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[BAT Mod 4.1] Help me earn the title Imperator (Emperor)!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Imp. Knoedel, Jul 15, 2019.

  1. Fish Man

    Fish Man Chieftain

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    @Gumbolt

    I agree with most of what you said but I really do not think cottages are such a big deal here. Sure, plop'em if it's deity. But on emperor? Once he reaches engineering, if it's about 500AD or before, the game is effectively over. There won't be any time to grow most of them to the point where they're better than just plain coast.
     
  2. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Fair enough on open borders. Yes I normally open borders with most AI. If you can see one AI is clearly hated by everyone then this might be the exception. This is just me trying to improve relations with ai asap.

    Yes many a time I have nearly mistaken Lymond for a woman. :lol: He talks too much sport for this to be the case.

    Many different ways to play this game. Yes Fish man has focused more on the economy by building less cities. Having less units and getting GLH. This really helped him. He is 12 techs ahead of you at 150ad and at 40% science nearly at 93 beakers a turn with 20 gold surplus. He already has music!

    Farms can be good if you are whipping and for faster growth where you lack food resources. If your planning the GLH there is less need for cottages everywhere. If your chain irrigating the corn and wheat fair enough but you are 20+ turns away from civil service. Normally you want 100 beakers a turn by 1ad as a minimum. As Fish Man points out cottages take forever to improve. Especially if you lack rivers/flood plains.

    Pre chopping forest is good if you have a use for it. Sometimes I do this for wonders or pre phants rush.. Waiting for maths can be good. 125ad maths is very late but you know this. Chops into HA/treb/pults might of also been good.

    This map commerce is more important than hammers.

    Starting from an earlier save would be good. Focus on commerce, coastal cities and getting GLH earlier. 1ad is very late for GLH. On immortal the Ai would of normally built it by now.
     
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  3. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Knoedel Imperator Satani Filius Augustus Nooborum

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    Civ4ScreenShot0171.JPG

    There, now I have to admit that does look much better. I might even be able to snatch GLH before the AD mark, but I am waiting for some AI to trade me Mathematics to chop those forests into Vienna.

    Academy has been in for a while now as I ran two Scientists in Vienna much earlier and I just researched Aesthetics and shopped around for a few techs.

    Ironically enough this time around I think I will actually need to spam a few Axemen as Brennus has gone into WHEOOHRN mode and it is likely he is preparing war against me this very moment.

    I have so many wonder boosting resources, Gold for Shwedagon, Ivory for Zeus, Marble for Parthenon, doesn't it make more sense to invest hammers into those for failgold than building Research directly even if I do have Alphabet now?

    I'm tempted to go for Literature for the Great Library, but maybe I'm better off heading to Construction or HBR to prepare for Brennus' inevitable attack. Hm, since my good buddy Justinian is trading me Ivory, I might even be able to whip out a few War Elephants...

    I suppose I'm lucky that Brennus was nice enough to found all his cities on flatlands instead of on hills, with the free Guerilla promotion his units get that would make my inevitable conquest of his lands a bit slower.
     

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  4. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    First of all science wise you are doing much better. I would of liked currency before lit but I can see grabbing Glib is important to you. Unit costs down to 3! :)

    The issue with Celts is religion. By adopting a religion it immediately upsets many of the AI. In this case you get a -4 diplo hit with Celts. You have also refused 2 of their requests. He does seem a bit demanding. Same with Zulus. -2 hit for religion.Big damgers from adopting religion on maps. Especially where your neighbour controls the holy city. Ditching Koreans to make friends here could of been good.

    The maths issue is likely Hanging Gardens. AI won't trade techs if they intend to build the wonder.

    I would monitor the Celt's units near your border and consider 2-3 melee units. At present only a spear to worry about. Normally Ai stack units near person they intend to attack.

    Don't be afraid to run research. Once I have alphabet I mostly run research. Most city builds are not worth the hammers. Cancel the galley and warrior build for research.

    Mining that iron is important now. 2 workers for this asap. Will speed up GLH.
     
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  5. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Knoedel Imperator Satani Filius Augustus Nooborum

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    Oh so now all of a sudden I shouldn't have opened borders with everyone immediately. :crazyeye:

    But... I get twice the amount of money from failgold from wonders I have the +100% boosting resources for?
     
  6. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    WTF! Why in the world would anyone think I’m female? :lol::crazyeye:

    My, are these guys crazy?!;)


    Ofc, I’ve always thought IK was a Brony.
     
