Beta Patch 1.13 Released

[Yumbo]

BretP, Shyrramar:

I agree. I've been noticing a startling lack of strategic resources, as well as luxuries.

The luxuries, I don't mind. The strategic resources, however, are severely unbalancing the game--in my favor. I keep running up against civs with no iron in the mid game; as you can guess, they are quite easy to take out.

There should be much more liberal sprinkling of strategic resources...

 

[TedJackson]

I've updated my C3C 1.13b FP & corruption test thread (> here <) to show the effect of building the FP in a Capital ring 1 city.


Ted

 

[Shyrramar]

The problem with few strategic resources is that the AI doesn't pursue them enough. I started the game with no iron, but I managed to mass enough longbowmen to capture the Mayan capital and the iron it held. After depriving them of their iron, they never really recovered. The point here is that we human players can cope with few resources, the AI can't. This then is a major disadvantage to the AI, as Yumbo said. Surely this is easy to fix?

 

[Yeti]

TedJackson's great testing efforts have revealed something interesting:

Distance corruption appears to still be calculated based on the closest capital.

 

[anarres]

Yes, but the Rank Corruption i still based on the rank from the Capital, which is why they stated distance from the capital was still important.

If you build your FP 10-15 tiles away on a standard map you will notice an FP that is very similar to the Civ3/PTW standard, which benifits the AI (who never builds further away than that). Building the FP far far away is still (normally) a bad idea, due to the large rank corruption.

 

[TedJackson]

Anarres: In my first test I built the Capital at 19,61 & the FP at 71,55 on a stanfard map (100*100). Overall corruption decreased from 128/257 (approx 49.8%) to 66/258 (approx 25.6%) which I guess is a bit more than you were expecting

Conversely, building the FP in a Capital ring 1 city only reduced overall corruption to 123/260 (approx 47.3%).


Ted

 

[Old&Slow]

Originally posted by BretP
Has anyone noticed a dramatic drop in the number of resources with the new pathces. I just finished a large pangea map with 60% water, and only saw 5 horses and 6 iron. The others were very limited too. I just started a second game and noticed the same thing.

Yes, absolutely !


Three starts on a huge map, 7 AI Civs.


In each by the time I controlled 1/2 the Map with 25 plus cities VS 2-3 AI Civs on the Continent I had -NO- Saltpeter in any Game and in 1 game no Iron.

In 2 Games , after trading maps, there was only 1 source of Saltpeter on the huge Continent and 1 of Horses.

In fact in all the Games the AI`s behaved in a very sluggish manner, and I suspect this is the reason.

 

[Yumbo]

In each by the time I controlled 1/2 the Map with 25 plus cities

A huge map, and you control 1/2 land area w/ 25 cities. Those must be culture-rich cities.

Maybe someone should post this in the bug forum?

 

[Old&Slow]

Originally posted by Yumbo
A huge map, and you control 1/2 land area w/ 25 cities. Those must be culture-rich cities.

Maybe someone should post this in the bug forum?

1/2 of one of the large Continents. Should be a comma after" area ", and "control" was a bad choice of words.

Sorry that I didn`t express myself as well as you would like.

However that does not alter the fact that several players are experiencing " odd " resource placements in C3C.

 

[Yumbo]

Sorry that I didn`t express myself as well as you would like.

I wasn't criticizing or nitpicking. I was just surprised. I have probably 40+ cities on my Large map in the game I am currently playing, and I think I'm in control of less than 25%.

Maybe someone should post this in the bug forum?

This statement from my last post was meant to refer to the resource issue, NOT your anomolous controlling of so much land with so few cites.

So it's I who should be apologize for not expressing myself clearly. I completely agree that strategic resources in particular are out of whack.

 

[microbe]

Originally posted by TheNiceOne
So if you have a city that is very corrupted, corthouse etc. may reduce the corruption from 180% to 130%, and then it is capped at 90%.

LOL, corruption cannot be over 100%.

It looks like not everybody researched Mathematics yet.

 

[microbe]

Originally posted by akots


You knock and knock and even though sometime you hear some angry voice behind that door, in the end it will open. It is very exciting when you write and write about something, nobody seems to pay any attention, and in the end ... boom, it is right there.

Exactly.

Before 1.12 was out I used to scream a lot about "unnecessary improvements" - like combat system. A lot of people didn't agree with me, but in the end I surprisingly found that they decided to back out that change. I was happy.

 

[Dogmeat]

Uhh. Damn. Something bad happened. After installing the 1.13 patch I noticed that the conquests.biq didnt revert to normal (unlike other patches). so i decided to reinstall the patch and let it do its maintenance. but it deleted conquests.exe so now i cant play . And nothing else seems to be gone.
Then i tried reinstalling 1.12 patch but .exe file is still gone.
Can someone please send me a a copy of the .exe file?

 

[Turner]

Originally posted by DaveShack


In the last patch, it was possible to restart mid-game. The changes did not take effect for at least one turn because the recalculation needed to be done, and some people took that to mean that the changes didn't work. After a couple of end turns you should see corruption change to the new values.

This one should work the same way.

Thanks! My last game, the FP was practically useless. . . Wasn't even going to build one this game. But now I will.

 

[TedJackson]

Here's what I came up with to try and clarify what's actually happening.

Test Criteria:
Standard Map (100*100) all BG (modified to 3 food, 10 Shields, 10 Commerce)
Place Ur (Capital) at 25,49
Build ring, starting from 12 O'clock and moving clockwise, at distance 4/4.5
Sumer, Lagash, Kishm Umma, Bad-tibira, Agade, Erech & Isin
Place FP at 49,49
Build ring, starting from 12 O'clock and moving clockwise, at distance 4/4.5
Zabalam, Kisurra, Der, Kua, Marad, Kuara, Kutha, Nagsu
Give each city 2 Spears. Give the Capital & FP site 2 leaders.
Make each city pop 10 & give each city 100 culture points.
Place an extra settler 2SE of Capital & FP site
Place an AI start at 75, 25
Add Resource colonies (1 of each)


Start game as Sumeria, 1 AI opponent, Regent level, default rules, AI agression normal

4000BC:
Set sliders to 10.0.0
Fortify all units in place
Set all builds to wealth except Akshak (set to FP)
Save game
Wake leader in Akshak and hurry FP

Press button...

Note results

Before FP

After FP

The ranking comes from sorting the cities by production in the F1 screen.

In particular I don't understand the result for Zabalam, which at 3 tiles North of the FP has unexpectedly risen in (effective) rank, and Kua (3SE of FP) which has fallen in (effective rank).

It's good to see that the FP site isn't 2nd in the list after the FP has been built.

The 90% cap is also quite visible in the pre-FP listing (although at slightly less than expected.


Ted

 

[ERLoft]

I'd be interested to see what effect a courthouse would then have on those cities after building the FP...

 

[TedJackson]

@ ERLoft: The instructions are there if you want to try


Ted

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

Yeah a new patch.

 

[akots]

Originally posted by TedJackson
Here's what I came up with to try and clarify what's actually happening.

The system you have used is too complicated to make the test reliable and conclusions certain.
Is distance for distance corruption calculated from Palace of FP or closests of them?
Is distance for rank calculated from Palace or FP or closests of them?
And there are some more uknowns including that over-90%-corrupted cities where the distance component before FP is unknown.

 

[Gogf]

If I have a save from version 1.02C3C, will this upgrade it? I would assume no, but I heard it could.