I am not so sure about this land though. Maybe I am just awful at this kind of economy, and don't understand how to use it, this is very likely. I rage quit after losing the Oracle by 1 turn after building the Mids, I could have finished it like 10 turns early but I was chopping, and lazy. XD
You get gold in the BFC by moving to stone. You can EASILY start building Mids, switch to Oracle to time its finish with the finish of writing, switch over to settlers to chop them out quickly and then flip back over to the wonders. Got Oracle Theology followed by Mids and then getting settlers out. The most important bit is exploration. There are two city spots that must be settled very fast so BW is pretty crucial here. Low efficiency of hammers as they'd get the wonder boost, but settlers out FAST is very important.
No no I missed the Oracle not because I couldn't get it, I had it at 1 turn with the needed techs for Theo teched BUT I wanted to finish the Mids which were 1 turn off first. XD I also had 4 cities I think, I tend to worker, and settler pump from new cities after they get a granary. But yes I settled on the stone also due to saving worker turns, and there just happened to be a nice bonus.
Funny that this thread was started just as I was messing around with SSE myself, again on Monarch.
I settled 7 cities, I used 1 GS for an academy, confu shrine with a great prophet, used 1 sci bulb on education and had a golden age with the music great artist. The rest were settled. I libbed MT in 1080AD (I already had gunpowder) so I reckon I could've had rifling in 1300AD if I had tried. I did struggle with gold for quite a bit, about 0 gpt with slider at 0% (still doing over 500bpt :lol, but spiritual confu temples/UoS/Spiral Minaret kept things going. Once I got warring, the cottages I stole more than outweighed the increased costs of having a larger empire.
No no I missed the Oracle not because I couldn't get it, I had it at 1 turn with the needed techs for Theo teched BUT I wanted to finish the Mids which were 1 turn off first. XD I also had 4 cities I think, I tend to worker, and settler pump from new cities after they get a granary. But yes I settled on the stone also due to saving worker turns, and there just happened to be a nice bonus.
Oh okay! Well, that was just silly because the mids go later than the oracle normally
Anyway, I did give this a second shot and I managed to get to Rifling in 850 AD. It was going to take me 10 turns to research it so 10 turns from 850 AD, I would have had rifles and none of the AI even had printing press! Problem was that I only had 5 cities and the fifth city was just a burden on me because it was getting crushed by two AI culture.
I'm sure I could have optimised by game a bit more. I think a detour to literature via aesthetics may actually be pretty good as well!
At one time there was a map posted as the easiest Immortal map ever, and I remember I Libbed Riffling at something like 700 AD, but in that game you had a lot of really good land to expand into.
Funny that this thread was started just as I was messing around with SSE myself, again on Monarch.
I settled 7 cities, I used 1 GS for an academy, confu shrine with a great prophet, used 1 sci bulb on education and had a golden age with the music great artist. The rest were settled. I libbed MT in 1080AD (I already had gunpowder) so I reckon I could've had rifling in 1300AD if I had tried. I did struggle with gold for quite a bit, about 0 gpt with slider at 0% (still doing over 500bpt :lol, but spiritual confu temples/UoS/Spiral Minaret kept things going. Once I got warring, the cottages I stole more than outweighed the increased costs of having a larger empire.
At one time there was a map posted as the easiest Immortal map ever, and I remember I Libbed Riffling at something like 700 AD, but in that game you had a lot of really good land to expand into.
Well, I'm not TOO far off despite this being a higher difficulty, me not being a very good player and only having had a small bunch of cities. I'm going to start research Rifling by or before 700 AD as a new target!
Things went to hell in a handbasket fast. AI's expanded toward me and despite rushing a settler out to a nice fant spot, Cyrus beats me (by a tie of all things). Then I had to move settler to a crappy spot just to keep a tiny piece of land. Well... that was useless as Izzy declares war and marches all the way from other side of continent just because Firaxis coded it to be dumb that way.
I had 0 chance to defend the city vs multiple units, and then I'm looking at my razed city, and only capital left with a 20-30 unit stack coming at me and I"m getting near the end of the BC era on deity.
Since I can not defend vs deity stacks this early on flat-land terrain, I stall the war until Izzy is stupid enough to sue for peace (why is it so dumb?). I also capture one of the last barb cities.