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  7. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Knoedel Imperator Satani Filius Augustus Nooborum

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    Huzza, this time I completed the Great Lighthouse a whole three turns earlier than in my previous attempt, in 75AD! :lol:
    All in all did still play a little sloppy, I should have been way faster with chopping out a Monument in Ulm to claim that Fish for example. Nevertheless I am now in a much better position than I was in my first attempt.

    I bribed Shaka with Meditation to adopt Buddhism, that should improve relations somewhat. Unfortunately I couldn't convince him to declare any wars, oh well.

    Brennus is the worst enemy of both eastern and western Rome, and then Justinian came along to me, the third Rome, to ask me to cancel all trade relations with the barbaric Celts. Oh well, I guess an Imperator Romanorum gotta do what he gotta do.

    Some AIs would have traded Mathematics to me in exchange for Literature, but I figured I'd rather research Math myself to keep my chances of getting the Great Library high, which I finished just this turn. I also just revolted to Hereditary Rule and Organized Religion.

    Huh, Brennus declared war on Korea after all, not me. And Wang Kon just traded Construction to me, hmmmmm...

    Civ4ScreenShot0172.JPG Civ4ScreenShot0173.JPG Civ4ScreenShot0174.JPG

    Okay, so here's my plan for the near future:

    I have all the pieces needed for an Elepult war (thanks in no small part to, ironically enough, Byzantium, which has been supplying me with Elephants for quite some time already), so that's what I will prepare for momentarily. All the cities with Buddhism, my state religion, will whip a Stable followed by Elephants, all other cities with more than 3 population will whip Catapults.

    Let me check the math, assuming rapid (though of course not cold i.e. 0 hammers invested) 2-pop whips for every build starting immediately:

    Aachen: 10 pop = 1 Stable + 4 Elephants
    Vienna: 6 pop = 1 Stable + 2 Elephants
    Prague: 6 pop = 1 Stable + 2 Elephants
    Augsburg: 6 pop = 3 Catapults
    Nuremberg: 6 pop = 1 Barracks +2 Catapults

    All in all that makes at least 8 Elephants and 5 Catapults. I can probably chop out a few more in Prague, Augsburg, and Vienna.

    Considering Brennus is currently at war with Korea and his closest city to me is as of this moment only defended by two measly Archers, that should probably suffice for a first wave to take Verlamion and Tolosa at the very least.

    As for research, I'll try to nab the Music Great Artist and then head for Civil Service I think. Unfortunately I see no easy way to get a Great Engineer to bulb Engineering. Maybe I could try hiring an engineer in all relevant cities during the Golden Age in addition to other specialists and hope for the RNG to help me along?

    Ah well, one way or another I think my odds of winning are pretty good now.

    This is probably as good a time as any to discuss potential Great General shenanigans to make good use of my Imperialistic powers:

    You know what I'm thinking of? A Protective boosted Super Medic! That's right, I'm gonna turn an Archer into a Super Medic! And I'm not just saying Medic III, oh no, I have bigger plans! I'm talking MedicIII+WoodsmanIII!
    Of course, he'll have to be upgraded to a Rifleman or Grenadier to be eligible for Woodsman, so this is more of a long-term plan, but I have done the math:

    All I need to do is get an Archer to 7XP, then I can use two GGs to get him up to 37 which is precisely the amount of XP required for six promotions: Woodsman 1-3 and Medic 1-3, which, I have checked, is enabled by Drill 1.

    Another wacky use for a GG would be creating a CG3+Drill4 Longbow super defender.

    Ah but all this is getting ahead of ourselves...

    Edit:

    But... I am one? Now I'm just confused. :confused: I suppose such is the nature of gender in the 21st century. :lol:
     

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  8. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    I think some Elepults could work here on Brennus for some expansion. He appears far from Feud..and even so they can still work against LBs.

    Not sure why you are teching Drama. Just go straight for music. Your beaker OF went into Drama as well which is kind of a waste.

    Yep, a couple of quick stables are ok. Splitting the empire to have some cities focus on Elies while others build cats is good. You don't really even need barracks for Cats. Remember, speed can be more important than promotions. Especially with potential to catch Brennus with his pants down fighting Wang.

    I assume Ulm has a culture building now, so make sure a new work boat is ready to net Fish immediately if you haven't built one already.

