Behind it all...

[Narz]

Seems people talk about the symptoms rather than the underlying problem.

What people talk about - war, hatred, racism, classism, sexism, religious battles, poverty, etc.

All seems to boil down to fear of one's fellow man and the fear that "this town ain't big enough for the two of us", in other words that life is a big game of musical chairs and there just aren't enough chairs for everyone (and the best way to "win", or survive anyway, is to horde chairs and make sure no one steals them from you.

IMO, the answer to all the worlds problems is an abudence mentally. Now as a mere attitude but in practice. Devoting our resoucres towards finding ways to be able to increase quality of life for EVERYONE and not wasting any of it on "us vs. them" crap.

Please note that I'm not talking about destroying all weapons of self-defense or turning the other cheek towards those who choose to retain primitive, fear based, warlike ways but simply to change ourselves. Change our approach to disruption (whether military, financial or whathaveyou) and concentrate on the goal of getting more from less. If we can blow up two whole cities with the power of an atom surely we can find ways to run cars and power cities in a more economical way.

The amount of money spent in a day on war the world round is straggering. Think of what that money could do if spent on research instead.

I imagine this is what the Buddah meant went he said to have compassion for all beings. Not to let them hurt you or even love them but simply to understand their desires are not so alien to our own and in fact we can use our enemy instead of fighitng him. And maybe let him use us too. And soon we're not enemies anymore. Agree to disagree, respond to tresspasses with a frim response but not angst or the desire for punishment or revenge (which seems to act somewhat like a boomerang in case you didn't notice ). Whether diest or athiest or worshiper of tree spirits I think the whole golden rule (treat others as you wish to be treated) bit makes good sense.

Thoughts?

 

[naturalsurvival]

I agree with everything you said Narz. Someone you and I both know, Rolland, said he works in changing the military.

 

[Narz]

Hi naturalsurvival, welcome to CFC.

How is Rolland (tell me privately who you are talking about I don't recognize the real name ) working to change the military?

 

[Miss Bliss]

Shalom NaturalSurvival and Narz! Interesting topic, I am curious to see in which direction Eye meanders...

"Treat others as you would be unto treated yourself".....hmmmm, when One is sighting creation as 'I' does, there is nothing that is not accidental or whimsical in One's experience...creation is being written instantly and there is no thing but the great void of the moment. Where O casts it's gaze it is perfection eternal...

no other or self to 'treat' in any way other than perfect
just a maddening Isis


.....IsIs..........Is..........Is
..IsIs IsIs.........Is.....Is
IsIs.....IsIs.........IsIs
..IsIs IsIs.........Is.....Is
.....IsIs..........Is..........Is

 

[C~G]

All man can do is to build an island to himself and protect what is his.

It's easy to say you should learn to share when you have got lot from life. But those who haven't got anything from life but misery, even though they have tried their best it's very hard to say such people that when you live your life in certain way you will get what you deserve.

It's very tempting to fall into delusions and whimsical fantasies but reality is that people take what they can get and if you aren't ready they will take what is yours. Of course there are those of us that have learned to let go of things that we don't really need. But most of the people just imitate others and try to get as much they can.

Reason: They are afraid they won't ever get anything others might already have before they die.

 

[Miss Bliss]

Of course, 'behind it all' the thoughts we sustain and hold in mind create the world we experience...

If all circumstantial form is made up of energetic particles, it is a reasonable train of thought that everyone experiences the same elemental energies/forces that work upon the fabric of this place. And if this is so, then 'misery' or rapture is an individuals own hardwiring perogative projection onto the unbiased streaming screen of source currency flow...

 

[C~G]

And if this is so, then 'misery' or rapture is an individuals own hardwiring perogative projection onto the unbiased streaming screen of source currency flow...

Of course, and the neglected child dying in your arms is just an illusion. The life which he or she will never experience like we do is just a dream...

