BETA: 1.25

[Woad]

I think I might have tracked the source of the crash that people are having. If you order a worker to build something, wait 1 turn and then order him to automate the game crashes. AI uses this option so this is why it sometimes crashes on end turn too. I tried playing on a map without any AI players for a long time and the game did not crash, but when I turned on the autoplay it crashed immediately. On the other hand there was no crash on autoplay when I did not have any workers. So it might be it.

EDIT: The crash only seems to happen later on in the game. I'm able to reproduce it right off the bat only on Classical and later starts.

 

[Xyth]

I've started a couple of games and again I've got crashes. I don't know if it's relevant or meaningful info, but I've noticed all my crashes happens in very early game, between turns 50 and 75 on saga game speed.

I think I might have tracked the source of the crash that people are having. If you order a worker to build something, wait 1 turn and then order him to automate the game crashes. AI uses this option so this is why it sometimes crashes on end turn too. I tried playing on a map without any AI players for a long time and the game did not crash, but when I turned on the autoplay it crashed immediately. On the other hand there was no crash on autoplay when I did not have any workers. So it might be it.

EDIT: The crash only seems to happen later on in the game. I'm able to reproduce it right off the bat only on Classical and later starts.

Yeah, the crash is definitely worker/improvement related. I was too busy yesterday, but I'll hopefully figure it out today.

 

[keldath]

well done!

 

[rsab]

Great!

 

[Zorro777]

Works good. I've never noticed the stock share dealing aspects until recently. My favorite part (actually a bug I'm sure) is when the stock goes deep in the negative (rarely), like maybe -$35 and you get paid to buy it. (however the share numbers are over 100 total) Then holding, you get a big dividend periodically. One time it went back into the positive and I made another big profit. The other time it never got back to 0 but the dividend was I think about $85 and I think I was paid a few thousand to buy it. I know you once said the code was very complex. I'm curious as to what factors make the prices go up and then mostly down. Also it would be nice if there was a way to bid for buying stocks and let the sellers decide to make a sale or not rather than waiting for someone to offer a sale. Waiting 20-30 moves between sales seems like slow motion. Also another idea, maybe stocks could be included in the trade page so you could give some shares away or trade some for another commodity or a tech or other shares. Also if there was a way to list the transactions to see what you actually paid on acquisition and received from the sale and also how many shares were actually transacted vs the offering. Thanks for a great mod!!!

 

[evilcoward]

New Eye of the Sahara natural wonder seems to be ignoring 'No natural wonders' option and spawns anyway, in batches even (three adjacent plots on one of generations).

 

[Xyth]

My favorite part (actually a bug I'm sure) is when the stock goes deep in the negative (rarely), like maybe -$35 and you get paid to buy it. (however the share numbers are over 100 total)

Definitely a bug.

I know you once said the code was very complex. I'm curious as to what factors make the prices go up and then mostly down

• Accumulated wealth
• Cost of expansion
• Proportion of resources compared to competitors
• Proportion of offices/cells compared to competitors
  
• Some random fluctuation

Also it would be nice if there was a way to bid for buying stocks and let the sellers decide to make a sale or not rather than waiting for someone to offer a sale. Waiting 20-30 moves between sales seems like slow motion.

This is something I'd like to add in the future. I want to ensure the system is working well before adding any extra complexity though.

Also another idea, maybe stocks could be included in the trade page so you could give some shares away or trade some for another commodity or a tech or other shares.

Something else for the future. This would have to be a Windows-only feature though as it requires DLL changes.

Also if there was a way to list the transactions to see what you actually paid on acquisition and received from the sale and also how many shares were actually transacted vs the offering.

While useful, there are some technical challenges that potentially outweigh the benefits of implementing something like this.

New Eye of the Sahara natural wonder seems to be ignoring 'No natural wonders' option and spawns anyway, in batches even (three adjacent plots on one of generations).

I noticed that too in a recent test game. Investigating.

 

[dretnoth]

Eh... okey... are okay all players get know every one on map even if they are on different continents? Mostly early in game? (Probably for beta testing purpose) Or shall i start new game after fix-update?