    I don't really like the idea of a medic archer. You don't want a medic with so much defense potential. I use Woody III a lot though, but usually use a warrior for that ..who got some of Woody early from barb kills. If not, just go with a cheap chariot medic. Or even your scout if he still lives.

    So here's another important tip with Currency now. Each turn keep tabs on techs, by check trades with each AI against their techs and their gold. This is a good way to tell if an AI is teching something. If they are consider getting their gold. Or in the case of Wang, I might want to get that 280g now by trading HBR for it.

    War with Brennus I think is the plan. Again, just for perspective, all this really ..in general...should have come much earlier but you had some challenges here with research.

    Also, soon after Music you will want to consider a Golden Age for great scientists generation. The challenge here is that you are in war mode now with whipping and stuff, but at some point you will want to focus growth as much as possible in cities with food so that you can run as many scientists as possible. This is for the Lib path.

    After Music, Civil Service should be your goal via CoL. You can time your golden age for a civic switch at that time.
     
  9. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    The AI has 8 gold a turn for trade for resources. Free gold!
    Why tech drama? You want music for free great artist. I rarely ever tech drama.
    Stables will be useful for cuirs.
    If you want fail gold try using Vienna.
    Consider gold for techs from AI Especially over 100-200.

    I think pults have limited use for now. AI will soon have longbow. For which phants and maybe trebs would be better. Maybe wait for cuirs? Your UU requires engineering.

    The minute you attack Brennus any stack he has will head for you.His 2 border cities are very poor. His corn/cow city will lose the corn to Justin when you capture it. Ultimately you want vassals from war. Celts are very backwards here. As a minimum war should be about capping him and taking his capital. Biggest danger is him becoming a larger AI vassal! Will likely vassal to French so make a demand from them. Even when you make peace he will vassal. If you plan war second city to capture is his capital. You will need to add the 3-4 axes to your stack to protect against spears.

    Yes chop the remaining forest for units.

    Protective archer medics are no good. You want a 2mp supermedic. Scouts are good for this.

    The great artist might of been an opportunity to do a golden age and try to grab 3-4 G scientists.

    Wait a minute Lymond thought you were male? What self respecting man has a picture of a lady on a unicorn? Not that I pay any attention to avatars on here.
     
  10. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Wait, IK is female?!!! This is revelatory!!! :lol:
     
  11. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Knoedel Imperator Satani Filius Augustus Nooborum

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    I figured I could use Drama to speed up both Music and later Philosophy.
     
  12. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Knoedel Imperator Satani Filius Augustus Nooborum

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    Too lazy for a screenshot right now, here's the current save. I'm in the middle of a Golden Age right now and just got a Great Scientist. Also, I just founded Taoism.

    I guess I should bulb the GS into Education, yes? Should I play it safe and get Nationalism with Liberalism or should I research Nationalism myself and get Military Tradition directly with Lib?

    In Vienna, which built the Great Lighthouse, I'm running Merchants instead of Scientists to keep the GPP pool pure. I figure I could use a Great Merchant for a Great Mission later on to get the money inta-upgrade all my Elephants into Cuirassiers the moment I get MT. Does that sound like a good strategy?
     

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  13. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    First of all the war seems to be going well. His capital should fall easily. Maybe 1 turn bombard and then attack.

    However...... War and golden ages don't mix! You want size 9-10 cities that can spam scientists. You want to run 5-6 scientists in 2-3 cities. Ideally in bud cities.

    Right now you have just whipped all your cities and are running a golden age. Ideally you would of used pacifism too albeit not good when you are at war. (Unit cost.)

    You are trying to do everything and failing on the bits you are not ready for. Have you built national epic yet? That would really help during a golden age for great people. Your Great Library city should also be size 9-10 so it can get a great person too.

    I have no idea how you are facing barb galleys. Where are they coming from? Is the coast not fully covered in culture?
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
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  14. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Knoedel Imperator Satani Filius Augustus Nooborum

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    Hey wait a minute, you people told me to beeline CS and trigger the Golden Age for Bureaucracy in the first place!
     
  15. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Sometimes we mix signals on advice when you are planning one thing ...war...and we are giving basic or general advice on mechanics or strategies. I did caveat my earlier advice if I recall..something about growing before a golden age. The point is that that Music great artist is good for a golden age...often timed with the big civic switches, including temporary Caste System and Pacifism if you have it. I often bulb pacifism which is another point on the diversion of Drama earlier.

