TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
@akots: perhaps you could oblige us all with a more insightful analysis.
Ted
Ted
Beta Patch 1.13 Released
- Thread starter Micaelis Rex
- Start date
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
I guess, it was TedJacksons idea, to give some insight in the results of the working of FP(1.13), not to decypher the internal algorithms... [I will rank the FPs now, since we learned in the various "corruption threads" that there is an "old" FP, a "new" FP, a "new, but not THAT new" FP, a "new, but more like the old" FP, and "old, if not new"....
)I find the way in which TJ submits the results, is helpful to give an indication, whether the FP is useful now, and up to what extent.
So, I just say "thanks" to TJ and: "Good job!"
akots
Poet
Thanks for the inspiration, I will try. I followed the advice and did some more intelligent testing.
The following questions were asked:
1. Is distance for distance corruption calculated from Palace or the closest capital?
2. Is distance/rank for rank corruption calculated from Palace or the closest capital?
3. Does FP influence global distance corruption coefficient?
4. Does FP influence global rank corruption coefficient?
5. Does FP influence OCN?
6. What does FP do to the city when it is built?
The following tests were done with settings described previously:
1. Two cities were placed on the map, Capital and another rank 1 with rank corruption zero. This permits calculation of distance corruption coefficient if this city is placed as various distances. Then, third city with FP was added. This does not add any rank to the normal city which was verified in a separate test. FP was placed at various distances from normal city. For example, if distance of normal city from Palace was 6 (corruption 15.89% on tiny map) and FP was placed on distance more than 6, corruption in the normal city did not change. When FP was placed at a distance less than 6, corruption decreased to the values corresponding to those of that distance. For example, when FP was placed at distance 5, corruption decreased to 12.5%.
It is clear that distance corruption is calculated from the closest capital.
2. This a little bit more complicated test. On a standard size map, 32 RCP12 cities were placed. Distance corruption was determined separately for distance 12. Now rank corruption was determined by subtracting distance corruption from total corruption. Then, FP was placed at distance 18 from the Palace outside of the RCP12 ring. This changes distance corruption for 7 cities. These cities were at distance 12 from Palace. With FP they became distance 6, 7.5, 7.5, 9, 9, 10.5, and 10.5 from the closest capital (FP city). The distance corruption was again determined in a separate test with 2 cities only. Total corruption minus distance corruption for these cities gives rank corruption. Rank of the cities when sorted for rank corruption did not change from what is was before FP.
This means that rank is calculated from Palace. FP is not involved in rank calculations.
3. In a similar test, it was determined that FP does not influence global distance corruption coefficient
4. Data for rank corruption are shown in the plot:
It is evident that FP decreases rank corruption coefficient. In this particular difficulty/government (Chieftain/Democracy), rank coefficient was 2.27% per rank. With FP it became 1.86% per rank. Also, OCN is increased from 20 which is visible at 23 up to probably 25 which is visible at 28.
5. FP increases OCN approximately by 25%. This effect may vary on a number of factors including position of FP. These factors were not tested.
6. Edited again: The following is not true. There is something else in what happens to FP city itself. When FP is built in a city this negates distance corruption in that city. The city is automatically assigned rank 1 and corruption in this city corresponds to rank 1. Normal non-Palace rank 1 city is still rank 1 but also has distance corruption added to rank corruption. Edited: I am not sure about this, because it disagrees with Ted's test. May be, there are more other factors involved. I had no improvements in that or other cities, only FP and Palace.
There are still many questions regarding effects of courthouses, Police Stations, and WLTKD. Whether these were changed or not, has to be tested.
I am currently trying to simulate a model which might tell optimal location of FP city or at least give some guidelines how it can be determined.
This has been confirmed in private as an unintended side effect of the new terrain features. They are looking into it.
Well, if they weren't trying to work with us, and let us see into their development process a little, you would still have to wait until June, but you would have no idea what might come in the patch. This way, you can try the patches if you want, knowing they are *unofficial*, and things could change with every new patch released. Or you can just watch, and wait, and comment on what looks good, and what doesn't make sense. They key thing they are looking for is FEEDBACK. If something doesn't work right, or make sense, in a beta patch, they want to know about it.Originally posted by Longasc
The only thing I regret that now even *Patches* get Beta-Status when they are released... say we go the line "we do not use betatested software/patches", we would have to wait until June...
Personally, I am thrilled they are working so closely with their customers here, to make this the best game they can before they move onto CIv4.
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
Originally posted by Padma
This has been confirmed in private as an unintended side effect of the new terrain features. They are looking into it.
This very much sounds like they are finally hit by their own bad habit to hardcode not only algorithms, but parameters as well
I assume that somewhere in the code there is a percentage of how many plains, grass, deserts etc. on a given world setup are to be found (and to what extent they are to be used for ressources). Since they added marsh and volcanoes (changing the parameters) the formula (algorithm) doesn't work anymore.. .at least not correctly.
Ahhh... life can be nice, sometimes
Wow... it seems seven days is an eternity in CivFanatics time.
It's been about a week since I've had time to check the forums, and in that time Tavis has allowed a review of the actual corruption code, a new patch has been released, and the patch's changed corruption model has been tested, analysed, graphed and discussed. And that's just the couple of threads I've read so far. Phew.
I think I'll have to somehow find more time for checking CivFanatics... either that or quit my job
Anyway, just looking through the description of the corruption changes, I like what I'm seeing. It appears that corruption is at least manageable in the new model, and the FP has been restored to it's former glory.