There comes a point when all walls of objective eeriesh reality falls down and the reality hits you hard.
It's the moment to start holding on into that truth because otherwise you might not actually feel a thing anymore or might miss a beat in your life.

Where ignorance is bliss, 'Tis folly to be wise.
- Thomas Gray

 

[shadow2k]

Seems people talk about the symptoms rather than the underlying problem.

What people talk about - war, hatred, racism, classism, sexism, religious battles, poverty, etc.

All seems to boil down to fear of one's fellow man and the fear that "this town ain't big enough for the two of us", in other words that life is a big game of musical chairs and there just aren't enough chairs for everyone (and the best way to "win", or survive anyway, is to horde chairs and make sure no one steals them from you.

Not seeing it. Many of the things you mention, the root of the problem is the perception of the other person. It doesn't matter to them if there is plenty around for both of them.

Because of these divides we've created for ourselves, some people feel that the "other side" isn't worthy. Break down that barrier, and you'll get somewhere. People don't become tolerant due to abundance. In many cases, it simply increases their greed. People become tolerant when they realize that they aren't special, and were not placed above anyone else.

 

[cairo140]

Hey Narz. Although your points are well made and sound, I think it is an overly idealistic view of the world.

If the world would revert (or progress) towards a mutually benefitting movement, it would be all good and fun; however, there would always be at least one body who would try to undermine it. In Civilization, if everyone builds banks and markets rather than riflemen and machine-gunners, then the one person who does ends up gaining an upper hand on the rest of the world, thus progressing faster and dominating more and more.

This snowball effect of militarism is inevitable due to human nature. If you look at the historical evolution circa 5th century BC to 5th century AD, you see that the less miltaristic, smaller, more communal tribes got dominated by large chiefdoms. Then the chiefdoms evolved faster to take over yet more tribes.

In fact, the question and conditions you raised come back full circle. By criticising the world's tendency to spend money on war, you are essentially ignoring and even more root cause... human nature. In a time and place where advancement in technology is possible, an arms race is always inevitable because any leader who does not support an arms race will sooner or later have his country annexed.

 

[cairo140]

The amount of money spent in a day on war the world round is straggering. Think of what that money could do if spent on research instead.

Well, that is exactly why multi-party politics exists in the first place. Although your image of universal diversion of funds from military to social needs will never ever happen, there are respective sides of the political spectrum that push towards the pipe dream. Neo-Conservatism accepts the status quo of human nature and refuses to go down by being idealistic. Neo-Liberalism does what you suggest, and pushes for change.

Just as living in a communal Star-Trek style world where material needs are immaterial, achieving the ultimate goal of 0% militarism is impossible. I hope one day we can make sure strides to get to it, though. That's why I'm a left-winger.

 

[Narz]

Of course, 'behind it all' the thoughts we sustain and hold in mind create the world we experience...

If all circumstantial form is made up of energetic particles, it is a reasonable train of thought that everyone experiences the same elemental energies/forces that work upon the fabric of this place. And if this is so, then 'misery' or rapture is an individuals own hardwiring perogative projection onto the unbiased streaming screen of source currency flow...

Hello Miss Bliss, could you perhaps break that down into layman's terms?

Not seeing it. Many of the things you mention, the root of the problem is the perception of the other person. It doesn't matter to them if there is plenty around for both of them.

Because of these divides we've created for ourselves, some people feel that the "other side" isn't worthy. Break down that barrier, and you'll get somewhere. People don't become tolerant due to abundance. In many cases, it simply increases their greed. People become tolerant when they realize that they aren't special, and were not placed above anyone else.

Understood, I have no problem with that. However, I might add that the feeling that the other is unworthy is also sparked by fear, for example the fear that if blacks could vote or women could vote they would undermine the power of white males.

