PhroX
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2009
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- 2,806
Best and Worst friends?
- Thread starter Tecibbar
- Start date
With Mansa, a few techs here and there do trickle down, and it does keep the global tech rate a bit faster trading with mansa, but I find later in the game he and I start to seriously pull ahead when we're buddies. Then I typically backstab him and beat him down, because he doesn't build enough units. He also tends to capitulate pretty quickly in my experience and will get back to pleased with a city liberation or two, so you can keep him as a buddy as a vassal and start directing his research.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
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Yes that may happen gradually. However, usually it's nothing compared to the beaker advantage the two of you get by exclusive trade whoring.
MadmanAtW
Knight
I'm curious how this works, actually. As I understand it, an AI will not trade a tech that he's the only one that knows, so how can you and the AI leapfrog ahead of everyone else if he won't trade you the techs that he got ahead of the pack? (I'm assuming that my understanding is flawed here somewhere. 
)
)I'm curious how this works, actually. As I understand it, an AI will not trade a tech that he's the only one that knows, so how can you and the AI leapfrog ahead of everyone else if he won't trade you the techs that he got ahead of the pack? (I'm assuming that my understanding is flawed here somewhere.
I'm not an expert on how each AI is coded, but I think you're right that some AI will often hold onto techs they have monopolies on, or if they're building a wonder associated with the tech (often see this with music on someone building sistine, for example). But Mansa very rarely isn't willing to trade techs to me - he'll continue to trade if it means getting techs for him. I think it's totally dependent on which AI you're talking about.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
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Mansa will tech whore regardless.
HOWEVER, no AI will hold monopoly techs if you have them at friendly (they might still with hold wonder techs until the wonder is built, if they've already started the wonder). 1-2 friendly AIs can therefore be a dramatic runaway tech advantage. I've gone runaway tech whore with the likes of kublai khan, Qin, saladin/izzy, zara, lots of AIs really.
Techs do trickle down a bit but at nowhere near the beaker conversion rate you get by trade whoring with a partner or two.
That's a point I need to remember and learn playing now at emperor more - friendly really is the key to tech whoring with anybody. I've been starting the last 10-20 games trying to focus more on getting an AI or two to friendly - the tech trading is just another reason to do it.
MadmanAtW
Knight
Wow, I didn't realize that. Always thought I was screwed if I wound up sharing an island with only one or two civs- I thought one meant no tech trading, and two meant I couldn't get anything unless they both had it.
Maybe this is better in a new thread, but this is a thread for AI friends: what're some of your best tricks for getting someone to Friendly? Sharing a religion is always good, and acquiescing to requests; sometimes you can't run a favorite civic until late, but it helps. Deliberately starting a war and getting him on your side for the "we fought together" bonus? What do people do in the early game to get that leg up on tech by making someone friendly?
Maybe this is better in a new thread, but this is a thread for AI friends: what're some of your best tricks for getting someone to Friendly? Sharing a religion is always good, and acquiescing to requests; sometimes you can't run a favorite civic until late, but it helps. Deliberately starting a war and getting him on your side for the "we fought together" bonus? What do people do in the early game to get that leg up on tech by making someone friendly?
You've hit on the key ones, civics, religion, accepting requests. Gifting a tech or two sometimes helps, and gifting an extra resource. I'll often do an extra corn or pig resource for free to get a +2 with a civ. Sharing a war with them helps as well.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
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Yeah, that's pretty much all of them. Open borders helps too.
The trick is picking who you side with when there are many AIs, but that's not usually an issue with 1 on 1 spawns or 3 ways.
champ82
Immortal Ruler
I had Mansa on a game where space and culture were turned off. He voluntered to be my vassal after I was preparing to invade him. Hey Mansa, tech this, I'll tech that, and after I build the wonder we can trade.
Brenus was my best bud in one game. We shared the religion, went after a neihbor, traded techs. Got along famously. In other games I didn't get along with him.
In general I like the peacenicks as neihgbors though. Good for trading and conquering. What else could you want? Only more recently have I been using the more aggresive civs as allies and with infrequent sucsess.
Worst - Shaka and Joao. Joao Rexes, techs and plays the diplo game well. Shaka is no big deal if he's your only risky border - just take him out. If he gets big on another continent though he can be trouble.
