Barr Anti-corruption Investigations

[onejayhawk]

Attorney General William Barr was asked to testify before Congress. During the testimony, he was asked if the FBI had spied on the Trump campaign. In the circumstances, it was well understood that spying is only done on hostile foreign governments and their people. When Barr answered in the affirmative it was a shock. The FBI cannot leagally spy on a US citizen. Moreover, spying on a political campaign is the very worst of the political sins.

Susequently, White House Attorney Emmitt Flood sent a letter to AG Barr detailing a number of failings by the Mueller team and in their report. He instructed Barr to see that it never happened again. In turn, AG Barr
has appointed John Durham, a US Attorney and top-level prosecutor, to look into the origins of the Trump-Russia investigation.

Most likely, the first thing considered will be the application for a FISA warrant to surveil Carter Page, a member of the Trump campaign. The FBI claimed they had reason to believe that Page was coordinating with the Russians to impact the 2016 election. In spite of this allegation, the Mueller report does not suggest any charges against Mr. Page or even discuss the reasons for the allegation in the FISA application. The so-called Steele Dossier was the centerpiece.of their application and the application does not disclose the many shortcomings the document is known to possess.

They're not investigating corruption. They're creating a distraction. What they're doing is corrupt.

(That's not the limerick. That's just something I wanted to say. Gimmie a minute on the limerick.)

This is simply wrong.

What is interesting is that it isn't political in the usual sense. It's a career lawman pissed as hell about people cheating on the process and not being held accountable. If you want a distraction look to Mueller. He could have rendered the same report six months earlier.

Let's be clear that what they're doing is fascism.

Depending on who you mean by they I can agree with this. Here, I would mean the spies. Indeed, if they were spying, I think you would agree as well.

As Hippy says, bring on the popcorn. The first case is straightforward but it could lead to other things. With Cabinet-level people already implicated the big question is who at the White House was running things. In 1985 they were canny enough to keep the President out of the loop.

As a bit of a footnote, Trump and his people are not cooperating with the many new inquiries from the House and elsewhere. They are taking the understandable position of asked-and-answered.

J

 

[Tristan_C]

The FBI cannot leagally spy on a US citizen. Moreover, spying on a political campaign is the very worst of the political sins.

Of course the FBI can do surveillance and investigation of US citizens.

My best idea of the use of the word "spying" is that it's trying to suggest the goals of the surveillance were not in line with the FBI's mission, law enforcement. The means were mostly normal, but the ends were not. If law enforcement was a mere pretext and worse, the warrants were obtained with fabricated material, then this is all sort of a spy game and the real goal was something else, maybe political sabotage. I am not optimistic about criminal charges coming up from the "investigation of the investigation," though. Grossly unethical misconduct is not necessarily illegal. Abuse of power is not necessarily illegal if it is done correctly; which is to say, you make, execute, or follow laws that you can outmaneuver. And there's more: the deep state has effusive support from voters and journalists where attacking Trump is concerned.

The FISA warrant applications will be hard to use. The people most-accountable for the abuse of the dossier— Comey, Brennan, Strzok, and the group of judges in the court— can maintain that they all believed the pee story and there would be no way to prove they are lying. They'll come across as ******s, but unindicted ******s.

Another example. Rosenstein (DOJ) recommends Comey (FBI) be fired. So, Trump fires Comey. Rosenstein agrees that Trump firing Comey can constitute obstruction of justice, and appoints the special counsel and initiates this investigation. Nothing legally actionable here, but nothing sane either.

As a bit of a footnote, Trump and his people are not cooperating with the many new inquiries from the House and elsewhere.

White House sez it already surrendered all of its paperwork and testimonies, and the new inquiries are an effort to dramatize them refusing to do it twice.

 

[Perfection]

Trump views the law as a tool to bludgeon his political opponents and nothing more.

 

[onejayhawk]

Of course the FBI can do surveillance and investigation of US citizens.

My best idea of the use of the word "spying" is that it's trying to suggest the goals of the surveillance were not in line with the FBI's mission, law enforcement. The means were mostly normal, but the ends were not. If law enforcement was a mere pretext and worse, the warrants were obtained with fabricated material, then this is all sort of a spy game and the real goal was something else, maybe political sabotage. I am not optimistic about criminal charges coming up from the "investigation of the investigation," though. Grossly unethical misconduct is not necessarily illegal. Abuse of power is not necessarily illegal if it is done correctly; which is to say, you make, execute, or follow laws that you can outmaneuver. And there's more: the deep state has effusive support from voters and journalists where attacking Trump is concerned.

The FISA warrant applications will be hard to use. The people most-accountable for the abuse of the dossier— Comey, Brennan, Strzok, and the group of judges in the court— can maintain that they all believed the pee story and there would be no way to prove they are lying. They'll come across as ******s, but unindicted ******s.

Another example. Rosenstein (DOJ) recommends Comey (FBI) be fired. So, Trump fires Comey. Rosenstein agrees that Trump firing Comey can constitute obstruction of justice, and appoints the special counsel and initiates this investigation. Nothing legally actionable here, but nothing sane either.

White House sez it already surrendered all of its paperwork and testimonies, and the new inquiries are an effort to dramatize them refusing to do it twice.

Barr elaborated on his use of the term spy. He said that if a foreign government had done it it would be called spying. He was making a clear distinction between spying and legal surveillance.

Trump views the law as a tool to bludgeon his political opponents and nothing more.

There is a certain symmetry I will admit. They put him through two years of hell and now he gets to have their logbooks audited.

