 4 total cities, none connected to anything (my other cities or resources, I have deer and fish at this point at my capital), and working unimproved tiles. Building workers on site will take forever, and they have other needs as well, while building workers at my capital also takes forever, due to high unhealth, and having only 2 improved tiles to work, again deer and fish.

    - I know you guys wanted to slow down early city growth, but you overshot IMO. This is verging on boring in that game, although capturing cities and lairs with a couple explorers carrying attack falcons is proving amusing. Growth has always been capped by happiness, why change it now? It seems to me that limiting where you can build improvements, base improvement changes, and reversing Agrarianism already removed a lot of the excess food from the game. Changing such a base mechanic as unhealth so drastically seems unwise to me, it effects way too many things to easily account for them all when you decide to do so, and is a perfect candidate for the Law of Unintended Consequences to rise up and bite you in the ass. (IE: The Malakim are screwed now.)

    I'm really enjoying 1.3, however, so don't think I'm all negative. Monster and animal changes have been fine for me, no Hill Giants have made themselves a nuisance, Influence wars looks interesting (hasn't had a lot of effect yet though, too early in the Austrin game and the D'Tesh game... well yeah there's no one left to have an influence war against with him, lol ), AI is working with some things better, and I'm still looking forward to playing around with the Grigori and Sidar.
     
  19. BiffQJ

    BiffQJ Warlord

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    I absolutely agree here. Nine wyverns are pretty overpowered. I think part of the problem may be that they are too cheap. I had my capital big enough that with a recruiter post I was getting a wyvern every 4-5 turns (faster than settlers). Maybe they should cost twice as much and the cap should be 6 instead of 9 (if you want to offset that, they could each have either an additional strength or two, or a bonus against...let's say...demons maybe?) Just a thought...
     
  20. legowarrior

    legowarrior Chieftain

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    That's nothing, I can get one out every turn. I have epic and an outpost in my city.
    The fear ability also rocks. Get's rid of half the defends in the worst cases, all of them in the best. The hero though, I think needs to be rethought. I've been thinking it would be cooler if it were a spell caster with Channel I, II and III, but only an attack of 10 or so. With the high movement, it would make a real interesting addition. Some cool thematic spells would be Spirit 1, and Water 1, and maybe magic immunity. Get rid of acid and fear, those are just redundant.
     

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