Monty is always pathetic. Wouldn't want to be on a small continent with just him all the same.
Regarding the OP - why are Charismatic leaders so darn likeable and fair? It's obvious, they're charismatic. (drum roll)
Brenus was my best bud in one game. We shared the religion, went after a neihbor, traded techs. Got along famously. In other games I didn't get along with him.
In general I like the peacenicks as neihgbors though. Good for trading and conquering. What else could you want? Only more recently have I been using the more aggresive civs as allies and with infrequent sucsess.
Worst - Shaka and Joao. Joao Rexes, techs and plays the diplo game well. Shaka is no big deal if he's your only risky border - just take him out. If he gets big on another continent though he can be trouble.
Monty is always pathetic. Wouldn't want to be on a small continent with just him all the same.
Regarding the OP - why are Charismatic leaders so darn likeable and fair? It's obvious, they're charismatic. (drum roll)
Ai Shizuka
King
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2008
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- 856
Joao is easy to get along with. He likes Hereditary Rule and doesn't declare at pleased. But in my experience he's one of the most demanding leaders.
Prevent DoW from Shaka? Forget it. Fav civic is super-late and he doesn't care about religion (little bonus from shared religion).
And on the higher levels there's absolutely no way to keep him below the power threshold to prevent a DoW.
Monte is in the same league but he's more of a zealot, so it's probably possible to push him to friendly without fav civic bonus.
Prevent DoW from Shaka? Forget it. Fav civic is super-late and he doesn't care about religion (little bonus from shared religion).
And on the higher levels there's absolutely no way to keep him below the power threshold to prevent a DoW.
Monte is in the same league but he's more of a zealot, so it's probably possible to push him to friendly without fav civic bonus.
champ82
Immortal Ruler
I don't know man Joao has done some really skeezy things to me. He seems to pick on me even if I'm not his neighbor and I'm not lowest on the power graph. Somehow he techs, Rexes, has military AND has a lot of Espionage. And everyone else likes him! That's the worst part. I'm not saying what I'm about to say is actually true, but it's almost as if his script reads "take out human opponent or at least cause him trouble, he is enemy #1."
Just one man's experience, game after game after game.
And then he's all aloof, pretending he doesn't see me at first, blowing his ring with that fancy hat of his. I...just don't see...why...he hates me so much (sobing, crying.)
Just one man's experience, game after game after game.
And then he's all aloof, pretending he doesn't see me at first, blowing his ring with that fancy hat of his. I...just don't see...why...he hates me so much (sobing, crying.)
FidelZandro
Optimistic turtle
I love Hatshepsut, great friend, very dependable imho.
Washington works well for me too.
I don't really have awesome game-knowledge to back it up though.
They just work out well.
I hate Monty, because, well, you know, he's just, you know, Monty
Shitting Bull is very much crap too, as he keeps on asking for stuff always all the time. Usually i just stop looking at the proposals after a while, clicking "go away and leave me alone".
Isabella is the same. She's my sworn enemy from the moment i meet her.
Toku isn't too bad, he's kind of a rogue and will join wars.
Washington works well for me too.
I don't really have awesome game-knowledge to back it up though.
They just work out well.
I hate Monty, because, well, you know, he's just, you know, Monty
Shitting Bull is very much crap too, as he keeps on asking for stuff always all the time. Usually i just stop looking at the proposals after a while, clicking "go away and leave me alone".
Isabella is the same. She's my sworn enemy from the moment i meet her.
Toku isn't too bad, he's kind of a rogue and will join wars.
Hi
I actually find hattie kinda of annoying.
First if she is close by creative can be a pain just by itself but even when she not that close to you she can still be a pain.
It not that she is hard to get friendly with it just the opposite. She is EVERBODYS friend. I get her to like plus 15 or something she is like plus 20 or higher with someone else so that means no votes for AP or UN. Someone dow's on me and not only WONT she help cuz she cant betray her close friends, but there have been more than a cpl games where armies are marching into my back yard through her borders and she wont EVEN do a stop trading request just to close borders cuz that AI her she letting march through to kill me is her BFF too.
And she ALWAYS seems to be wanting to be gifted this or gifted that. Which of course she is ALWAYS "happy to help" when the other AI's trun around and ask it from her. So while she is not as dangerous as cathy or the psychos like monty she is still annoying in her own way, to me anyways.
