Beta 13

Edit: I'm enjoying the new mercenary system, it's a great change. But I keep getting notified that there are new mercs available when I don't see any. Why is that?

This was reported previously, but I don't know what causes it unfortunately
Probably something related to when you own a province from the possible region or provinces where the mercenaries can become availeable.
So the merc do appear (and in a region which is somewhat related to you), but in another province which is not yours.
But as I said this is just a guess, I didn't find any actual bugs in the code :dunno:
 
Playing as Byzantines in SVN and barbs capture/raze Antioch, my stability drops from +13 to 0. Why so drastic decrease?

How much of it was temporary and permanent stability loss?
Can you test it out?

very minor map tidbit, but could the river in northen Jutland (Denmark) change direction so it flows west to east?, its first in recent time (1825) that the Fjord (which it actually is) broke through in a flashflood

Sure, no problem
 
hmm ... played abit around with Burgundy and got a few suggestions

for starters, for mere simplicity, flip around UHV 1-2 so they're listed in year of finish.

UHV 2 (culture) can easily handle getting upped to 15k instead of 10k ... granted i demolished France, and owns everything in OK provinces (and Naples), but now in 1300 (well ... 1297) i have 16.5k without honestly even trying (8 Belfrys, built when nothing else interesting in sight, and no catherals) and wager i would be able to get 15k fairly easily without expanding hard

could it somehow be possible to let UHV3 finish if you manage to remove England, France and Germany from the scorelist, either by collapsing or vassaling? ... i got some, what, 90(?) turns where i practially just have to tap shift-enter, because theres not really anything to challange me (specially since Spain came and cried help when i was getting ready for eating southwesten germany, because they had a tough time handling Cordoba and vassaled to me)

EDIT: on the Limfjord ... upon reading closer, it was open in both ends till somewhere around 1200
 
Ottomans are way,way OPd if Bulgaria dosen't stay strong.

Like, conquer all of Anatolia, the Middle East, Africa, Kiev, Greece, and Hungary OPd.

(Lucky for me I was in Iberia)
 
Except for Kiev -- that's exactly what Ottomans did in the real history. Wait ... Crimea was Ottoman vassal and they even burned Moscow, so there... OP Ottomans is not a real problem -- underpowered Austria is. I really feel like RFCE could use the unions from RFCE++. Imagine Austria-Hungary merger -- Turks will have harder time. For some reason Russia also is not doing very well in 1600s-1700s...
 
the unions in ++ is one of the things i believe would be 'relatively' easy and senseable to port into the main mod :), since it doesn't demand several new civs to work.
 
Playing as Byzantines. Bulgaria, Kievans (before mongols) and Hungarians more or less collapse to barbarians.

Bulgarians and Arabs against a human Byzantium should start at peace. If there is a % chance of war at start it will just benefit the player since you then can wipe out their starting force. If they settle it becomes a lot more complicated.

The following Byzantine regions should be "ok" instead of "solid": Cyprus, Rhodes and Arberia. The AI usually settle them and that stability penalty is unneccesary since they Byzantines get so many stability hits anyway.
 
Hi Everyone,

normally when I have to leave for a while, I can come back and get caught up in and hour or so. However, this time I am facing way too many pages after pages of discussions, I don't think I will be reading all of this.

Here is some news on my situation. After several months of uncertainty, I know that in February I will be finally starting a new job. I want to be done with RFCE 1.0 by then. Afterwards, it would be most appropriate to merge RFCE and RFCE++, so that RFCE 2.0 is in fact a polished version of RFCE. At that point Morholt can take over the C++ part of the mod.

What this means is that I want to officially declare an end to all new features and concentrate 100% on balance and the UHV conditions. Cosmetic changes such as graphics don't affect a gmeplay so we can keep adding more graphics, but the gameplay should be the main focus.

Since I have missed a lot of talk, I would appreciate a summary of the changes that I would be doing right now.
 
Hi Everyone,

normally when I have to leave for a while, I can come back and get caught up in and hour or so. However, this time I am facing way too many pages after pages of discussions, I don't think I will be reading all of this.