The trade between leaders... maybe i ding get it... I notice they mostly are proposing jokes. (big profit for one who asking, small for asked one. At last its look like that to me. Sometime the Ai propose something for very cheap.) I hope the AI dint accepting blindly these jokes. (they tri sell you something you dint need) If yes it will look like some AI-s is on the crack. (both negative and positive)

And maybe is only my feeling but due to certain circumstance my peace world (Never see a war. Probably) got to a technology rush marathon between #1 and #2. (no sprint. the top two have techs in 2-3 turns) Maybe is because many cities on normal speed they have like double money income compare to #3 me. I try stock up Great Merchants for Banks but its not enoff. Maybe i just dint get it.

 

[Xyth]

Eh... okey... are okay all players get know every one on map even if they are on different continents? Mostly early in game? (Probably for beta testing purpose) Or shall i start new game after fix-update?

This is likely due to the new 'Trade Contact' feature. It was a feature of AD2 that I was unsure about, but merged it anyway in case it turned out useful. So far I haven't liked it, so I'll probably disable it before release. Another option is to have it unlocked by a tech later in the game.

The trade between leaders... maybe i ding get it... I notice they mostly are proposing jokes. (big profit for one who asking, small for asked one. At last its look like that to me. Sometime the Ai propose something for very cheap.) I hope the AI dint accepting blindly these jokes. (they tri sell you something you dint need) If yes it will look like some AI-s is on the crack. (both negative and positive)

Could you give me some specific examples? Which trade items do you feel are undervalued or overvalued by the AI? This initial beta has focused primarily on seeing if the new diplomacy options function and are error free. I haven't done much balancing yet.

And maybe is only my feeling but due to certain circumstance my peace world (Never see a war. Probably)

I'm seeing this too, too many positive attitude bonuses, not enough negative ones. I'm working on it.

 

[Zorro777]

This may or may not be related but in several games I have been surprised by a massive invasion from a civ that I have had overwelming positive relations for a long time except open borders. Then several huge army stacks are smashing my improvements and heading for town right at the moment of declaring war.

Also some leaderheads are in love with certain commodities. Their counteroffer on a trade for one thing is four other different things. It rarely happens but when it does it is a surprise.

 

[dretnoth]

Could you give me some specific examples? Which trade items do you feel are undervalued or overvalued by the AI? This initial beta has focused primarily on seeing if the new diplomacy options function and are error free. I haven't done much balancing yet.

Mostly already forget, so next time i just screenshot all trade jokes. but...
one example is they ask for they (not Vanilla) resource like 10 bucks.
second they buy one worker for 600 golds but in reality i sell my great prophet. (maybe i just not notice its prophet, but i still believe i saw worker)
mostly they offer hard cash for most thing, lately they buying techs for galeons and workers.
sometimes i try discus about it and trade table was cleared and the item/tech/treaty was unaviable

when im on it... i though about cost for techs, when offering to trade: (skip this part)
[(tech value in Research points)- (opponent progress)] * [(+/-20% for i like/dislike oponent) (+20% if tech in your priorities )] -(10% for know by other races) [(oponent total RP points in techs / your total RP points in techs) in %]
[tech cost 1000 - oponent have 200 in progres] * [i disliking you so +40% tech is my priority so +20%] - know by 4 players so -30% [you have 75% total rp that me]
800 * 1.3 (+30%) *0.75 (-25%) = 780

This may or may not be related but in several games I have been surprised by a massive invasion from a civ that I have had overwelming positive relations for a long time except open borders. Then several huge army stacks are smashing my improvements and heading for town right at the moment of declaring war.

I think its just when peaceful expansion (building new city) is impossible they start preparing for war building units. When you notice the map is full turn to military units production. when they are ready (prepare enoff expeditionary forces) they look for closest weakling to join them. It comparing total military strength. If you are not weakling to them they will look to another target. Sometimes they asault if you are culturally weakling or just they cities have high cultural level. but the amount of tiles is restricted by your cities and they level of culture.
Oh and wen they are trethen when you got to fast up on research or they just go for game victory.

 

[RexLacerta]

Hi Xyth,

Just wanted to say thanks for the new version. Had a ton of fun with 1.24, playing my first game of 1.25 beta and having a blast.