    I mean your logic is not bad on the Drama bonus to Music and Philo, but often it is not worth the diversion. It is more about what you get now. Anyway, things are often relative or situational, so sometimes advice - mine or others are not always suited to a players current situation - but in a general sense it can give you an idea on how to plan or pursue certain strategies that work well on higher levels.

    Also, I recall you were building a Jewish missionary when you are in Bud. Seems that would be better to spread, especially for Paci bonus.

    Anyway, it really comes down to taking the advice and making it work for you and practicing it. Your turnsets are rather long so many things can be missed. along the way or recommendations may change over the course of many turns.

    The good thing here is I think you are learning some new things, and hopefully breaking some bad habits as well..at least some of them. You are still in a good position here and should have no problem winning this game. It's all stuff you can build on.

    And regardless of cross signals here or one guy giving advice now as opposed to another stupid bloke like me giving advice earlier, is that all of it is pretty solid advice that you can build on...so I recommend taking it as that for now.

    The overall pace here is astonishing slow even for Emperor in terms of what the AIs are doing, but regardless of what may have been done better along the way, you've still put yourself in a pretty solid position for this game.

    Curious, are you automating workers at all? I'm still puzzled by some of the roading stuff going on here like down on the ice and..well.. most everywhere, when there is so much for worker to do. One of the keys to moving up difficulty is mastering worker management. It one of the key things to learn really.
     
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  16. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Knoedel Imperator Satani Filius Augustus Nooborum

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    I figured an additional Monastery in the capital or Great Library city couldn't hurt, no?

    Nope, I'm micromanaging each and every last one of them. :lol:

    What would you have the workers do now? I figure the only thing they really need to do now is irrigate Vienna's Wheat and chop some leftover forests.
     
  17. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    I almost always take Drama before Music.
    When we look at how much Music costs, a 20% bonus makes Drama really not that expensive.
    AIs often ignore it, and has great trade value usually.
     
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  18. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Knoedel Imperator Satani Filius Augustus Nooborum

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    Barb Galley came from the southwest somewhere, from beyond Byzantine borders.

    I haven't built the NE yet, I was busy whipping troops and before that building the Great Library.

    Anyway, I played a whopping two more turns because I'm unsure how to proceed with research. I just finished researching Paper and I have a Great Scientist lying around with whom I can bulb a bit more than half of Education. The question is... should I do so right now? I could go straight for Liberalism, but considering how far ahead of the AIs I am, maybe I should research Nationalism first so I can then pick Military Tradition as free tech?
     

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  19. Olafeson

    Olafeson Chieftain

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    Best advice to win a game on emperor difficulty? Go and watch a youtube video series of "Lain Civ 4 Deity". After you watched one or two games, emperor difficulty should not be a big deal anymore.
     
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  20. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Hmmm..well no adjustments appeared to be made. I should of recommended that you replay the golden age using Paci...maybe get at least a second GS.

    Why is Aachen starving? Only reason it might be doing that is to run specialists during the golden age, but never take of the corn. Nurnburg should be running more scientists.

    Don't build Archers.

    Anyway, hypothetically, what you could have done here if you had at least a couple of GS or 3, is part or full bulb Edu. Or part bulb Edu, tech Compass, and part bulb Liberalism after Edu. Then tech Nationalism and Lib MT.

    Another thing to note is that bulb value increases with tech rate which increases during a Golden Age, ofc. Depending on timings of things, I may wait toward the end of the Golden Age to max that bulb value before bulbing stuff, usually getting the other techs I need like Compass. Try to keep slider maxxed as much as possible as well as that factors into the bulb value over time during the Golden Age. Ofc, that is dependent on Gold. Do your bulb before Golden Age completes that as research rate will drop, as will the bulb value. (you can check bulb value on the GS each turn to see what I mean)

    You can beg 100g off of Justy.

    You don't really need a Monument in Verl. Queue up a unit like a Cat. Run full specialists with all citizens (it's gonna starve regardless)..with just enough artists to pop borders, the rest probably merchants for the gold. Then whip Cat next turn. (edit: well..after you switch back to slavery)

    You could take the wine you are giving Byz and get spice from Rome.

    You never focused your EPs on Justy.

    Take Bibs next turn if you continue from current save.

    Prague and Pisa really need farms over cottages.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
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