Here is some news on my situation. After several months of uncertainty, I know that in February I will be finally starting a new job. I want to be done with RFCE 1.0 by then. Afterwards, it would be most appropriate to merge RFCE and RFCE++, so that RFCE 2.0 is in fact a polished version of RFCE. At that point Morholt can take over the C++ part of the mod.

What this means is that I want to officially declare an end to all new features and concentrate 100% on balance and the UHV conditions. Cosmetic changes such as graphics don't affect a gmeplay so we can keep adding more graphics, but the gameplay should be the main focus.

Since I have missed a lot of talk, I would appreciate a summary of the changes that I would be doing right now.

A very big issue that should be decided upon ASAP is the Iberia map thing, if you could read the Iberia/Africa Shift thread and look at the maps. Then please give your stamp of approval or disapproval as it's so far undecided what we want to do.
 
Next on the list: Germany. I expected that this shouldn't be too hard, and this was right. To be more exact, if I killed the Ottomans on spawn or if they collapse under their weight, a conquest victory might be in reach. This to illustrate what happened.

Let's go back to where it started. Germany is a nice place to begin, except for Augsburg. In my game Augsburg was razed by barbs which gave me the opportunity to found München, where it just catches the cow in Austria. Don't do this, I'll explain why later. Other early cities were Mainz, Bayreuth and (to be edited). This means that you will not settle Franconia, but it should be covered by culture. This is where München has it's major drawback, being that you miss Franconia by one tile. I cheated this tile by WB but I assume you won't complain about that.;) To deal with this, settle 1W, saves some problems later on. Some provinces to worry about are Lombardy and Brandenburg. Genoa spawns in Lombardy so they have to be pushed out of Italy. Poland likes to settle a city in Brandenburg so settle there early or prepare for war. In the meanwhile, just build your empire like you'd normally do. Minden is a good spot, Groningen isn't, but 1E of Groningen is acceptable. Same goes for Lübeck, but I changed it's spawn location anyway, which normally should benefit AI Germany and Norse too. Basically, just settle Germany in a well-thought manner, don't forget to settle contestable tiles early, be aggressive in Italy and build an empire. That's all you need to do for goal 1.

Goal 2 is to research a certain tech. Most likely you will be tech leader, so this too shouldn't be hard. Conquer Austria for some stability, or Poland, France, Burgundy, Venice and Hungary for fun. Some of them have rare resources that you won't find in Germany, like Barley, Potatoes, Rice, Sheep, etc. Be patient with stability, though it's unlikely that you'll ever be below stable. Rathauses are outstanding for corporations, so try to grab at least a knight order and a banking family. Knights can be used well into the 17th century, so stronger knights are to good to be left alone. Venice settled Knights Templar and collapsed for some reason, which gave me the opportunity to earn some serious money there. Crusades can be fun too by the way. Again, I didn't vote for myself to lead the crusades to Jerusalem, but I got the opportunity to buy and redirect it, to Buda. Extra units close to home, nice event.

With new acquisitions everywhere, this should be trivial. Lithuania and Moscow vassalized. The Norse collapsed after I conquered Aarhus and Lund and razed Roskilde (worthless spot), and Sweden capitulated after they tried to take Lund. The Netherlands vassalized too, with 2 Galleons and 2 work boats. Privateers did the rest of the job. Spain killed France, built some colonies but collapsed because of overexpansion. Cordoba vassalized to them early on, inherited some cities and were so surprised they collapsed too. This lead to the situation that Portugal was the only Iberian civ left, but since they were weaker than the independent Spanish states, they couldn't hold more than 2 cities. Yet another sign that Spain is overpowered, even in independent form.:) This lead to the situation that there were only three (soon 2, England will be gone within a few turns) civs are still in competition: Turkey and me. Byzantium respawned with Durazzo and a Greek island, Genoa managed to stay alive but didn't expand past Corsica and Sardinia, Portugal never grew big. The rest of the world was either independent, German, German vassal or Turkish. Turkey and I have a defensive pact which is funny because there is no civ left (apart from those not grey independents like Genoa) to declare war on us. I might check my chances vs. Turkey, though that would take at least 20 minutes for each turn.

