The rounding errors in Civ IV in general drive me nuts, but yes, that's another part of it. Wonders aside, in a city with 1 specialist, the Forum does absolutely nothing at all. (As it does in a city with no specialists). A +X would be nice... but a 33% boost to GPP would also be a much better fit with specialists.
Best and worst UU/UB?
- Thread starter salty mud
- Start date
The rounding errors in Civ IV in general drive me nuts, but yes, that's another part of it. Wonders aside, in a city with 1 specialist, the Forum does absolutely nothing at all. (As it does in a city with no specialists). A +X would be nice... but a 33% boost to GPP would also be a much better fit with specialists.
alex15
2004
Alot people in this topic said that Jaguars is worst unit, horever what about map scripts like Rainforest and Boreal when almost evry tile on the map is jungle or forest, Jaguars still be one of worst units?
(im sure that many early units in game is map dependent, but not sure about jaguars)
Also im suprised that almost no one at this topic mentioned Sacrifes Altar as strongest UB in game
Best UU: Fast Worker, Cho Ko Nu (Compared to the Crossbowman Cho-Ko-Nu has one more first strike and can cause collateral damage, also both chinese leaders is protective)
Worst UU: Navy Seal, Panzer (its not because they late but because they are not great itselves)
Best UB - Sac Altar
(im sure that many early units in game is map dependent, but not sure about jaguars)
Also im suprised that almost no one at this topic mentioned Sacrifes Altar as strongest UB in game
Best UU: Fast Worker, Cho Ko Nu (Compared to the Crossbowman Cho-Ko-Nu has one more first strike and can cause collateral damage, also both chinese leaders is protective)
Worst UU: Navy Seal, Panzer (its not because they late but because they are not great itselves)
Best UB - Sac Altar
Panzers and Navy Seals come almost about same time as stuff like Modern Armor,Anti-Tanks,Mobile Artillery,Nukes and Mobile SAM
Seraiel
If you want anything from I please ask in German
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@ alex15 (above poster) :
I've played a Boreal map with Monte (and got that game on video ^^) . Jaguars are absolute Beasts on those type of map-scrips because they allow Woodsmen II promotion from Barracks only. I never stole so many Workers so early like in that game, I managed to build Mids + choke 2 neighbours so they had to fight with Archers / Chariots and conquered both of them, I don't think that this would have been possible with any other leader.
Link to described game in HoF, 4 saves available.
I've played a Boreal map with Monte (and got that game on video ^^) . Jaguars are absolute Beasts on those type of map-scrips because they allow Woodsmen II promotion from Barracks only. I never stole so many Workers so early like in that game, I managed to build Mids + choke 2 neighbours so they had to fight with Archers / Chariots and conquered both of them, I don't think that this would have been possible with any other leader.
Link to described game in HoF, 4 saves available.
Olson
Warlord
Yesterday I played a couple hours w/ Huayna Capac as my leader. Either I've never played the Inca before or it was a couple mos. ago when I first started playing C.IV but, oh boy, ye Gilead, a 'warrior' that's 4 Str. vs archers and a grainery with, what is it, +3 culture? A Financial and Industrious (?) leader, too? I had to check my settings to confirm I was playing my current standard level/settings. Way too easy on that particular map.
whitelaughter
Warlord
Best: Fast Worker, followed closely by Quechua. Despite being late, Oromo are deadly.
Jaguar savage on a well forested map: ignore cities, just harvest workers, xp and pillage gold from unwanted neighbours. Then capture cities when Maceman rolls around.
While I've never even seen a Panzer, the most pointless UU would have to be the Celtic Swordsman. However, Celts become deadly if you use a Protective leader - the Dun and Protective work very well together. Cities are untouchable, archers become attack units, constant expansion using crossbow/musket/grenadier.
Truly loathe Hippodrome, horrible UB.
Jaguar savage on a well forested map: ignore cities, just harvest workers, xp and pillage gold from unwanted neighbours. Then capture cities when Maceman rolls around.
While I've never even seen a Panzer, the most pointless UU would have to be the Celtic Swordsman. However, Celts become deadly if you use a Protective leader - the Dun and Protective work very well together. Cities are untouchable, archers become attack units, constant expansion using crossbow/musket/grenadier.