Kaytie
I actually find hattie kinda of annoying.
First if she is close by creative can be a pain just by itself but even when she not that close to you she can still be a pain.
It not that she is hard to get friendly with it just the opposite. She is EVERBODYS friend. I get her to like plus 15 or something she is like plus 20 or higher with someone else so that means no votes for AP or UN. Someone dow's on me and not only WONT she help cuz she cant betray her close friends, but there have been more than a cpl games where armies are marching into my back yard through her borders and she wont EVEN do a stop trading request just to close borders cuz that AI her she letting march through to kill me is her BFF too.
And she ALWAYS seems to be wanting to be gifted this or gifted that. Which of course she is ALWAYS "happy to help" when the other AI's trun around and ask it from her. So while she is not as dangerous as cathy or the psychos like monty she is still annoying in her own way, to me anyways.
Kaytie
As others have said, Montezuma has to be one of the worst. I don't think I've managed to even get 'pleased' with him in a single game. Similarly with Isabella, we almost always end up fighting shortly after meeting.
On the whole though, I think my least favourite neighbour to have is Boudica. I'm not a good early warmonger, and I've been stuffed by the Celts far too many times!
On the whole though, I think my least favourite neighbour to have is Boudica. I'm not a good early warmonger, and I've been stuffed by the Celts far too many times!
Absolutely worst friend under normal circumstances (don't need an attack dog) - think Toku is fairly undebatable here.
If you need an attack dog, then I guess MM would be the most useless
Best friend... maybe Hannibal, since he techs well, won't trade techs without a good relationship (unlike MM or Gandhi who you don't need to have as friends to tech-whore), and fights well.
If you need an attack dog, then I guess MM would be the most useless
Best friend... maybe Hannibal, since he techs well, won't trade techs without a good relationship (unlike MM or Gandhi who you don't need to have as friends to tech-whore), and fights well.
I tend to befriend jerks I can get along with rather than the genuinely nice people. As KaytieKat pointed out, the latter can be annoyances in their own right because they'll have conflicting loyalties.
I far prefer to be someone's only friend.
Catherine might be needy... but she usually does well enough to be a good ally. If she likes you enough, you can get her to do anything to anyone (and to be sure you'll eventually backstab her rather than the other way round, you need to be her only friend).
Tokugawa might be an antisocial git, but get on his good side and you'll have a competent military ally whom you can feed cutting edge military tech without having it end up in anyone else's hands.
Monty might be a vicious little bugger, but he's easy to be friends with via religion... just point him at someone else's throat and get an early shared war bonus for a useful lapdog.
By contrast, the people I don't try to befriend are the ones who will be useful whether they like me or not. Sitting Bull acts as a lightning rod even if he hates me... and engaging in phoney wars with him is likely to make the hardcore warmongers my buddies so he's my favourite whipping boy. Musa will happily trade anything with me even if he doesn't love me while being a somewhat indifferent friend... again, no reason to kiss up to him.
Joao tends to have a big underdefended empire, isn't much of an ally and can turn into a monster if left unmolested for too long. More importantly, his head really would look good on a pole (pimp hat and all).
I far prefer to be someone's only friend.
Catherine might be needy... but she usually does well enough to be a good ally. If she likes you enough, you can get her to do anything to anyone (and to be sure you'll eventually backstab her rather than the other way round, you need to be her only friend).
Tokugawa might be an antisocial git, but get on his good side and you'll have a competent military ally whom you can feed cutting edge military tech without having it end up in anyone else's hands.
Monty might be a vicious little bugger, but he's easy to be friends with via religion... just point him at someone else's throat and get an early shared war bonus for a useful lapdog.
By contrast, the people I don't try to befriend are the ones who will be useful whether they like me or not. Sitting Bull acts as a lightning rod even if he hates me... and engaging in phoney wars with him is likely to make the hardcore warmongers my buddies so he's my favourite whipping boy. Musa will happily trade anything with me even if he doesn't love me while being a somewhat indifferent friend... again, no reason to kiss up to him.
Joao tends to have a big underdefended empire, isn't much of an ally and can turn into a monster if left unmolested for too long. More importantly, his head really would look good on a pole (pimp hat and all).
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