Bathrooms, bathrooms, bathrooms!?!

[GinandTonic]

The lack of context as to what is meant by a bathroom continues to bother me. My house is currently arranged as two flats. Two kitchens, two living rooms, two bathrooms. There is a toilet on the half way landing in the stairs. The bathrooms could be smallish bedrooms. The toilet could be a largish cupboard. Just not comparable assets.

The separate toilet is nice if someone knows they are about to perpetrate a toilet crime, or thinks it might take long enough to require a book and/ or cigarette.

 

[warpus]

To legally be a bedroom, it has to have both a closet and a window (I learned this when apartment hunting and checked out someone listing a bedroom that was really a den - dens don't legally have to have a window).

But converting rooms isn't that hard. Closets are portable these days, and the built-in kind can be used for other things. The closet in the bedroom I'm in right now is taken up by several of those dark brown 3-drawer dressers made of sturdy plastic, with a long board from an old display shelf system on top of them. On top of the board is 4 miniature bookshelves and some miniature plastic stacking crates. I keep clothes in the drawers and books in the shelves. There's still room in the closet for a corner shelf and to hang up my fall and winter coats. The sliding door is permanently open.

I think most houses these days at least are designed so that every single room (that isn't a bathroom, diningroom, livingroom, or kitchen) has a window, so that it can be used as a bedroom. That way the seller can maximize what is charged for the house, since # of bedrooms is a factor in how much you can charge or whatever.

I didn't know about the closet requirement, but from what I've seen the vast majority of rooms that have windows also seem to have a closet of some sort. I actually dislike the closets. I like walk in closets, but my office (that used to be a bedroom) having a closet is annoying. I'd have to do some work to it to convert it to something useful. It has one shelf which is sort of useful but the rest is useless to me. I put boxes in there.

The lack of context as to what is meant by a bathroom continues to bother me. My house is currently arranged as two flats. Two kitchens, two living rooms, two bathrooms. There is a toilet on the half way landing in the stairs. The bathrooms could be smallish bedrooms. The toilet could be a largish cupboard. Just not comparable assets.

The separate toilet is nice if someone knows they are about to perpetrate a toilet crime, or thinks it might take long enough to require a book and/ or cigarette.

Here in Canada any room with at least a toilet, bathtub, or shower would be called a bathroom. A room with only a sink wouldn't.

Your under-the-stairs toilet room would count as a bathroom.

In terms of branding, when it comes time to try to sell, some of these rooms would count as half a bathroom or bath or whatever.

 

[amadeus]

In Rocky and Bullwinkle style, I propose a secondary title of “Talkin’ ‘Bout Terlets”

In my adult life I’ve only ever had one bathroom, once zero. Communal terlets and showers. I was looking for work and the place was cheap enough for me to live on with just my savings.

I really can’t conceive of needing more than two, ever. Bigger house, more stuff to clean and take care of.

One other thing, the terlet, vanity, and bath are often totally separate in this country and to me that makes a lot of sense—why should I be denied access to two-thirds of essential services when only one is occupied? Seems like American bathrooms were designed by somebody with some kind of power fixation, that they and only they may use all the precious facilities.

 

[warpus]

It indeed does feel uncivilized to take a relaxing bath right beside a toilet. However, the rest I don't really get. After pooping you probably want to wash your hands and need access to soap and other such things, so it seems that toilets & sinks/vanities being in the same room make sense.

I think the sorts of people who have more than 3-4 bathrooms in their house hire people to clean them or are clean freaks and don't mind the extra work.

The way north north american (canada + usa) homes seem to be traditionally designed, there is usually a bathroom by the front door somewhere, which is where guests usually go to do their business or freshen up or whatever. Then you usually get 1 bathroom per floor sort of deal, for every additional floor, and one in the basement, assuming it's finished.. and then an optional ensuite bathroom for the master bedroom, because the masters of the house are special and need their own toilet to poop in.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Bathroom count and placement are heavily dependent upon when the house was build and if it has been remodeled yet.

 

[Quintillus]

I wasn't going to comment on this earlier, but my inner Stannis Baratheon couldn't help but notice warpus writing, "I haven't looked at enough real estate in Europe to really see any patterns but I think I've noticed less bathrooms overall, generally speaking.", and later Gelion asking, "Less bathrooms? You guys get more than one?" In both cases, the word less should be fewer. The number of bathrooms is a countable object, so fewer is the correct word to use.

