Balance patch discussion and goals

[Balerune]

I did win this one game on King as Morocco but the game progressed in a strange way. @ turn 450 one of the AI started to gain and then overtake me (I was at the time @ 1k points ahead.) I generally try to avoid war but with only one AI friend I did war when they requested (and gave them some cities to fortify them.) @ turn 485 it was clear I was going to loose by @ 500 points so I declared war on the lead AI. Within the final 15 turns I won the game by @ 300 points.

My point is that it seems that there are a lot of points acquired by winning battles. I don't know if this is particular to my game or if this is a consequence of the mod but in the future I will not shy from war (as the AI seems to handle city defense in a peculiar way (sometimes without walls late in the game and not annexing cities.))

But are winning points skewed towards winning battles?

 

[Edaka]

I did win this one game on King as Morocco but the game progressed in a strange way. @ turn 450 one of the AI started to gain and then overtake me (I was at the time @ 1k points ahead.) I generally try to avoid war but with only one AI friend I did war when they requested (and gave them some cities to fortify them.) @ turn 485 it was clear I was going to loose by @ 500 points so I declared war on the lead AI. Within the final 15 turns I won the game by @ 300 points.

My point is that it seems that there are a lot of points acquired by winning battles. I don't know if this is particular to my game or if this is a consequence of the mod but in the future I will not shy from war (as the AI seems to handle city defense in a peculiar way (sometimes without walls late in the game and not annexing cities.))

But are winning points skewed towards winning battles?

You get points for the size of your military now (unlike in vanilla), which means that killing a lot of enemy units can significantly lower the overall score of your opponent alone. On the contrary, wielding a large army yourself will increase your score. Not to mention the amount of points you get/your opponent loses when you capture his cities.

 

[fe2o3x]

In regard to the people who play with the CP only, the AI now does not seem to value strategical resources much if at all anymore (horses, iron..)

Where the AI used to value 5 strategical resources = 1 luxury, now it asks for 8+ g/t for 1 luxury, but is only willing to offer 1 or maybe 2 g/t for 5+ strategical resources.

If I had to guess, it was made that way so you can't game the AI much by selling all your resources left and right, but that seems too extreme, and now you get the opposite effect, where 1 gold a turn is not enough of an incentive to trade and you just don't trade strategical resources at all anymore.

Maybe you can find a middle ground between the old values and the new values.

 

[Gazebo]

In regard to the people who play with the CP only, the AI now does not seem to value strategical resources much if at all anymore (horses, iron..)

Where the AI used to value 5 strategical resources = 1 luxury, now it asks for 8+ g/t for 1 luxury, but is only willing to offer 1 or maybe 2 g/t for 5+ strategical resources.

If I had to guess, it was made that way so you can't game the AI much by selling all your resources left and right, but that seems too extreme, and now you get the opposite effect, where 1 gold a turn is not enough of an incentive to trade and you just don't trade strategical resources at all anymore.

Maybe you can find a middle ground between the old values and the new values.

Value us dependent on how many strategic resources the AI currently has. They'll pay quite a but if they don't have any.

G

 

[qqqbbb]

There should be a way of getting strategic resources outside of your borders. For example building a iron mine and connecting it to your road network. The farther it is from your cities the more you have to pay for road maintenance.

 

[qqqbbb]

How about mobility 2 promotion for ships that will allow them to enter ocean before astronomy?.

 

[ExpiredReign]

How about mobility 2 promotion for ships that will allow them to enter ocean before astronomy?.

Hmm... maybe. I still don't know why Galleasses can't enter the ocean once Astronomy is researched, my puny fishing boats can!

 

[Babri]

Solar plant & especially nuclear plant feel quite weak. They provide only 5 production, 6-7 maintenance cost & have high production cost. Compared to other production buildings like coal plant/sea port they are pretty weak. I would suggest giving them 15-25% production boost & make them exclusive with coal plants as well.

 

[Alexalexa]

The idea of world wonders being able to conctruct only when you have certain number of policies is the worst possible idea in CPP. It is very hard to compete with II in culture especially on Deity so its borderline impossible to build wonders like Hanging gardens etc.

 

[aito]

How about ponderating luxuries distinctively through ages? So that some luxuries would be more valuable at a certain age and/or even become obsolete at some point....

 

[xqzw]

How about ponderating luxuries distinctively through ages? So that some luxuries would be more valuable at a certain age and/or even become obsolete at some point....

I like the idea, but with a bit different ending. It should behave like a sine wave, peaking with happiness bonus at the time it was received (through trade or tile improvement, doesn't matter) and dropping with time. Then starting to grow back as time passes (like trends and fashion behave in real world).

Also this:

 

[ltm0011]

In regard to the people who play with the CP only, the AI now does not seem to value strategical resources much if at all anymore (horses, iron..)

