Arrogant
Prince
I've been enough of a whiner, but if this patch works as advertised, my faith in Firaxis has been restored 
Beta Patch 1.13 Released
- Thread starter Micaelis Rex
- Start date
kryszcztov
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2003
- Messages
- 2,423
I'm happy because Firaxis is doing some good stuff now, with this interaction between designers and players ! 
But I'm quite angry because this should have been done 1 or 2 years ago. Unless someone tells me there was such interaction in those days...
As far of this patch, it seems there are some very good improvements, even over 1.12, and at least all the things that bugged me (corruption, FP) are now almost pretty clear. I'm gonna wait for some guys to test things, to see if it works as advertised, and actually how it works. If at last (in this field) things are going well, I might consider patching soon... and maybe start playing this game again. 
Because, like Aggie said, some games (SG, PBEM...) last long, and it becomes a pain to play obsolete games. Not to mention that we know previous versions were bad (1.00).
But I'm quite angry because this should have been done 1 or 2 years ago. Unless someone tells me there was such interaction in those days...As far of this patch, it seems there are some very good improvements, even over 1.12, and at least all the things that bugged me (corruption, FP) are now almost pretty clear.
I'm gonna wait for some guys to test things, to see if it works as advertised, and actually how it works. If at last (in this field) things are going well, I might consider patching soon... and maybe start playing this game again. Because, like Aggie said, some games (SG, PBEM...) last long, and it becomes a pain to play obsolete games. Not to mention that we know previous versions were bad (1.00).
Aggie
Deity
A mod or admin here should be able to confirm this, but I was informed that Firaxis is OK with it.
Qitai
.
Well, for now, I would just say "Use it at your own Risk".
Until it is officially posted at www.civilization3.com, I would say that we cannot blame Firaxis for anything that goes wrong with this patch, although I believe this is at least better than V1.12.
* Updated Civilopedia.txt Forbidden Palace to explain that all cities are still affected by distance from the Real Capital.
Based solely on this statement (and not on any tests), this still wouldn't make the Forbidden Palace return to its Civ3/PTW status. All this patch appears to do is make the FP city as uncorrupted as a capital, but the other cities around it will still have distance corruption calculated based on the capital's distance, not on whether they are closer to the capital or the FP. In other words, there is still the problem that one cannot create two cores of productive cities by spreading the FP and capital far apart. Unless I'm missing something, this seems to be yet another partial/failed fix.
Based solely on this statement (and not on any tests), this still wouldn't make the Forbidden Palace return to its Civ3/PTW status. All this patch appears to do is make the FP city as uncorrupted as a capital, but the other cities around it will still have distance corruption calculated based on the capital's distance, not on whether they are closer to the capital or the FP. In other words, there is still the problem that one cannot create two cores of productive cities by spreading the FP and capital far apart. Unless I'm missing something, this seems to be yet another partial/failed fix.
I think it's a middle of the road fix. It makes the game more balanced with the AI (they receive the same bonus as the human player, regardless of poor FP placement, due to the substantial increase in OCN), while making the FP more powerful and allowing for larger empires.
I'll take a wait and see attitude. The 90% corruption max seems pretty nice...
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
I'm wary of this fix. Previously, courthouses and police stations had little or no effect in very corrupt cities because they could not reduce corruption below the 95% cap. Now that this cap is lower, will these buildings be even less useful?
Holy....
This is going to sound weird, but one of the things I like about this is that it doesn't match what seemed to be a kinda / sorta final concensus in our 1.12 corruption fix discussion. It looks like Firaxis really read through all the different ideas, took a few of them together, presumably ran some tests and / or numbers, and implemented a system that has some good potential.
It looks like we (players) will be able to build quite a few more productive cities now, as well as keep even our worst cities from being totally useless. However the AI is going to get a significant boost from this, as FP location will no longer matter... Build it anywhere and watch your rank related corruption go down significantly due to the OCN increase.
Quite interesting
This is going to sound weird, but one of the things I like about this is that it doesn't match what seemed to be a kinda / sorta final concensus in our 1.12 corruption fix discussion. It looks like Firaxis really read through all the different ideas, took a few of them together, presumably ran some tests and / or numbers, and implemented a system that has some good potential.
It looks like we (players) will be able to build quite a few more productive cities now, as well as keep even our worst cities from being totally useless. However the AI is going to get a significant boost from this, as FP location will no longer matter... Build it anywhere and watch your rank related corruption go down significantly due to the OCN increase.
Quite interesting
Pounder
Phaethon was here
You may have noticed with Vanilla Civ3 and PTW that there were a couple of 'official patches' released by Firaxis before the Final Patch each summer (around the time they announce the next expansion pack).
I think this is the first time they have released 'beta patches' before the official patches.
I think it is a great feedback loop.
planetfall
Emperor
Moderator Please make this a sticky.
Wahoo, just when I was getting bored with 1.12
== PF
Wahoo, just when I was getting bored with 1.12
== PF
planetfall
Emperor
Chieftess,
Yes I have hated corruption from C3. Now only fear is what if AI is too big?
Ah, should be fun, fun, fun.
== PF
Yes I have hated corruption from C3. Now only fear is what if AI is too big?
Ah, should be fun, fun, fun.
== PF
Has anyone noticed a dramatic drop in the number of resources with the new pathces. I just finished a large pangea map with 60% water, and only saw 5 horses and 6 iron. The others were very limited too. I just started a second game and noticed the same thing.
akots
Poet
You knock and knock and even though sometime you hear some angry voice behind that door, in the end it will open. It is very exciting when you write and write about something, nobody seems to pay any attention, and in the end ... boom, it is right there.
I'm extremely happy with what they did for the time being because it is almost exactly the same thing which I wanted and on which tried to make a point. It looks like the whole corruption model is going to a big change. Also, some of your ideas come to reality as well.
However, more tests are required to see what happened to the actual corruption coefficients and functions.
So if I patch now, how is that going to affect my current game? I've got a really good game going, don't really want to abandon it. Has anyone patched midgame yet?
In the last patch, it was possible to restart mid-game. The changes did not take effect for at least one turn because the recalculation needed to be done, and some people took that to mean that the changes didn't work. After a couple of end turns you should see corruption change to the new values.
This one should work the same way.
Shyrramar
Warlord
BretP,
I noticed the same thing. I was playing large archipelago with 60% water. There were only 5 rubber and 5 oil or so (that would leave some civs lacking atleast the other). It seems that their frequency has indeed been reduced.
Well, atleast it does make the game more interesting (if somewhat frustrating)
It puts some pressure on friendships to find that your beloved neighbour has an oil source and you don't... "Oh, Catherine, I am very fond of you, but regrettably I must inform you that we must invade your capital for oil. Hope you don't mind."
I noticed the same thing. I was playing large archipelago with 60% water. There were only 5 rubber and 5 oil or so (that would leave some civs lacking atleast the other). It seems that their frequency has indeed been reduced.
Well, atleast it does make the game more interesting (if somewhat frustrating)
It puts some pressure on friendships to find that your beloved neighbour has an oil source and you don't... "Oh, Catherine, I am very fond of you, but regrettably I must inform you that we must invade your capital for oil. Hope you don't mind."