I agree with warpus on it making sense to have the toilet and vanity in the same room, generally speaking. I once lived in a place where toilet/sink/shower were all in separate rooms, and I always thought, why do you have to spread germs to the door to the toilet before you can wash your hands? Keep them in the same room, spread fewer germs. The shower/tub being separate makes more sense, as those will often be occupied for longer. Although you'd still need the extra space to have a separate door; in my current place the only way you could do that was to convert the tub to a shower and remove the linen closet. Not a great trade in a 1 bedroom apartment; the place I lived with everything separate was a student apartment for 4 residents with one bath, so separating things out made more sense.

One of my favorite features of my new place is that it has a nook between the coat closet and the kitchen that is just the right size for my two bookshelves.

In my mind's eye, I am now picturing penguins waddling around Valka's home, along with Maddy the cat, and them happily getting along with each other. I'm pretty sure she didn't mean living, breathing penguins, rather some artistic representation of them, but with the flow of the conversation that's where my mind went. And if people really do keep penguins as pets in Alberta, I'll have to make a trip up there at some point.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I wasn't going to comment on this earlier, but my inner Stannis Baratheon couldn't help but notice warpus writing, "I haven't looked at enough real estate in Europe to really see any patterns but I think I've noticed less bathrooms overall, generally speaking.", and later Gelion asking, "Less bathrooms? You guys get more than one?" In both cases, the word less should be fewer. The number of bathrooms is a countable object, so fewer is the correct word to use.

I agree with warpus on it making sense to have the toilet and vanity in the same room, generally speaking. I once lived in a place where toilet/sink/shower were all in separate rooms, and I always thought, why do you have to spread germs to the door to the toilet before you can wash your hands? Keep them in the same room, spread fewer germs. The shower/tub being separate makes more sense, as those will often be occupied for longer. Although you'd still need the extra space to have a separate door; in my current place the only way you could do that was to convert the tub to a shower and remove the linen closet. Not a great trade in a 1 bedroom apartment; the place I lived with everything separate was a student apartment for 4 residents with one bath, so separating things out made more sense.

I cannot fathom not having a sink in the same room as the toilet. Not to have a setup so you can wash ASAP is disgusting.

One of my favorite features of my new place is that it has a nook between the coat closet and the kitchen that is just the right size for my two bookshelves.

Two bookshelves? The last time I had only two bookshelves was in the mid-'70s, when I had one for my science fiction books and the other for my Alfred Hitchcock and The Three Investigators books.

The room I'm sitting in right now has 14 bookshelves, of varying sizes and dimensions. There are many, many more.

In my mind's eye, I am now picturing penguins waddling around Valka's home, along with Maddy the cat, and them happily getting along with each other. I'm pretty sure she didn't mean living, breathing penguins, rather some artistic representation of them, but with the flow of the conversation that's where my mind went. And if people really do keep penguins as pets in Alberta, I'll have to make a trip up there at some point.

It's actually a good thing the penguins here aren't living and breathing, because for one thing, some penguin species (ie. Adelie) have a tendency to be rather bad-tempered (kinda like geese). You do NOT want to get in their way.

For two things, penguins are smelly, as anyone would be if they were constantly walking around in their own organic waste (I forget which species actually makes their nests of penguin guano).

So I admire them from a distance, and my collection is made of penguins from a variety of species, in an assortment of plush, ceramic, wood, crystal, plastic, resin, fabric, paper, metal, and so on.

It's illegal to have them as pets here, since they're wild animals and need specific conditions in which to live (temperature being paramount; I know we have winter for half the year, but it fluctuates between being far too warm for penguin comfort and cold enough that the "Penguin Walk" at the Calgary Zoo is canceled - and of course there's nothing in the wild here for them to eat, as Alberta is a landlocked province. It's a 2-day drive to the nearest ocean, which is actually too warm for penguins anyway).

 

[Quintillus]

Only two! I've moved twice in the past year, so moving 14 bookshelves' worth of books would be a pain. I love the idea of having a room full of books, but need to have more certainty around living somewhere for a long time before adding any more bookshelves.

My goodness, it's been a few years at least since I visited the zoo, but yes, the penguin area is always one of if not the smelliest areas at the local zoo. They're cute, for sure, but I'm happy to let them stay at the zoo and in the far southern hemisphere. Your assortment sounds much preferable for one in a house!