After that I push, push, and push as much culture as I can... until end game where I save myself by culture victory. Not the way I wanted but there was too much bad luck for me this early. Immortal would have been a totally different game.
At one time there was a map posted as the easiest Immortal map ever, and I remember I Libbed Riffling at something like 700 AD, but in that game you had a lot of really good land to expand into.
Here is a game where I lib'd infantry in 960 AD. Except for the river the first two cities were on the land isn't really that good. As long as you can get a commerce capital + another commerce city + a great library GPP city you can really get your research going.
Here is a game where I lib'd infantry in 960 AD. Except for the river the first two cities were on the land isn't really that good. As long as you can get a commerce capital + another commerce city + a great library GPP city you can really get your research going.
Yea I think I could have hit AL by then also if I didn't just want to win. For real teching you only need 3-4 cities, and the rest as production to make money.
Here is a game where I lib'd infantry in 960 AD. Except for the river the first two cities were on the land isn't really that good. As long as you can get a commerce capital + another commerce city + a great library GPP city you can really get your research going.
Yeah of course you have to take lib when the AI forces you to, but lib rifles ~300 AD as a fall back plan isn't horrible. Actually as I noted in that game infantry was freaking 60% odds or something horrible against Toku's samurai. So cute lib games aside it is still all about the finish date. Which includes those production cities as zero said.
For example I am not doing the paper beeline this game and suspect I will far outpace revent's production ability. Still need to see the end game of course
Ah! I cracked and took a run with this map...
[...]
@Revent, about your attempt above:
You should put more effort on working strong tiles: it is bad to lose the use of the pigs and copper till this late when they're 3 tiles away from Cuzco.
Your city to the south-east is alright because the land is very nice but the western one probably isn't.
Well, lately, I've been thinking of an idea which is to use TO to get to Theology, settle all Great People, hopefully get the Mids, follow Theology to get Paper, then trade to get Machinery (research Alpha to avoid WFYABTA limit), try to even buy the tech for gold because if everyone is settled, it shouldn't be too hard to get enough gold to buy. Trade around to get to Banking, research preqs to Banking, and trade for banking, research gunpowder followed by Rifling. Get out lots and lots of Rifles by whipping in food rich cities and building in hammer rich. I don't THINK an AI will have ANYTHING to match Rifles if this works as good as I think it does.
You say you want to focus on getting Theology and Paper but... why? What benefits do you get?
I understand stonespamming is the priority early on...
Stone brings prophets and engineers in great numbers. So, I would think that worthy tech targets are:
- Philosophy: Angkor Wat boosts priests;
- Litterature: National Epic is a must in the BCs;
- Civil Service: +50% production is very sweet.
It is often difficult in those games to get an Academy for the capital because you might quickly be overrun by wonder-based GPP. I failed to get one in my run, yet again.
Best GPs for the Academy are the first ones. But scientists compete with mines. Need to find time and food to hire scientists.
Small talk to 1120AD:
Spoiler:
Early tech path: Mining, Masonry, Bronze, Med, Priesthood, AH, Writing.
Skipped The Wheel and settled close by, on the coast (getting trade network - no need for Fishing).
Classical Era: CoL (from Oracle), Aesthetics, Litterature, Metal Casting and Civil Service, in that order. Got the rest from trades.
Got attacked circa 250BC by three AIs eek. Macemen saved the day: could clear stacks and negociate peace with 2, one of them being totally innocuous. Last AI was invaded, south, from around 250AD.
Proceeded towards Engineering before Philosophy/Paper/Education to have an easier time pushing forward.
Didn't have a good positioning to pick a tech from Liberalism so I got Astronomy around 800AD.
Leap forward: 1120AD, closing on Rifling. Veterans from 1st war just killed a 2nd AI. War allies from the West brought me against the 3rd. The world is about to fall. Might finish this with the UN.
Spoiler:
Initial Empire: 5 cities settled.
Defensive wars unlocked the Heroic Epic.
With a little overflow, Cuzco and Machu Pichu could 1-turn units since around 300AD. Getting 2 such cities is game-winning.
Cuzco:
Golden Age was triggered to switch into Free Market. Despite the GA bang, this us a light reason, especially considering I could shrine the Buddhist holy city and didn't go for Caste/Pac.
It's a bit late to try for an Academy but I took the opportunity to hire scientists. Been focusing mostly on mines/priests before.