Where the AI used to value 5 strategical resources = 1 luxury, now it asks for 8+ g/t for 1 luxury, but is only willing to offer 1 or maybe 2 g/t for 5+ strategical resources.

If I had to guess, it was made that way so you can't game the AI much by selling all your resources left and right, but that seems too extreme, and now you get the opposite effect, where 1 gold a turn is not enough of an incentive to trade and you just don't trade strategical resources at all anymore.

Maybe you can find a middle ground between the old values and the new values.

I had a totally different experience. In a game I played with Russia recently, I was in the atomic age, and the AI bought as many horses as (s)he could afford, (3 GPT per horse. 7 GPT per iron) until he ran out of money and I was raking in the dough.
For reference I can get about 11 GPT for a lux resource if I'm on good terms with them.

 

[1shmael]

If there is one thing I would like to see changed in Civilization it would be this:

Make the AI actually colonize the New World on Terra Maps.

The AI is just too slow to go there, making the New World largely irrelevant to game play. I've tried every trick to coax the AI into inter-continental expansion. It just doesn't seem to work.

 

[CreonMushnik]

28, 34, 43 civ versions to make compatible please.

 

[Horvath Broncos]

So i started an emperor game with Carthage and I think they are little over powered. The money you get from finding a city in epic means you get basically a free worker in every city you settle. Add the free harbor I got so much growth in all my cities I built everything in my five cities as soon as I research them. At turn 100 I was first in every demographics most with healthy margins. I have to say I got a bit lucky starting on my own island and got monopoly of coral rather easily and uluru very close by. I got reformation on my religion before anyone even founded their religion. I would tone down the money from settling city that you can't buy a worker. Even something like enough to buy warrior would be enough because that harbor is already so good with growth.

 

[RaRa91]

I like the idea, but with a bit different ending. It should behave like a sine wave, peaking with happiness bonus at the time it was received (through trade or tile improvement, doesn't matter) and dropping with time. Then starting to grow back as time passes (like trends and fashion behave in real world).

Also this:

IMO this mod doesn't work well with historic era mod, mainly due to the fact that you have 0 incentive to keep a strong economy.

The AI will spam settlers and troops because everyone runs out of things to build, and with no downsides.

In my last CPP + Historic Era game, the Aztecs just continuously swarmed me with units. They had 0 gold and were making -40 GPT, but it didn't matter.

It might be better to tweak the mod so that it gives epic research times with standard build times.

 

[Qualanqui]

Hi, first off sorry if this has already been raised but google is not being my friend. Anyway I would like to raise the point of more unique components being added to the CPB as a modular addition (for the purists.)
Personally I think if handled properly adding 1 or 2 additional uniques to each civ would broaden the gameplay (especially on epic and marathon) astronomically. Take Germany or Russia for example, they have quite late uniques so adding something to the beginning of the game would help keep the juices flowing and vice versa for civs like Rome or The Zulus.
Also I think this could add more depth as well, take my favourite civ Denmark. Although I love the Jelling Stones I still miss the Longship which not only was a cool unit but tied into the vikings exploratory exploits and I also think that another facet of there culture, namely trade, could be shown through the use of a unique harbor which could lengthen trade routes, increase gold per route and maybe even increase science per route (damascus steel viking swords) and if that makes too many UBs move Jelling Stones to a UI like the Moai maybe.
So in conclusion I would like to say I appreciate the modding team have alot on there plates right now, but I think additional unique components would definitely be a very cool idea for a future project that would add so much to the CPB.

 

[1shmael]

Deleted Message

 

[Drakul]

The problem for me is food. Just to many microbuildings,policies that give food,boost growth etc. In few turns you can have a city that can work on multiple specialsts and also grow every 5-7 turns. It takes away the magic that you have to choose in what to invest. It is not quite important where do you place your city because of the microbuildings that give 1-2 food like the well or others. I like to have to choose will i make a city that has major production potential,resources diversity or build a city on grassland with river and get to fill my specialist slot. I don´t like that you can have all of that without problem...

 

[Therakis]

I feel the Authority tree needs to be toned down a bit as in almost every game I have played at least 2/3 of the AI in my games grab it, even the less warmonger-y civs because that production boost is ridiculous. It gets even worse when the AI starts using their insane prod boost to start puking out cities which just snowballs them harder than anything I have seen in my few thousand hours playing the game. My last game (last night) I just had to quit because Monty was puking out cities every other turn and was capable of so much production that he could simultaneously hold off and eventually overwhelm me (Persia), Austria, Arabia AND the Netherlands while he pushed back and captured 6 cities without slowing down since he could build units faster than any of us could kill them. We even had tech advantaged military and still got smoked when because of a 3-1 almost 4-1 numbers disadvantage.

tl;dr +6 production/city by the early classical era is just waaaaaaay too strong in the hands of the AI and should not be so good that even peaceful civs take it over Tradition/Progress