I did notice a few things, probably been mentioned before:

• Minor music one: Game sometimes tries to play a track called "Crossroads" that isn't in the sound folder.
• When the new diplomacy options (Which I am really pleased to see by the way, great work!) come up in a trade agreement, the game spams an error message. Probs something you know already
• Another diplomacy one: The AI is offering me trades that don't really make sense. Chief one is resources based. The AI will offer me resources I don't need for resources that they don't need. They would not let me make the same deal, the options are normally blocked: "We would have nothing to gain."

On the flipside, loving the new diplomacy work. Three empires just declared war on me because I was consistently bullying a fourth they were friends with. Really getting a better international diplomacy experience; feels that they've actually formed a coalition against me - never seen that before. I especially like the introduction (re-introduction?) of the ability to introduce/be introduced to other empires you haven't met yet. I distinctly remember something like that in vanllia bts? Really glad it's back.

Thanks for your continued work. Can't imagine it's the most straightforward mod to work with, but I must say it's been my chief timesink for the past year. Keep it up! Can't wait to see what's next!

 

[SpartanU]

Nice job on the last fix, I was able to continue, but ran into another crash later. It has been consistently crashing on the next turn. I still haven't been able to get the crash reporting to work so here is the save file.

 

[Xyth]

Also some leaderheads are in love with certain commodities. Their counteroffer on a trade for one thing is four other different things. It rarely happens but when it does it is a surprise.

Are corporations or syndicates in play when this happens?

Mostly already forget, so next time i just screenshot all trade jokes. but...
one example is they ask for they (not Vanilla) resource like 10 bucks.
second they buy one worker for 600 golds but in reality i sell my great prophet. (maybe i just not notice its prophet, but i still believe i saw worker)
mostly they offer hard cash for most thing, lately they buying techs for galeons and workers.
sometimes i try discus about it and trade table was cleared and the item/tech/treaty was unaviable

Do you think the AI currently overvalues or undervalues workers and military units?

Minor music one: Game sometimes tries to play a track called "Crossroads" that isn't in the sound folder.

Will fix, thanks.

When the new diplomacy options (Which I am really pleased to see by the way, great work!) come up in a trade agreement, the game spams an error message. Probs something you know already

Please post it anyway.

Another diplomacy one: The AI is offering me trades that don't really make sense. Chief one is resources based. The AI will offer me resources I don't need for resources that they don't need. They would not let me make the same deal, the options are normally blocked: "We would have nothing to gain."

I don't think I've made any changes to resource evaluations. Will have a look though.

Nice job on the last fix, I was able to continue, but ran into another crash later. It has been consistently crashing on the next turn. I still haven't been able to get the crash reporting to work so here is the save file.

I've solved the crash, but I won't be able to post the fix for a day or two, sorry. I'm in the middle of some other adjustments and if I release it before finishing those, stuff will break.

 

[Zorro777]

Are corporations or syndicates in play when this happens?

Corporations, yes, Syndicates, no.

 

[Zorro777]

Two more issues I've been tracking.

When building, several cities are given an option to build a monastery. They all start but only the first one done is allowed to keep it and the rest have to stop building it and switch to something else. Maybe it's a built-in problem w BTS itself.

The other is a strange bug in the Corporate Advisor, specifically in stock transactions. I have screen snapshots since I thought I was imagining it originally or it was a rarety. First off, almost no stocks can be sold no matter what your order size. Then when an order is sold, it's usually one or a few no matter how many shares you list for sale. The biggest bug, however, is that whatever gets sold, "I" place a phantom order to buy them back right away. So the screen that shows my order was partially filled also shows I now have an order to buy exactly what I sold, which I never set up. If you don't catch it right away it may get filled on the next turn. Right now the solution is I cancel my phantom buy order and change the share numbers back to zero and adjust my sell order as needed. This happens every time there is a sale. The phantom buy order only happens when I sell. I haven't bought any to try to see if it also goes the other way, too. On the previous games where I bought I don't think it did. This phantom order has been in at least the last five whole games.
Thanks!!

UPDATE: If the sell order sells off completely, it does not flip into a buy order. Only if it is partially sold does the remainder flip into a buy order.

