Balancing the Civs

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Wingednosering, Jul 27, 2017.

  1. Wingednosering

    Wingednosering Prince

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    It's no secret that some of the civs in this game are pretty underpowered. I'm sure there are many mods out there that have attempted to tackle this, but I thought it would be fun to pool some suggestions.

    With another overpowered DLC civ on the horizon, let's show some love to the little guys.

    I'll get the ball rolling: Egypt is obviously one of the lower tiered civs right now, which has only been highlighted with Nubia's coming.

    My suggestion would be to split their UA (Iteru) into two separate bonuses. Wonder production increased by faith output in the city. Farms on river tiles and floodplains provide +1 food, +1 faith.

    The sphinx should certainly be replaced in the expansion, but this thread is more about balancing what's there instead of suggesting completely new takes on existing civs.

    Anybody want to show Spain, Norway or France some love?
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
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  2. Birdism

    Birdism Chieftain

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    I'm hoping they balance some of the weaker civs as well through patches.

    For France, I'd suggest tweaking Catherine's LUA to replace the +1 diplomatic visibility with gaining an additional Diplomatic policy slot upon researching Political Philosophy.

    Edit: I like your idea of tying in boosts to wonder production to faith output for Egypt. Flat bonuses are less interesting :thumbsup:
     
  3. Xandinho

    Xandinho Deity

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    I agree that some civs urgently need adjustments and balances.

    Although weak, I think Spain is very well represented. Maybe the Missions need better bonuses.

    Norway is not necessarily weak. The problem is that in Civ6, the navy seems to be less important than in previous games, and AI does not seem to produce many ships, so navy-focused civilizations become hampered. Perhaps Norway does not need adjustments, but rather the game in this regard.

    Brazil also needs to be adjusted. The Amazon Forest bonus is weak and meaningless, the bonus should be to destroy jungle tiles, not to keep. And it's even worse when there is no improvement in the game that helps keep the jungle tiles. The developers need to add some jungle improvement to keep the tiles late in the game.

    In the case of Egypt, a suggestion of substitution: Saqqara should be brought as a unique improvement and the Sphinx of Giza as a wonder.
     
  4. Sostratus

    Sostratus Deity

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    While unique tile improvements are one of the best ways to distinguish civs, I think the early, faith focused ones from release were very underpowered compared to the DLC ones.
    -Kurgan
    -Sphinx
    -Mission
    The Mission's buff in the summer update highlights that firaxis probably realizes some of these need tuning. Scythia is powerful enough, so i suppose we can let the kurgan be.
    Let's look at the Ol' Sphinx:
    +1 Culture (+1 Culture with natural history)
    +1 Faith
    +1 Appeal
    +2 faith if next to world wonder.

    While the wonder-building theme of Egypt is in here with that adjacency bonus, pretty quick into the game, UIs compete with districts, wonders, and farms/mines. What does the Sphinx offer that those don't? Since improvements cost hammers by way of builder charges, even a religious egypt may prefer to simply invest those in more holy sites.
    The stepwell, IMO, is an example of a UI that does everything right:
    +1 food (+1 if next to farm,+1 at professional sports)
    +1 housing (+1 at sanitation)
    +1 faith if next to holy site (+1 faith at feudalism)

    Housing is tough to come by early. The stepwell can give you +2 food and +1 housing- basically 2 early farms- right off the bat. That's huge for growth. And equally important, it gets better at that task as you advance. Pay attention to those 3 upgrades it gets from the tech/civics tree. Remember, it will be competing for tiles with lots of other choices! The Mission, if on a different continent and next to a campus, can end up giving +8 (4 faith 4 science.) Now that's pretty competitive with a farm or mine. The outback station really turns into a gem late game too. I don't think many of those upgrades from the civics tree were in the game in october 2016.

    What does the sphinx get over time? An extra culture point? This is where the power deficit is: it has limited potential. At best, a world wonder will give 3 Sphinx spots for maximum yield- and with wonder spamming limited by terrain, this hampers Egypt's potential sphinx usage. I don't know how popular faith based improvements are amongst players, but potential buffs could include some kind of benefit for wonders and districts next to sphinxes:
    -offering an extra 15% production towards those plopped next to a sphinx.
    -Letting the Sphinx act as an adjacency bonus for districts next to it. (at some point, some Civ should get this)
    -Wonder Tiles gain culture and faith for each adjacent sphinx, sphinxes gain culture and faith for each adjacent wonder. (Possibly only letting the sphinx be built next to wonders, but next to each other, if we buff it like this)

    I think a similar argument extends to some of the city state UIs- they might need a pass through the civics tree to enhance their yields late game, or make them more powerful but more situational. Perhaps the Monastery gets boosts from adjacent luxury resources, etc. They shouldn't be so good that you want to spam them on every tile, but they should be something that make you think "Wow, if i had Suz over that CS, I could really make some powerful UIs right there."

    The historical flavor makes egypt so fun to play in every civ game, but I feel like they just don't have quite enough juice in their UA or LUA, which are passable I guess, but the Sphinx really is a let down. It's one of the most recognizable works of Egypt and we get this. Either buff it, or pull a Civ4 & let egypt build a unique monument, the Obelisk, which gives some extra benefits.
     
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  5. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    Playing as Egypt now, the Sphinx is okay, but I can quickly see it getting outpaced later. I think if it gave +1 culture and +1 faith for each adjacent wonder, that would help. And if it could piggy-back on Nubia's ability, and give +15% production to any district or wonder built next to it, that would further help too. Especially with the limitation that they can't be adjacent to each other, I don't see a problem with them being a little more over-powered than a regular improvement.
     

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