Be very careful with events.

[Blackthorn27]

I can't believe this. I'm just about to cream Peter from Russia when up pops an event saying something about their guys showing compassion towards my injured guys on the battlefield. The event gives me two options - a no good deed goes unpunished and a +1 relationship point with Pete if I let my emissaries go to DISCUSS signing a peace treaty with Russia. So I'm thinking okay I don't want to be cruel and maybe that +1 relationship point will persuade Pete to hand over some of his techs because he's way ahead of me and he must know he's beat.

Above all, I did NOT want to sign a peace treaty. But that's what this darn events thing just did. Aaaaah! That's not what it said it was going to do. All I was expecting was a +1 relationship point. Now he's still doing Vassalage and has ten turns to pump out promoted units which are advanced anyway compared to mine. This could be fatal!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Just wait until you realize that the game downright lies to you about AI diplo toward each other and takes factors into account that are important from gameplay terms but not documented anywhere but through careful XML/code checking .

 

[bestbrian]

Just wait until you realize that the game downright lies to you about AI diplo toward each other and takes factors into account that are important from gameplay terms but not documented anywhere but through careful XML/code checking .

Don't be a tease. Could you elaborate upon this please?

 

[Joshua368]

I can't believe this. I'm just about to cream Peter from Russia when up pops an event saying something about their guys showing compassion towards my injured guys on the battlefield. The event gives me two options - a no good deed goes unpunished and a +1 relationship point with Pete if I let my emissaries go to DISCUSS signing a peace treaty with Russia. So I'm thinking okay I don't want to be cruel and maybe that +1 relationship point will persuade Pete to hand over some of his techs because he's way ahead of me and he must know he's beat.

Above all, I did NOT want to sign a peace treaty. But that's what this darn events thing just did. Aaaaah! That's not what it said it was going to do. All I was expecting was a +1 relationship point. Now he's still doing Vassalage and has ten turns to pump out promoted units which are advanced anyway compared to mine. This could be fatal!

I made the same mistake when I first got that event. No big deal, just reload the autosave to the same turn and choose the other option.

 

[Unionfield]

I can't believe this. I'm just about to cream Peter from Russia when up pops an event saying something about their guys showing compassion towards my injured guys on the battlefield. The event gives me two options - a no good deed goes unpunished and a +1 relationship point with Pete if I let my emissaries go to DISCUSS signing a peace treaty with Russia. So I'm thinking okay I don't want to be cruel and maybe that +1 relationship point will persuade Pete to hand over some of his techs because he's way ahead of me and he must know he's beat.

Above all, I did NOT want to sign a peace treaty. But that's what this darn events thing just did. Aaaaah! That's not what it said it was going to do. All I was expecting was a +1 relationship point. Now he's still doing Vassalage and has ten turns to pump out promoted units which are advanced anyway compared to mine. This could be fatal!

You must not have been "creaming" Russia. That event only pops up as a 2.5% chancer when the AI you are at war with possesses a 100-point or greater military superiority.

 

[Blackthorn27]

You must not have been "creaming" Russia. That event only pops up as a 2.5% chancer when the AI you are at war with possesses a 100-point or greater military superiority.

Maybe that's true in relation to how advanced the opponent's military is, techwise, but at the turn when the cease fire I didn't want to happen happened, my overwhelming lead in terms of numbers of units is giving me twice Russia's current military strength on the Power graph and is allowing me to take Russia's cities with ease - Pete's only got 3 cities left. There's no doubt Russia is (was?) at my mercy.

 

[Agent327]

If you want to 'cream' him, why not just run him over despite the peace treaty?

 

[nNemethon]

If you want to 'cream' him, why not just run him over despite the peace treaty?

That tends to make the other Civ's very distrustful of you and they talk in whispers in corners while pointing at you. It also tends to make them form defensive alliances more readily against you and also, if you do it oo many times, essentially when you go to war again, many other Civ's will join in meaning you face a ratehr uphill battle.

 

[Charonicus]

You must not have been "creaming" Russia. That event only pops up as a 2.5% chancer when the AI you are at war with possesses a 100-point or greater military superiority.

Oh really? (O rly? *owlface*) Is this just unit numbers? Because I had this pop up while my modern armour were crushing Caesar's vast empire of riflemen/cavalry. I had a clear military advantage considering I completely wiped him out and took over his land, but until about halfway his power rating was higher than mine. I suspect it may have been possible to be 'creaming' Russia and yet have the game think you are behind.

EDIT: Forgot to mention. The result of that event is always peace and you gain a +1 "Past events" bonus. Pity these eventually wear off.

 

[FriendoftheDork]

That event is poorly worded, and I also did the same mistake. The "workaround" is easy though, dont repeat the mistake.

You can't break a peace treaty... period.

And I can confirm that the AI does not need tech advantage in order for the event to pop up. The same event can even ocurr between two AIs.

 

[Wolfshanze]

I can't believe this. I'm just about to cream Peter from Russia when up pops an event saying something about their guys showing compassion towards my injured guys on the battlefield. The event gives me two options - a no good deed goes unpunished and a +1 relationship point with Pete if I let my emissaries go to DISCUSS signing a peace treaty with Russia. So I'm thinking okay I don't want to be cruel and maybe that +1 relationship point will persuade Pete to hand over some of his techs because he's way ahead of me and he must know he's beat.