J

 

[Wastl]

This is simply wrong.

What is interesting is that it isn't political in the usual sense. It's a career lawman pissed as hell about people cheating on the process and not being held accountable. If you want a distraction look to Mueller. He could have rendered the same report six months earlier.

The amount of effort you put into twisting reality on its head is truly remarkable. This is Pravda-level sorts of propaganda, but no matter how often you get corrected or your lies get disproven, you just bring them back for another round.

 

[Perfection]

They put him through two years of hell

Oh poor Donald has it so rough, I've heard he's reduced to living in public housing

 

[rah]

At least he gets weekend passes.

 

[JollyRoger]

Spying? They were using traditional investigatory and law enforcement techniques

 

[Estebonrober]

Attorney General William Barr was asked to testify before Congress. During the testimony, he was asked if the FBI had spied on the Trump campaign. In the circumstances, it was well understood that spying is only done on hostile foreign governments and their people. When Barr answered in the affirmative it was a shock. The FBI cannot leagally spy on a US citizen. Moreover, spying on a political campaign is the very worst of the political sins.

Susequently, White House Attorney Emmitt Flood sent a letter to AG Barr detailing a number of failings by the Mueller team and in their report. He instructed Barr to see that it never happened again. In turn, AG Barr
has appointed John Durham, a US Attorney and top-level prosecutor, to look into the origins of the Trump-Russia investigation.

Most likely, the first thing considered will be the application for a FISA warrant to surveil Carter Page, a member of the Trump campaign. The FBI claimed they had reason to believe that Page was coordinating with the Russians to impact the 2016 election. In spite of this allegation, the Mueller report does not suggest any charges against Mr. Page or even discuss the reasons for the allegation in the FISA application. The so-called Steele Dossier was the centerpiece.of their application and the application does not disclose the many shortcomings the document is known to possess.


This is simply wrong.

What is interesting is that it isn't political in the usual sense. It's a career lawman pissed as hell about people cheating on the process and not being held accountable. If you want a distraction look to Mueller. He could have rendered the same report six months earlier.


Depending on who you mean by they I can agree with this. Here, I would mean the spies. Indeed, if they were spying, I think you would agree as well.

As Hippy says, bring on the popcorn. The first case is straightforward but it could lead to other things. With Cabinet-level people already implicated the big question is who at the White House was running things. In 1985 they were canny enough to keep the President out of the loop.

As a bit of a footnote, Trump and his people are not cooperating with the many new inquiries from the House and elsewhere. They are taking the understandable position of asked-and-answered.

J

Popcorn seems appropriate for @Old Hippy since he's not watching his own nation burn? Why are you treating this as a spectator sport?

 

[Old Hippy]

Popcorn seems appropriate for @Old Hippy since he's not watching his own nation burn? Why are you treating this as a spectator sport?

because this is a 'gaming' forum?... about Civilization
if you check out my nations election thread
: Australia is having an election and it's going to be very dumb
you would understand why one would treat most politics as a spectator sport... today I am being patriotic and having a democracy snag... instead of popcorn

 

[onejayhawk]

Spying? They were using traditional investigatory and law enforcement techniques

If that was what he meant, would have said so. He used the word spying with full knowledge of the connotations and awareness of the venue. In a recent interview. Barr said, "We're going to find out" if officials, "put their thumb on the scales." Definitely not just traditional investigatory and law enforcement techniques.

Oh poor Donald has it so rough, I've heard he's reduced to living in public housing

What can you expect when he has a temp job?

@Estebonrober Fireworks are coming. What's wrong with popcorn for watching fireworks?

J

 

[JollyRoger]

If that was what he meant, would have said so. He used the word spying with full knowledge of the connotations and awareness of the venue.

J

Exactly. Glad to see I'm not the only to see how off base the AG is.

 

[onejayhawk]

Exactly. Glad to see I'm not the only to see how off base the AG is.

We will soon get to see what USA Durham thinks on the subject.

J

 

[Tristan_C]

Spying? They were using traditional investigatory and law enforcement techniques

...for goals not related to law enforcement, as I said. Thus, "spying."

 

[Estebonrober]

...for goals not related to law enforcement, as I said. Thus, "spying."

Do you mean like Russians hacking into DNC servers and then giving that information to Trump campaign officials through third party channels? I'm pretty sure the old KGB had terminology for this kind of operation. . .

 

[Broken_Erika]

Anyone has anything interesting to say, I'll be at IALS.

I forgot my password there!......(actually, it's in a text file on my old laptops HD, which i can't access at the moment....)

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I forgot my password there!......(actually, it's in a text file on my old laptops HD, which i can't access at the moment....)

I'm sure they have a password recovery option.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I forgot my password there!......(actually, it's in a text file on my old laptops HD, which i can't access at the moment....)

I'm sure they have a password recovery option.

PM @Cutlass

 

[onejayhawk]

Do you mean like Russians hacking into DNC servers and then giving that information to Trump campaign officials through third party channels? I'm pretty sure the old KGB had terminology for this kind of operation. . .

There was a two year investigation about that. It turned out to be a hoax.

I keep thinking about Barr's phrase, " a thumb on the scales." This is not going to be about big things, like email servers or dead soldiers. It's going to be about fudging reports and going where you know you shouldn't. It's going to be about people who cheated on procedure because they never expected to have to make account. It's the death of a thousand cuts.

J

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[brennan]

In other words, these partisan complaints are laughably vague and can only result in helpings of nothingburger?