General remarks:

- Musketmen are too cheap. Arbalestiers and Longbowmen upgrade to Musketmen for minimal costs.
- Templar Masters obsolete too soon (Teutonic Masters too I think). They were my major force once I could build them and there is nothing to replace them yet. If knights can still be trained, the Templars should be able to expand.
- Why do the hungarian cities still have the classical looks? I know that it was originally based on Carthage but that was years ago so shouldn't they be changed to Medieval ones like the rest of europe?
- The AI should be thought to build science or wealth in stead of units sometimes. Honestly, I can't blame the Turkish AI and I think they are doing a good job now but their power was simply astonishing. I blame them for exhausting my laptop.
- Spain is overpowered too. Compared to Spain, France and Germany are just regular civs who just happen to have a good position. Spain conquers Cordoba too quickly now. It's the 'Turkey-syndrome', except that Spain is supposed to stop expanding in a military way beyond Spain. Sure, they have more objectives, but France is the only realistic way to get there.
- I admit that I played a part in this, but the endgame was a bit boring. I expanded just below domination limits, and the only enemy I had to watch out for was Turkey.

Civ specific remarks:

- Goal 1 is okay, it requires some thought. Bohemia could be added. 2 and 3 are too easy. Who's going to keep you from 2? Who expects you not to get 3 and much more? No, I think this should be changed. What about: spread Protestantism to a larger population than Catholicism? Or, convert X nations to Protestantism; convert every nation above latitude Y to Protestantism? Slighty unhistorical because of Moscow, but whatever.
- South Brandenburg feels a bit bare.
- Stability is way too easy. I'm starting to believe that there is one stability building too many. I'm now at +24 without a golden age, with 27% territory; new cities don't even have rathauses yet. One building less and I would be around -5 or -10, which is IMHO appropriate for such an empire. So far I encounted in every game that once I got everything up and running, stability stayed around +20 (very solid) and I could expand as far as I liked to, even into unstable areas. After all we are balancing for Monarch and not for Emperor; one less balances the game I think, at least for the human player.
- Krakau is AWESOME. Name it, next turn you have it. Only city that can keep up with Turkey.
 
- Stability is way too easy. I'm starting to believe that there is one stability building too many. I'm now at +24 without a golden age, with 27% territory; new cities don't even have rathauses yet. One building less and I would be around -5 or -10, which is IMHO appropriate for such an empire. So far I encounted in every game that once I got everything up and running, stability stayed around +20 (very solid) and I could expand as far as I liked to, even into unstable areas. After all we are balancing for Monarch and not for Emperor; one less balances the game I think, at least for the human player.

I agree with this, I think the +1 stability from the Night Watch should be removed. Either that, or get rid of the building altogether.

Spain and France warmonger too much. France almost always rushes to knock out Burgundy as soon as possible and usually succeeds. Duchy of Burgundy is very rare in the 15th Century. Spain isn't that overpowered, if they knock Cordoba out then they probably should be the civ to beat in addition to Turkey. It's just unfortunate that they choose to fight France so often. I think that the AI should pursue peace more often. Wars are way too decisive right now.
 
We should reduce stability, but the question is which building. I see Night Watch as a replacement for the Manor House, since the Manor House becomes obsolete later on and late players cannot build it. Maybe we can remove the stability boost form the Courthouse, it will have a stability boost due to the lower maintenance, which this helps the Economy a lot.
 
Hi Everyone,

normally when I have to leave for a while, I can come back and get caught up in and hour or so. However, this time I am facing way too many pages after pages of discussions, I don't think I will be reading all of this.

Here is some news on my situation. After several months of uncertainty, I know that in February I will be finally starting a new job. I want to be done with RFCE 1.0 by then.

