Belief systems poll

[Gucumatz]

We would have no knowledge of good. Would we then truly have knowledge? Would we have ever truly progressed in knowledge without "evil"? I doubt it.

 

[Akka]

A general or marshall has the right to receive salutes from his subordinates. God is a billion, no, a quadrillion quadzillion times more entitled than any general or marshall.

God has provided enough evidence for you to know his existence through your intellect. God has pandered ENOUGH. If anyone cannot know Him, it is entirely through their own self-imposed will not to know Him.

Actually, the God you describe is just acting like a five-years old spoiled brat wailing for attention. A teen acting like that would be the shame of his family, not a role-model - so you can imagine how far it is from being the all-loving, all-praise-deserving entity he's supposed to be.

This entire kind of reasoning, this very "typical human flaw"-based character (not to say the completely ridiculous logic hole with a "God who is all love" and the world we live on were life itself is entirely built upon preying on another), is just another evidence that such god are simply born out of the imagination of actual people.

Human psychology is the best proof of god's nonexistence, when you realize that all the psychological defense systems are uncanningly alike religion, and the latter provide for the exact same needs than the former.

 

[Gucumatz]

Krogan, are you familiar with any of the writings of George Lemaitre? He was a Catholic priest and at one point high official in the Vatican and the creator of the Big Bang Theory [the mathematical and scientific theory, not the show] as we know it. He would reject your notion that "God has pandered enough" by stating that there are infinite ways to perceive God. To try and state there is one way to follow and that everything to be known has already been established is doing God a disservice and not because people are incapable from "self-imposed will of" knowing him

 

[Krogan Doctor]

Krogan, are you familiar with any of the writings of George Lemaitre? He was a Catholic priest and at one point high official in the Vatican and the creator of the Big Bang Theory [the mathematical and scientific theory, not the show] as we know it. He would reject your notion that "God has pandered enough" by stating that there are infinite ways to perceive God. To try and state there is one way to follow and that everything to be known has already been established is doing God a disservice and not because people are incapable from "self-imposed will of" knowing him

Some people need more persuading than others (although this is their own fault for refusing to use their intellects to grasp the existence of God). That's why the saints were given the power to perform miracles.

 

[Gucumatz]

Saint Augustine - "All truth, is God's truth". The search for truth is the duty of any believer... or non-believer. That doesn't mean they need persuasion in the end, in the contrary actually. Time, knowledge and experience either do that or they don't

 

[Arachnofiend]

Some people need more persuading than others (although this is their own fault for refusing to use their intellects to grasp the existence of God). That's why the saints were given the power to perform miracles.

Your own holy book contradicts you, dude.

11 The Lord said, “Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the Lord, for the Lord is about to pass by.”

Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake. 12 After the earthquake came a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper.

Even God recognizes that his parlor tricks aren't going to do squat for making people believe.

 

[Krogan Doctor]

Your own holy book contradicts you, dude.



Even God recognizes that his parlor tricks aren't going to do squat for making people believe.

I've had it with you and your self imposed blindness. I'm not going to deign a response.

 

[Akka]

Just as a reminder, this is supposed to be the CivFanatics site. Not the other kind of blind fanatics.

 

[Krogan Doctor]

As a matter of fact, I'm done with this thread (no offense intended at all, Kyriakos).

 

[timtofly]

Your own holy book contradicts you, dude.

Even God recognizes that his parlor tricks aren't going to do squat for making people believe.

Or that he does not even need them.

 

[Arachnofiend]

Or that he does not even need them.

I think the idea is both. I mean, the quote in context is God explaining to Elijah why his great pillar of fire didn't actually cause anyone to believe.

 

[El_Machinae]

I've had it with you and your self imposed blindness. I'm not going to deign a response.

This reminds me of the day that Jesus gave up on me, too

 

[Gucumatz]

God is not man. Man easily condemns one another .

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yes, love me or go to hell. It's simple. God created you and put you on this Earth as a test to see if you loved Him. You should, given that He created you and a whole lot of other things in nature to show that He loved you, including other humans. Love for love is only right. Fail to reciprocate love, and YOU'RE the evil one, not God by any means.

What a sad, petty god to think eternal suffering is a justified penalty of not meeting it's demand to love it.

Now I'm far from romantic, but that is a cynical way to think about love if you think that makes any sense.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

because only fools can fail to notice that there is a God given so many evident signs in nature.

Name one.

 

[timtofly]

I think the idea is both. I mean, the quote in context is God explaining to Elijah why his great pillar of fire didn't actually cause anyone to believe.

It could also point to why Elijah himself did not believe, and he seemed to be "in touch" with God. Sometimes I wonder if belief is more harmful than helpful?

This reminds me of the day that Jesus gave up on me, too

What did Jesus do?

 

[Kyriakos]

Good morning all (it is 8.41 AM here...)

Sad to see Krogan go, particularly since this thread was not meant to be a discussion of specific gods..

However i am happy that Borachio highlighted so much what this thread mostly is about, which is the nature of knowledge, moreso in regards to ideas such as a god. Which is why the term "belief" is in its very title.

Furthermore, the thread is about the idea of a god, which is entirely distinct from the idea of a specific being, so comedy-oriented examples of weird monsters or other entities are not really apt for this debate any more than a debate on the importance of the idea and meaning of the term "monster" would have much to do with comedic (ab)uses of that term

 

[Borachio]

Name one.

Well, there's me. I am a fool such as described. Often enough. (But a pedantic joking one.)

 

[LamaGT]

GOd didn't want Lucifer to sin, yet he sinned and brought sin into the universe. Sin originated with him; He was created good but fell through his own pride, greed and lust. With free will, given to humans as a great act of love (for by this humans can elect to unconditionally love God) some may choose to sin and disbelieve. Cross my heart and hope to go to hell, only fools choose this route, because only fools can fail to notice that there is a God given so many evident signs in nature.

But if god created Lucifer as a good angel, where did pride and greed and lust come from?

 

[Kyriakos]

But if god created Lucifer as a good angel, where did pride and greed and lust come from?

Tezcatlipoca

Spoiler :