 

[s.bernbaum]

When building, several cities are given an option to build a monastery. They all start but only the first one done is allowed to keep it and the rest have to stop building it and switch to something else. Maybe it's a built-in problem w BTS itself.

This is not a basic BTS problem. I frequently play Culture games in unmodded BTS. When doing so, I am often building monasteries in several cities at the same time. Completion of one does not stop work on the others. It is either a bug or intended feature of HR. I leave it to Xyth to say which.

 

[AbsintheRed]

This is not a basic BTS problem. I frequently play Culture games in unmodded BTS. When doing so, I am often building monasteries in several cities at the same time. Completion of one does not stop work on the others. It is either a bug or intended feature of HR. I leave it to Xyth to say which.

No, this is not true.
It's a general BtS feature. One could argue if it's good or bad, but it was definitely intentional.
Happens when you reach the current limit of how many monasteries (cathedrals, etc.) you can have.
So you can't have more than the limit, but still have the production stored in the other cities where you started it. In case the limit increases (or the number of monasteries you have decreases), you can continue the progress for it.
There might be a better solution, but it's definitely not a bug.

 

[s.bernbaum]

Cathedrals, I agree, are limited to one for every 3 or 4 of the basic religious building, depending on map size or game speed. However, when I play culture games, I am aiming to flip my neighbors' cities to my empire by culture pressure so I frequently will have a monastery in every city. Since I am usually playing on Marathon with a Huge map, that can mean that I have more than 20 monasteries, often in the high 20s. If there is a limit it is more than 30. I know this works that way because I do it very often. This is in regular BTS 3.19 with only BUG Mod installed.

 

[Xyth]

When building, several cities are given an option to build a monastery. They all start but only the first one done is allowed to keep it and the rest have to stop building it and switch to something else. Maybe it's a built-in problem w BTS itself.

This is not a basic BTS problem. I frequently play Culture games in unmodded BTS. When doing so, I am often building monasteries in several cities at the same time. Completion of one does not stop work on the others. It is either a bug or intended feature of HR. I leave it to Xyth to say which.

No, this is not true.
It's a general BtS feature. One could argue if it's good or bad, but it was definitely intentional.
Happens when you reach the current limit of how many monasteries (cathedrals, etc.) you can have.
So you can't have more than the limit, but still have the production stored in the other cities where you started it. In case the limit increases (or the number of monasteries you have decreases), you can continue the progress for it.
There might be a better solution, but it's definitely not a bug.

Cathedrals, I agree, are limited to one for every 3 or 4 of the basic religious building, depending on map size or game speed. However, when I play culture games, I am aiming to flip my neighbors' cities to my empire by culture pressure so I frequently will have a monastery in every city. Since I am usually playing on Marathon with a Huge map, that can mean that I have more than 20 monasteries, often in the high 20s. If there is a limit it is more than 30. I know this works that way because I do it very often. This is in regular BTS 3.19 with only BUG Mod installed.

In HR, Monasteries require a certain number of Temples, similar to how Great Temples (Cathedrals) do. You can't can't have one in every city. This is why you have to stop production in other cities when the limit is reached. I don't use the actual BTS mechanic for this, but rather my own custom code which allows me to increase that limit with a particular Tenet. End result is the same though.

The other is a strange bug in the Corporate Advisor, specifically in stock transactions. I have screen snapshots since I thought I was imagining it originally or it was a rarety. First off, almost no stocks can be sold no matter what your order size. Then when an order is sold, it's usually one or a few no matter how many shares you list for sale. The biggest bug, however, is that whatever gets sold, "I" place a phantom order to buy them back right away. So the screen that shows my order was partially filled also shows I now have an order to buy exactly what I sold, which I never set up. If you don't catch it right away it may get filled on the next turn. Right now the solution is I cancel my phantom buy order and change the share numbers back to zero and adjust my sell order as needed. This happens every time there is a sale. The phantom buy order only happens when I sell. I haven't bought any to try to see if it also goes the other way, too. On the previous games where I bought I don't think it did. This phantom order has been in at least the last five whole games.

I'll have to look into this. If you could provide a saved game it would be a great help.