I like that this thread has encouraged household discussion in general as well. That's something I haven't seen much of at CFC. But back on the main topic, I am not sure if I agree with warpus that most North American houses have a bathroom somewhere near the front door. Some do, to be sure. But thinking over houses that I've been to, a lot of them don't have a bathroom particularly close to the front door. In one of my friend's houses, there's one not super far away but you have to go through the main room. In both of my grandparents' houses, the first-floor bathroom was towards the back of the floor. In my parents house, the entry-level-floor is the one floor without a bathroom. In another friend's parents' house, the entry-level-floor bathroom goes between an office that's off of the main entryway and another hallway farther back (it's sort of weird, yeah, that means it has two doors you have to close and lock if people are over). There are some with a bathroom near the front area, but I'd place them in the "newer, or expecting to have an above-average number of guests" categories.

In apartments, one thing I look for is that if it's a 1 bed/1 bath, or 2 bed/1 bath, the bath should preferably not be captive. I remember one friend's former apartment had a layout where to get to the bathroom, you had to walk through the bedroom and a walk-in closet, with clothes hanging on both sides of the walk-in closet. I don't know if that's why she rarely invited company over despite often being available to attend social gatherings elsewhere, but she didn't renew the lease after a year, and started having company over more frequently the following year.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I've been sometimes killing time by looking at real estate in various places, partially for fun, partially to see what's out there, partially as a new sort of special interest. It's not like I'm going to be able to afford a $4 million house in Toronto, but I will look at it and see why it's worth that much compared to the rest of the market. It's also fascinating to look at the very cheapest properties to see where the market's at. Also fun to then look at houses in Germany or Norway or Manhattan and compare standards and prices and differences in design and pricing, market sensibilities, etc. Occasionally I even look at the market I live in, but that's more boring. I seem to be drawn to more exotic listings. Anyhow, with that out of the way..

Let's say that the following question assumes that I am looking at detached homes only.

Over time I've noticed that cheaper homes obviously have less bathrooms, but that as homes increase in value, you sort of get a steady increase in bedrooms and bathrooms. So if you pick some random homes in north american markets, you might end up with a progression like this: 2 bedrooms 1 bathroom, 3 bedrooms 2 bathrooms, 5 bedrooms 4 bathrooms, 7 bedroom 6 bathrooms, etc. It's not uncommon to also find stuff like 6 bedrooms 6 bathrooms, 5 bedrooms 6 bathrooms, etc.

My question is.. Why do the bathrooms keep up to the number of bedrooms on a seemingly linear progression? In fact, the more expensive a house is and the more bedrooms it has, there is a point beyond which the bathrooms seem to increase in quantity even faster, as with some of my examples.

I am sort of used to a house having 1 bathroom per floor max plus potentially a special bathroom for the master bedroom. But as you keep adding bedrooms to this arrangements, where are all these bathrooms coming from? Why do you need 7 bathrooms if you have 7 bedrooms? I mean, more bedrooms does imply more family members living there or whatever, but it just seems like 1 bathroom per 3 bedrooms or so should be enough. Yet for whatever reason those who build houses are obsessed with cramming in as many bathrooms as possible.

I have 3 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms in my house, and there is a bathroom per each level. That seems reasonable - you don't want to have to run up or down stairs during a diarrhea attack. The only reason there is a bathroom in the basement is that it's a finished basement, so naturally that requires a bathroom. YET there has never been a time when all three bathrooms were all occupied at the same time. Two at the same time probably happens 2-4 times a year.

It seems crazy that as you add a bedroom to this arrangement, that you will want a bathroom for each bedroom you add. Yet that is what architects seem to be designing. Do they think rich people have pooping problems? Or where do such standards originate? Is this a north american thing? Are things differently in Europe? I haven't looked at enough real estate in Europe to really see any patterns but I think I've noticed less bathrooms overall, generally speaking.

In the US, adding a bathroom(s) is the most reliable way to increase the "fair market value" of a home.

 

[warpus]

I wasn't going to comment on this earlier, but my inner Stannis Baratheon couldn't help but notice warpus writing, "I haven't looked at enough real estate in Europe to really see any patterns but I think I've noticed less bathrooms overall, generally speaking.", and later Gelion asking, "Less bathrooms? You guys get more than one?" In both cases, the word less should be fewer. The number of bathrooms is a countable object, so fewer is the correct word to use.

Technically, but English is always evolving and these days the word literally even means two things - literally and its exact opposite. The same thing happened to "fewer" and the same thing happened to the word "may". Technically "Can I have some apples?" is not grammatically correct, but now.. well, it is. "May I have some applies" is what used to be correct, but now you can say either.

This post has nothing to do with bathrooms, but let's say that it does.