Also, I don't think true abundence increases greed. Of course most people don't know what true abundence is, for me along with the obvious material things I require and desire it is the absense of fear. Not the primal fear the makes you move if a rock is falling on you but the irrational fear of one's fellow man that keeps us always eyeing (consciously or not) the other fellow with suspicion lest he steal our woman, job or home.

Hey Narz. Although your points are well made and sound, I think it is an overly idealistic view of the world.

If the world would revert (or progress) towards a mutually benefitting movement, it would be all good and fun; however, there would always be at least one body who would try to undermine it. In Civilization, if everyone builds banks and markets rather than riflemen and machine-gunners, then the one person who does ends up gaining an upper hand on the rest of the world, thus progressing faster and dominating more and more.

There where self-defense comes in. I never said we should burn all the weapons.

I do think that disabling all nuclear weapons would be a good idea (besides missle defense systems).

This snowball effect of militarism is inevitable due to human nature.

Due to agriculuturalism and civilization perhaps but I don't think human nature.

If you look at the historical evolution circa 5th century BC to 5th century AD, you see that the less miltaristic, smaller, more communal tribes got dominated by large chiefdoms. Then the chiefdoms evolved faster to take over yet more tribes.

In fact, the question and conditions you raised come back full circle. By criticising the world's tendency to spend money on war, you are essentially ignoring and even more root cause... human nature. In a time and place where advancement in technology is possible, an arms race is always inevitable because any leader who does not support an arms race will sooner or later have his country annexed.

Human nature is quite flexable. In the past rulers have molded the perception of what a normal human being (or country) should behave like. If there is one thing most people are good at it is conforming to standards of society without much question. Remember, for most of civilization's history the subjugation of women was a pretty much universal theme however I wouldn't say it is part of human nature for soceity's to evolve in a way that necessitates this. I could use many other examples of "human natures" that we have transcended. Consciousness is more powerful than any kind of notion of "human nature" IMO.

Well, that is exactly why multi-party politics exists in the first place. Although your image of universal diversion of funds from military to social needs will never ever happen, there are respective sides of the political spectrum that push towards the pipe dream. Neo-Conservatism accepts the status quo of human nature and refuses to go down by being idealistic. Neo-Liberalism does what you suggest, and pushes for change.

Just as living in a communal Star-Trek style world where material needs are immaterial, achieving the ultimate goal of 0% militarism is impossible. I hope one day we can make sure strides to get to it, though. That's why I'm a left-winger.

Remember, I never said 0% miltarism, I said 0% offensive militarism. In a world as interconnected as ours if all nations agree to cut off trade with any nation who invaded another for any reason any large scale violence would simple be impractical.

 

[Fifty]

@Narz: How do you propose (specifically) we move towards this way of life???

@MissBliss: As much as I'm sure it tickles your fancy to attempt to evoke an aura of mysterious aloof intellectualism and "deep-ness", nobody cares much to decipher your attempt: translation?

 

[Narz]

@Narz: How do you propose (specifically) we move towards this way of life???

1. Moved towards self-sufficiency (mental, physical, emotional, etc.)
2. Understand how interconnected we all are (this will help with the first but also help you not get carried away with #1)
3. Question everything (but listen for answers to)
4. Research renewable fuel sources (much more than we presently are)
5. Quetsion our knee-jerk reactions to personal, social and world events
6. Question our fears
7. Figure out how to genuinely contribute to our fellow man and the world at large
8. Figure out what we really want back from the world (deeper than just, "uh.. financial security, a hot wife and a nice car" - not that that can't be part of it)
9. Become both kinder and stronger similtaniously (and consciously recognize the duality between those two is ridiculous)
10. Learn from Fifty about what self-defense art/science will help us have a practical reason to be less fearful
11. Study history
12. Study the Earth and organic/biodynamic agriculture so if someday the grocery store runs out of wonder bread you'll be ok
13. Find your crew now (as in the future travel will not be as cheap as it is now)
14. Keep your mind and body sharp for the coming excitement
15. Meditate
16. Find your spot on Earth, you're not a plant, you can go wherever you like and be with whoever you like (assuming they like you )
17. Learn from the mistakes of civilization while holding onto the facets that have made it great

 

[Miss Bliss]

I am saying (in what I believe to be a fairly straightforward and clear manner), that 'reality' is totally steerable. What one chooses to focus ones thoughts and feelings upon, one will experience. Why give I the image of a dying child in my arms? Why not give me a velvet plush petalled rose to feast my Eye upon, with a fragrance powerful enough to enrapture me.