Between Cuzco, the Hindu Shrine and the Spiral Minaret (captured), static gold is around +150gpt. No Wall Street, yet, but expansion pays for itself. Might finish via the UN; depends on Mongolia's tech pace.
Ah! I cracked and took a run with this map...
[...]
@Revent, about your attempt above:
You should put more effort on working strong tiles: it is bad to lose the use of the pigs and copper till this late when they're 3 tiles away from Cuzco.
Your city to the south-east is alright because the land is very nice but the western one probably isn't.
You say you want to focus on getting Theology and Paper but... why? What benefits do you get?
I understand stonespamming is the priority early on...
Stone brings prophets and engineers in great numbers. So, I would think that worthy tech targets are:
- Philosophy: Angkor Wat boosts priests;
- Litterature: National Epic is a must in the BCs;
- Civil Service: +50% production is very sweet.
It is often difficult in those games to get an Academy for the capital because you might quickly be overrun by wonder-based GPP. I failed to get one in my run, yet again.
Best GPs for the Academy are the first ones. But scientists compete with mines. Need to find time and food to hire scientists.
Small talk to 1120AD:
Spoiler:
Early tech path: Mining, Masonry, Bronze, Med, Priesthood, AH, Writing.
Skipped The Wheel and settled close by, on the coast (getting trade network - no need for Fishing).
Classical Era: CoL (from Oracle), Aesthetics, Litterature, Metal Casting and Civil Service, in that order. Got the rest from trades.
Got attacked circa 250BC by three AIs eek. Macemen saved the day: could clear stacks and negociate peace with 2, one of them being totally innocuous. Last AI was invaded, south, from around 250AD.
Proceeded towards Engineering before Philosophy/Paper/Education to have an easier time pushing forward.
Didn't have a good positioning to pick a tech from Liberalism so I got Astronomy around 800AD.
Leap forward: 1120AD, closing on Rifling. Veterans from 1st war just killed a 2nd AI. War allies from the West brought me against the 3rd. The world is about to fall. Might finish this with the UN.
Spoiler:
Initial Empire: 5 cities settled.
Defensive wars unlocked the Heroic Epic.
With a little overflow, Cuzco and Machu Pichu could 1-turn units since around 300AD. Getting 2 such cities is game-winning.
Cuzco:
Golden Age was triggered to switch into Free Market. Despite the GA bang, this us a light reason, especially considering I could shrine the Buddhist holy city and didn't go for Caste/Pac.
It's a bit late to try for an Academy but I took the opportunity to hire scientists. Been focusing mostly on mines/priests before.
Between Cuzco, the Hindu Shrine and the Spiral Minaret (captured), static gold is around +150gpt. No Wall Street, yet, but expansion pays for itself. Might finish via the UN; depends on Mongolia's tech pace.
Very impressive! Puts my efforts to shame!
Yeah, I guess I was playing without a particular plan. Settled priest = angkor wat is very good for example, etc..Obviously, the end lesson to learn is that I need a clear and concise plan for victory rather than a short/long term goal which may have no meaning to it, ie early rifling without being able to build lots of rifles,etc..
Yeah of course you have to take lib when the AI forces you to, but lib rifles ~300 AD as a fall back plan isn't horrible. Actually as I noted in that game infantry was freaking 60% odds or something horrible against Toku's samurai. So cute lib games aside it is still all about the finish date. Which includes those production cities as zero said.
For example I am not doing the paper beeline this game and suspect I will far outpace revent's production ability. Still need to see the end game of course
I went worker, *quecha. Khan decided to move 3 archers to his eastern city leaving 2 in the capital then move 4 archers to his new southern city leaving 1 archer in the eastern city gifting me 3 cities. After that a 1880 BC Oracle->Code Of Laws + pyramids = caste/rep and I picked up 4 barb cities (all of which were 3 pop or more when I attacked!). So just run 2 rep scientists in the 7 cities I captured = almost 100 beakers per turn around 1000 BC.
You don't even need to attack KK, caste/rep + 4 barb cities isn't bad and you don't get stuck on a 0 slider.
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I rage quit after losing the Oracle by 1 turn after building the Mids, I could have finished it like 10 turns early but I was chopping, and lazy. XD
Just wonder spam 
, but spiritual confu temples/UoS/Spiral Minaret kept things going. Once I got warring, the cottages I stole more than outweighed the increased costs of having a larger empire.