 

[lymond]

This post has nothing to do with bathrooms, but let's say that it does.

Ok..I say it does cause your logic is in the toilet

Technically "Can I have some apples?" is not grammatically correct, but now.. well, it is. "May I have some applies" is what used to be correct, but now you can say either.

"Can" in that context is considered rude regardless of technical correctness. "Can I have...blah balh" is probably the most corrected statement when one is young. Adults replying "Can you?". That and the whole "Me and blah" vs. "Blah and I" in the preposition. (ha...when I was young and speaking to Grandfather, I would often say something like "Me and Granddaddy....". Granddaddy would laugh and reply "Mean ole Granddaddy".

 

[The_J]

I once lived in a place where toilet/sink/shower were all in separate rooms, and I always thought, why do you have to spread germs to the door to the toilet before you can wash your hands? Keep them in the same room, spread fewer germs.

I cannot fathom not having a sink in the same room as the toilet. Not to have a setup so you can wash ASAP is disgusting.

While I fully agree, my current place doesn't have a sink next to the toilet either.
Luckily I live alone, so the solution is to just not close the door ^^.

 

[Sofista]

But how many true bathrooms are really available, which distinguish themselves from a railway station lavatory?

No bidet, no bathroom. It's as simple as that.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

But how many true bathrooms are really available, which distinguish themselves from a railway station lavatory?

No bidet, no bathroom. It's as simple as that.

So if you really desperately had to go and there was no bidet, what would you do?

 

[GinandTonic]

Here in Canada any room with at least a toilet, bathtub, or shower would be called a bathroom. A room with only a sink wouldn't.

Your under-the-stairs toilet room would count as a bathroom.

I understand that. I was hoping people would clarify what they meant when they were describing houses.

Incidentally, in the UK using a euphemism is considered... Prissy? Affected? Something that people who want to sound posh say, but that people who are posh don't say.

 

[Sofista]

So if you really desperately had to go and there was no bidet, what would you do?

There's always toilet paper. Hopefully at least three plies.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

There's always toilet paper. Hopefully at least three plies.

You'd have hated communal bathrooms in medieval times, unless you had your own stuff that you brought every time.

BTW... some people in the SCA can take authenticity a little too far, thus prompting a safety warning: Don't use a candle for light when you're visiting the outhouse/biffy at camping events. It can sometimes lead to accidentally setting yourself on fire.

There's authenticity and there's common sense. I opted for common sense and always carried a small flashlight with me after dark. Yes, some people complained. But then I didn't trip over the tent someone pitched too close to the path, and I never risked the above-mentioned incident that happened to someone else at that event.

 

[Sofista]

You'd have hated communal bathrooms in medieval times, unless you had your own stuff that you brought every time.

Today, in my small town, it's a characteristic remnant of the past (I'm specifically talking about the small wooden structure to the center-left).

Seen through historical lenses, it was a place where people went to when they had to, and left their messes to be taken care of by town authorities.

Standards just evolve with time, I guess (and I used communal bathrooms all through my teenage years).

 

[warpus]

Ok..I say it does cause your logic is in the toilet

It's just the way languages work. English especially seems to evolve faster over time than other languages.. although I suppose Polish has changed quite a bit over the last 15 years due to the influence of English specifically (and new technology that needed a new name, and English providing a popular option right off the bat)

One of my dreams is to one day own a proper Japanese toilet. When I first encountered them on my trip to Japan it kind of blew my mind.. So many buttons.. what do all of them do?? I tried some out, but wasn't brave enough to press more than a couple that seemed semi-obvious.

Heated seats, oh my. They feel so nice! The other conveniences that I liked won't be described here due to their buttholeness.

When I returned to Canada, after about 3 and a half weeks of enjoying Japanese style bathrooms, I was soooo disappointed when I walked into my bathroom here at home. I looked down at my toilet and it just seemed so.. uncivilized. All it is is a porcelain bowl with some plastic on top. Sitting down on it made me feel like a filthy animal.

Western toilet standards are wayyyyy behind the times. One day I will import a proper Japanese toilet and have it flown over here and get it properly installed. I could buy something here, but I haven't been able to find the exact sort of setup that is so common in that country. Maybe I didn't look hard enough, but it seems that if you want a proper Japanese style toilet you might very well have to buy it in Japan.

One day.. I will poop in style again.

 

[lymond]

warp - I couldn't help but think of this hilarious SNL commercial spoof. I wonder if one of the Japanese toilet buttons performs this function - you almost pressed it!