I digress, but what is digression? Digression from What? Is it possible to digress from I? And here we come to my point alluded to, that there is nothing to fear (since what isn't I) and yet, every potential to do so. Infinite intelligence flows through all manifested form and formless, All possibility exists in the vast Is that Is....The I of the Eye blinks all sights seen instantly...this discussion is a mere blink, within a blink, within a blink within a blink ad infinitum...how many here are steering what the blink reveals to them? Or how many here choosing to experience having it steered for them?

~PassIon Full/Fool Heart

 

[Narz]

Have you personally found reality "totally steerable" in your life Miss Bliss? I personally have not.

Even those notables (Buddah, etc.) who have claimed extraordinary power-over/understanding-of reality have never tried to claim suffering does not exist or sweep it under the table.

Do you not suffer ever, have you never bumped your knee on a table and been suprised by the pain of it?

If you can answer no to those questions please teleport over to the States and become my teacher. Such extraordinary control over reality is something I'd love to learn from you.

Otherwise please do elaborate on your particular process. Vagueness and metaphors are good in a poetry book but not a recipe book. I'm more interesting in spinning yarns that can clothe my body rather than those mental yarns that can distract it (for a short time) from the undeniable cold.

Cheers.

 

[C~G]

Why give I the image of a dying child in my arms? Why not give me a velvet plush petalled rose to feast my Eye upon, with a fragrance powerful enough to enrapture me.

Sometimes rose is just a rose. I don't find roses to be that beautiful until I concentrate myself into their beauty but I do feel something right away if I would have child in my arms.

How about trying to steer away from the thought of "I" first?
Because that is the problem going into strict ascetism.
Finally ego truly dissolves itself by claiming to be alone in the universum just like in hedonism.

 

[Pyrite]

Someone has done more DMT then pyrite.

And come out worse for the wear.

 

[naturalsurvival]

The world's revolution is ultimately a personal one. For what happened to any society that was lost in kindness but whom fell to distruction, did so because still within them was the idea of this possibility, and it reflected in the world.
There is only love in the expanded all knowing Eye. Fear is not even real. The need for baracades are really an extension of what is happening within... a barracaded heart. Why would you the Christ of unconditional mercy need fences to protect you, when Christ divided the sea?

 

[Pyrite]

The world's revolution is ultimately a personal one. For what happened to any society that was lost in kindness but whom fell to distruction, did so because still within them was the idea of this possibility, and it reflected in the world.

Say what? Peaceful peoples wiped out by warmongers served a higher purpose? And how did this reflect in the world? Bloodshed?

There is only love in the expanded all knowing Eye. Fear is not even real. The need for baracades are really an extension of what is happening within... a barracaded heart. Why would you the Christ of unconditional mercy need fences to protect you, when Christ divided the sea?

Because people try to kill other people, just look what happened to christ.
We need an evolution based on pragmatism and co dependance.
Not silly prophets of "if you ignore violence it will go away."
Comfort is going to be the death of you.

 

[Tenochtitlan]

Of course, 'behind it all' the thoughts we sustain and hold in mind create the world we experience...

If all circumstantial form is made up of energetic particles, it is a reasonable train of thought that everyone experiences the same elemental energies/forces that work upon the fabric of this place. And if this is so, then 'misery' or rapture is an individuals own hardwiring perogative projection onto the unbiased streaming screen of source currency flow...

I don't understand!