What this means is that I want to officially declare an end to all new features and concentrate 100% on balance and the UHV conditions. Cosmetic changes such as graphics don't affect a gmeplay so we can keep adding more graphics, but the gameplay should be the main focus.

Alright, so 1.0 in february, and IMO we should release the next Beta in a few weeks. For Christmas maybe ;)
How much time do you have in the following weeks?
For me the exams are mostly overs (for now), so we can get pretty much done for the next release if you have some modding time too

Since I have missed a lot of talk, I would appreciate a summary of the changes that I would be doing right now.

Will try to sum up the most important things

Afterwards, it would be most appropriate to merge RFCE and RFCE++, so that RFCE 2.0 is in fact a polished version of RFCE. At that point Morholt can take over the C++ part of the mod.

I had similar thoughts in my mind
It seems I will start a new map after all ;)
 
Afterwards, it would be most appropriate to merge RFCE and RFCE++, so that RFCE 2.0 is in fact a polished version of RFCE. At that point Morholt can take over the C++ part of the mod.

Does this mean the main mod will include things like unions and the HRE? But none of the added civs, I'm guessing?
 
Does this mean the main mod will include things like unions and the HRE? But none of the added civs, I'm guessing?

After the release of 1.0 I would like to merge everything from RFCE++, or at least almost everything
And on a new, polished and slightly bigger map
So, if 3Miro and Morholt both agrees, I would like 2.0 to be a full merge
 
Minor idea for later spawning resources.

When a resource spawns on the map (like coffee in 1450), the player gets a message. But only if you control the tile ofcourse.
For instance, when coffee spawns: The people of Yemen discovered a new type of drink and exported it to your empire.
Or with the Potatoes: A new crop has been imported from the new world to be cultivated in our lands.

Or isn't this idea necessary and can it be left out?
 
It wouldn't be too frequent (2 to 3 times in the whole timeline) but I suppose it would add some flavor to the modmod, which is always nice. Perhaps also something like "New lands have been discovered in the west, and colonies are starting to be established in this new world" when the first American colony is build.
 
I like both of the above ideas. Popups informing the owner of a new resource is definitely helpful. For the first colony one, is it possible to say "[Civilzation] has established a foothold in [colony]" but saying Mexico and Peru instead of Aztec/Inca Conquests.
 
Hi Everyone,

normally when I have to leave for a while, I can come back and get caught up in and hour or so. However, this time I am facing way too many pages after pages of discussions, I don't think I will be reading all of this.

Here is some news on my situation. After several months of uncertainty, I know that in February I will be finally starting a new job. I want to be done with RFCE 1.0 by then. Afterwards, it would be most appropriate to merge RFCE and RFCE++, so that RFCE 2.0 is in fact a polished version of RFCE. At that point Morholt can take over the C++ part of the mod.

What this means is that I want to officially declare an end to all new features and concentrate 100% on balance and the UHV conditions. Cosmetic changes such as graphics don't affect a gmeplay so we can keep adding more graphics, but the gameplay should be the main focus.

Since I have missed a lot of talk, I would appreciate a summary of the changes that I would be doing right now.
Congratulations on your new job!

Which issues at hand would require playtesting/suggestions?
1) General balance, how is civ x, on average, doing compared to real history? Similarly, what is that standard deviation, i.e. how often does civs diverge from the average outcome?
2) Should any UHV be replaced, if ideas arise? There has been some talk, for instance about Cordoba.
3) How should the UHV be balanced? AbsintheRed has alluded to this in previous posts.

Probably, 3) should be adressed individually for each civ after 1) is done. General suggestions for 2) is possible before 1) is complete, I think.

As for 1) I think Ottomans currently are very good. As others have said previously, Austria and Moscow are generally weak. Are there other civs that on average need help?

How about 2)? Cordoba has received some suggestions, which other civs are up for discussion?
 
3Miro, could you check the posted savegames from the last few pages?
There were saves from the founding protestantism bug with a non-catholic civ, and a bug regarding a Burgundian respawn IIRC
 
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