Truly loathe Hippodrome, horrible UB.
MensPulchra
Chieftain
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best UB is forum. seriously, more gret people generation is great. just like philosophical trait, i end up with more great people and we know all that great people is a must.
worst UB: baray. one food. seriously. its not even a citizen. plain bad
best UU: immortals
worst UU: gallic warriors. have nothing special then that almost useless promo
worst UB: baray. one food. seriously. its not even a citizen. plain bad
best UU: immortals
worst UU: gallic warriors. have nothing special then that almost useless promo
Seraiel
If you want anything from I please ask in German
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@ MensPulchra:
Gallic Warriors can get Guerrilla III (50% withdrawl! ) with only 4 or 5 XP, they aren't too bad actually, and the Forum is regarded as one of the worst UBs available because only few people even build Marketplaces and 25% :gpp: from one isn't too much either. Just compare the last to i. e. Terrace (Granary giving a lot of
) , the Mint (Forge giving +10% 
) or the Ikhanda (Barracks reducing the city's maintenance by an additional 20%) .
Immortals are very good though and the baray is truely bad, not sure if it's the worst UB, the French Saloon imo is a hot candidate for that position aswell. At least barays give something good, the Artist allowed by the Saloon is somehow... ^^
Gallic Warriors can get Guerrilla III (50% withdrawl! ) with only 4 or 5 XP, they aren't too bad actually, and the Forum is regarded as one of the worst UBs available because only few people even build Marketplaces and 25% :gpp: from one isn't too much either. Just compare the last to i. e. Terrace (Granary giving a lot of
) , the Mint (Forge giving +10% ) or the Ikhanda (Barracks reducing the city's maintenance by an additional 20%) .Immortals are very good though and the baray is truely bad, not sure if it's the worst UB, the French Saloon imo is a hot candidate for that position aswell. At least barays give something good, the Artist allowed by the Saloon is somehow... ^^
drewisfat
King
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In my games I definitely don't think the Salon is the worst UB. It's bad, sure, but there's a lot more I will literally never use. Most UBs aren't important anyways. Here are some I'd consider as bad or worse:
- Dun (most commonly considered the worst).
- Mausoleum ( This can be decent in late starts, but I rarely ever reach the time when I'd rly want to build jails, happiness usually isn't an issue then anyways).
- Mall (Similar story, could be good in late starts, but otherwise comes way too late, is attached to a bad building)
- Obelisk (able to put 2 priest specialists. This can be used to try some rly early super specialists, and i guess is important if you're going for an AP lame, but in normal games an early GPriest would be a disaster. I use a super early GA or a rly useless bulb? Maybe I just haven't considered trying a weird bulb route to make it useful, but despite coming super early I think this UB is total junk. Super specialist cities, and settling several GPriests can be fun (and maybe this is a good UB in a OCC) but playing seriously settling priests is trash.
- Research Institute ( Laboratories come wayyy too late, and these are basically built to make spaceship production go up, extra scientists at this late stage in the game isn't going to improve your space race that much [and ofc i dont blv in space race wins anyways
])
The great artist from the salon I usually consider a moderate buff on a building I generally build, albeit pretty late. I think people are too inflexible with GP and too worried about "pollution". Usually at this stage in the game I'm often going for one last Golden Age, and artist points if anything are the most valuable, since I'll rarely be running artists specialists.
I don't get why many good players think aqueducts (and so also barays) are bad. Aqueducts are a pretty efficient way to get health later on, and most games that I get to factories I end up whipping up these bad boys in every city. Harbors are better ofc, but not every city is on the sea, and grocers can be better, if you have enough of those resources. And even so sometimes you need extra health on top of that, and it's certainly a better pick than hospitals, recycling centers or replacing coal plants. And isn't +1 food pretty decent, when you compare the buffs other UBs have?
- Dun (most commonly considered the worst).
- Mausoleum ( This can be decent in late starts, but I rarely ever reach the time when I'd rly want to build jails, happiness usually isn't an issue then anyways).