Above all, I did NOT want to sign a peace treaty. But that's what this darn events thing just did. Aaaaah! That's not what it said it was going to do. All I was expecting was a +1 relationship point. Now he's still doing Vassalage and has ten turns to pump out promoted units which are advanced anyway compared to mine. This could be fatal!

I ALWAYS say "thankyou" and rush my returned troops back to battle... why would you want better relations with someone you're about to wipe the map with anyways?

I actually see that event all the time.

 

[Mesodius]

I just read this thread yesterday and thought "huh, I've never had that event", then today I was beating up on Hannibal and I actually got it. It's worded poorly, and had I not read this thread yesterday I would have accidentally made peace with him when I wanted to continue the war. So thanks, Blackthorn.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Don't be a tease. Could you elaborate upon this please?

There are diplo modifiers the game doesn't display, such as "warmonger respect" between AIs with a similar peaceweight. I lost a LHC game because 3 civs voted for Inca, and yet two were only displayed as pleased at +5 net diplo! I had a higher displayed diplo rating with them, but the hidden modifiers overtook that and gave me a surprise loss when there was no reason to expect one without delving deep into the code (if one trusted the manual, civlopedia, or any non-xml source, they'd have thought I had that game in the bag).

Then there's the ponderous AI capitulation mechanics. They add their vassals power when considering whether to capitulate, but they don't add YOURS. Also, they look at their power vs the average power of all civs...so if you leave a 2-3 city vassal of YOURS somewhere, the guy won't capitulate, but if you simply razed those cities he would! But but but...if he's a "land target" to someone else at war with him, then that power factors in and may get you a capitulation.

Sound bizarre? But that's how it is...I learned because I got screwed, questioned about it, and got help from DanF.

 

[Unionfield]

Maybe that's true in relation to how advanced the opponent's military is, techwise, but at the turn when the cease fire I didn't want to happen happened, my overwhelming lead in terms of numbers of units is giving me twice Russia's current military strength on the Power graph and is allowing me to take Russia's cities with ease - Pete's only got 3 cities left. There's no doubt Russia is (was?) at my mercy.

This was satire, by the way. I'm a funny guy, a jokester... ha ha! HA!

 

[bestbrian]

There are diplo modifiers the game doesn't display, such as "warmonger respect" between AIs with a similar peaceweight. I lost a LHC game because 3 civs voted for Inca, and yet two were only displayed as pleased at +5 net diplo! I had a higher displayed diplo rating with them, but the hidden modifiers overtook that and gave me a surprise loss when there was no reason to expect one without delving deep into the code (if one trusted the manual, civlopedia, or any non-xml source, they'd have thought I had that game in the bag).

Then there's the ponderous AI capitulation mechanics. They add their vassals power when considering whether to capitulate, but they don't add YOURS. Also, they look at their power vs the average power of all civs...so if you leave a 2-3 city vassal of YOURS somewhere, the guy won't capitulate, but if you simply razed those cities he would! But but but...if he's a "land target" to someone else at war with him, then that power factors in and may get you a capitulation.

Sound bizarre? But that's how it is...I learned because I got screwed, questioned about it, and got help from DanF.

Thanks, Dude. I knew about the "warmonger respect" and the various peace rates, but I didn't know about the capitulation mechanics - sounds quite confusing. Did DanF post this anywhere or was this in a PM? I'd like to read it myself.

 

[Kesshi]

You can't break a peace treaty... period.

FriendoftheDork,

Yes you can, but not under normal circumstances. There are two ways I know of, and that's via an AP vote (declare war on the hethens) or if you have a Defensive pact with another civ, and the civ you have the peace treaty with attacks your Defensive pact partner.

 

[FriendoftheDork]

FriendoftheDork,

Yes you can, but not under normal circumstances. There are two ways I know of, and that's via an AP vote (declare war on the hethens) or if you have a Defensive pact with another civ, and the civ you have the peace treaty with attacks your Defensive pact partner.

I was responding to JEELEN and nNemethon. You can't willing break the deal and AFAIK there is no diplomatic penalty for "you backstabbed us" or anything similar. There is of course "you DoWed us" and "you DoWed our friend" but that is not relevant to how honorable you declared war.

AP votes are usually not so rigged that you can be sure it won't be veto'ed, and you can't plan on anyone DoWing your defensive pact ally.

 

[nNemethon]

I was responding to JEELEN and nNemethon. You can't willing break the deal and AFAIK there is no diplomatic penalty for "you backstabbed us" or anything similar. There is of course "you DoWed us" and "you DoWed our friend" but that is not relevant to how honorable you declared war.

AP votes are usually not so rigged that you can be sure it won't be veto'ed, and you can't plan on anyone DoWing your defensive pact ally.

I should have thought a bit harder. Was it Civ III or Cv IV where you could break treaties immediately and push hard again once your troops have rested and regrouped? I know this made the AI rather nasty towards you.

 

[FriendoftheDork]

I should have thought a bit harder. Was it Civ III or Cv IV where you could break treaties immediately and push hard again once your troops have rested and regrouped? I know this made the AI rather nasty towards you.

In Civ 2 at the very least, not sure about civ 3 but probably. Civ 4? No.

 

[nNemethon]

Sigh - I'm getting old.