Of course, the real test will be in playing an epic game, however that will have to wait until the weekend.
I am amazed at how responsive Firaxis are to their customers' requests. Thank you Firaxis.
It's been about a week since I've had time to check the forums, and in that time Tavis has allowed a review of the actual corruption code, a new patch has been released, and the patch's changed corruption model has been tested, analysed, graphed and discussed. And that's just the couple of threads I've read so far. Phew.
I think I'll have to somehow find more time for checking CivFanatics... either that or quit my job
Anyway, just looking through the description of the corruption changes, I like what I'm seeing. It appears that corruption is at least manageable in the new model, and the FP has been restored to it's former glory.
Of course, the real test will be in playing an epic game, however that will have to wait until the weekend.
I am amazed at how responsive Firaxis are to their customers' requests. Thank you Firaxis.
eyalb
Chieftain
i have a question :1. I installed the 1.12 and i got a message of " put the game disk... " what can i do with that ? i put the disk but it doesn't solve it ...
anarres
anarchist revolutionary
eyalb, if your disc is an original it should work. If your CD is damaged you should contact Atari by email (see you country's Atari site).
I think the going solution for that is to reinstall. Not quite sure tho. I know it was mention earlier in the thread. You might want to read through it and see.
Arrogant
Prince
If you have a virtual CD utility it may help to uninstall and then reinstall it.
kettyo
Seeker of Reality
It's not patch related.
It seems safedisc v3 checks your pc's memory for some programs (virtual cd emulators are surely checked) and when it finds something it refuses to start the cd.
It's quite an idiotism isn't it? :jump:
They leave you only 2 options.
1. You have to start to find out which program(s) safedisc don't like
2. You crack the protection.
(it's always in the main exe)
Damn!
[plasma]
:shotgun:
It seems safedisc v3 checks your pc's memory for some programs (virtual cd emulators are surely checked) and when it finds something it refuses to start the cd.
It's quite an idiotism isn't it? :jump:
They leave you only 2 options.
1. You have to start to find out which program(s) safedisc don't like
2. You crack the protection.
(it's always in the main exe)
Damn!
[plasma]
:shotgun:
I just thought I would also add this little note:
)
(Emphasis mine.
)
planetfall
Emperor
Ok, what is an unoffical patch mean?
Support
[ ] yes
[ ] no {presume no}
Feedback desired
[ ] yes {presume yes}
[ ] no
Alpha/Beta code on way to becoming official patch
[ ] yes {presume yes}
[ ] no
== pf
Support
[ ] yes
[ ] no {presume no}
Feedback desired
[ ] yes {presume yes}
[ ] no
Alpha/Beta code on way to becoming official patch
[ ] yes {presume yes}
[ ] no
== pf
planetfall: Your presumptions are correct (IMO).
1.13 was intended as a release to a small group of people, to see if some of the "fixes" to 1.12's problems were headed in the right direction. It's not even really an "Alpha" release.
1.13 was intended as a release to a small group of people, to see if some of the "fixes" to 1.12's problems were headed in the right direction. It's not even really an "Alpha" release.
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
Quite some years, since I've read Homer...
So, is it called an "Omega" release then? Or an "Alphta" release?
Charis
Realms Beyond
Ah yes, your language is Latin, not Greek. (Bellum, or Bello, is latin for 'war')
Releases follow a pattern something like this:
- Developer's release (should not make its way out of company)
- Alpha release (for bleeding edge early adopter users who are chosen for their zeal and ability to provide useful feedback)
- Closed beta (functionality more or less complete, looking for bugs and a good 'work out')
- Open beta (public, closer to final, one last chance to find bugs)
- Candidate release
- Golden Master (it's been sent to the CD-makers for publication)
Alpha's can be used to try out new things, check out if a new functionality works, but it's unsupported and in some cases 'risky'.
The first two releases are easy to remember, Alpha and Beta, as in Alphabet.
Charis
Releases follow a pattern something like this:
- Developer's release (should not make its way out of company)
- Alpha release (for bleeding edge early adopter users who are chosen for their zeal and ability to provide useful feedback)
- Closed beta (functionality more or less complete, looking for bugs and a good 'work out')
- Open beta (public, closer to final, one last chance to find bugs)
- Candidate release
- Golden Master (it's been sent to the CD-makers for publication)
Alpha's can be used to try out new things, check out if a new functionality works, but it's unsupported and in some cases 'risky'.
The first two releases are easy to remember, Alpha and Beta, as in Alphabet.
Charis
planetfall
Emperor
Charis,
It's too bad there isn't a more logical naming schema.
Alpha- developers release
Beta-- pre alpha
Gamma-- Alpha
Delta -- closed beta
Epsilon -- open beta
Zeta -- Candidate release
Omega -- gold master, FCS
But as the Fiddler on the Roof says, "Tradition, Tradition"
== PF
It's too bad there isn't a more logical naming schema.
Alpha- developers release
Beta-- pre alpha
Gamma-- Alpha
Delta -- closed beta
Epsilon -- open beta
Zeta -- Candidate release
Omega -- gold master, FCS
But as the Fiddler on the Roof says, "Tradition, Tradition"
== PF
anarres
anarchist revolutionary
You can get gamma releases (which come straight after beta releases), but they are pretty unusual.
Indeed!
The only "Gamma" I have been aware of is VBulletin 3.0, which is in Gamma Testing now ....