- Mall (Similar story, could be good in late starts, but otherwise comes way too late, is attached to a bad building)
- Obelisk (able to put 2 priest specialists. This can be used to try some rly early super specialists, and i guess is important if you're going for an AP lame, but in normal games an early GPriest would be a disaster. I use a super early GA or a rly useless bulb? Maybe I just haven't considered trying a weird bulb route to make it useful, but despite coming super early I think this UB is total junk. Super specialist cities, and settling several GPriests can be fun (and maybe this is a good UB in a OCC) but playing seriously settling priests is trash.
- Research Institute ( Laboratories come wayyy too late, and these are basically built to make spaceship production go up, extra scientists at this late stage in the game isn't going to improve your space race that much [and ofc i dont blv in space race wins anyways
])The great artist from the salon I usually consider a moderate buff on a building I generally build, albeit pretty late. I think people are too inflexible with GP and too worried about "pollution". Usually at this stage in the game I'm often going for one last Golden Age, and artist points if anything are the most valuable, since I'll rarely be running artists specialists.
I don't get why many good players think aqueducts (and so also barays) are bad. Aqueducts are a pretty efficient way to get health later on, and most games that I get to factories I end up whipping up these bad boys in every city. Harbors are better ofc, but not every city is on the sea, and grocers can be better, if you have enough of those resources. And even so sometimes you need extra health on top of that, and it's certainly a better pick than hospitals, recycling centers or replacing coal plants. And isn't +1 food pretty decent, when you compare the buffs other UBs have?
@ MensPulchra: The forum may have a nice type of bonus, but the amount is pathetic at less than a quarter of a trait. The +2 
UBs embody "good but no excellent", imagine a trait that granted +8 .
Immortals are quite good, but they are overshadowed by War Chariots because of the (somewhat strange) way bonuses scale. War Chariots are often better against archers in cities, and of course not countered as hard by spearmen.
UBs embody "good but no excellent", imagine a trait that granted +8 .Immortals are quite good, but they are overshadowed by War Chariots because of the (somewhat strange) way bonuses scale. War Chariots are often better against archers in cities, and of course not countered as hard by spearmen.
Also Absolute Z says it's good. Always makes me want to rush math with the khmers.
rfcfanatic
Mercantilist
The 3 worst UUs I think are Navy Seal, Panzer and Gallic Warrior.
Marines suck against Infantry, but the Navy Seals aren't any better.
Tanks are in trouble against Anti-Tanks and they'll get pretty much shred into pieces by Gunships. So do Panzers.
Gallic Warriors are as bad as Swordsmen against Axemen. Unless they take Guerilla promotion. But when they do go down the Guerilla promotion tree, they'll suck badly as city attackers. Unless they receive Guerilla III promotion which gives them 50% retreat. The only way they can reliably receive it is via Theocracy or Vassalage. But by then, they'll face Crossbows or Longbows.
Marines suck against Infantry, but the Navy Seals aren't any better.
Tanks are in trouble against Anti-Tanks and they'll get pretty much shred into pieces by Gunships. So do Panzers.
Gallic Warriors are as bad as Swordsmen against Axemen. Unless they take Guerilla promotion. But when they do go down the Guerilla promotion tree, they'll suck badly as city attackers. Unless they receive Guerilla III promotion which gives them 50% retreat. The only way they can reliably receive it is via Theocracy or Vassalage. But by then, they'll face Crossbows or Longbows.
Izuul
Level 86
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The worst ones are the ones that come so late you never use them in most games. Mall is horrible, Shale Plant is pretty bad, Panzers and Navy Seals... If you want the worst total package it's probably America followed by Germany. Luckily both have leaders with strong traits.
Of the earlier ones probably the Obelisk and Madrasa for UBs because i rarely ever want to turn citizens into priests, especially not that early in the game. I rarely find Ballista Elephants useful.
Of the earlier ones probably the Obelisk and Madrasa for UBs because i rarely ever want to turn citizens into priests, especially not that early in the game. I rarely find Ballista Elephants useful.
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
You guiyz, teh praetorian is teh worst UU because its sooooo weak!!! It should have 10and a free March promotion!!!
Lolnub, real peoplez here over at CFCHQ don't use praenoobies but use theire bowmenzzz for the lulz
It's also c00l and l33t to play on settlerz here, I bet you're one of those deity noobs
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