Better RoM Discussion: Wonders

[NBAfan]

Yeah, I take my defeat. My opinion is clearly a minority about Colossus and Moai. But maybe I'll make it for my own use after 1.60, and make it available to other outlaws like me.

That is the great thing about Civ4, if you don't like it, change it!

 

[szemek77]

Yeah, I take my defeat. My opinion is clearly a minority about Colossus and Moai. But maybe I'll make it for my own use after 1.60, and make it available to other outlaws like me.

Believe it or not, but I don't treat this as victory/defeat category.

As NBAfan said, the beauty of that games is that one can make some little
tweaks by himself, if he feels such urge. For example I changed the GP frequency,
so I get more of them which I think is proper (as for bulbing techs) since we have 4 times more of them in RoM/AND than in regular CIV IV.

 

[civ_king]

Believe it or not, but I don't treat this as victory/defeat category.

As NBAfan said, the beauty of that games is that one can make some little
tweaks by himself, if he feels such urge. For example I changed the GP frequency,
so I get more of them which I think is proper (as for bulbing techs) since we have 4 times more of them in RoM/AND than in regular CIV IV.

will Afforess still be able to open saves? I see that as a simple tweak, but it just hides a problem that needs to be fixed,

maybe we should have it so after ages it increases, so it gives 1x until medieval when it yields 2x, industrial 3x modern 4x Transhuman 5x, and give them 4x bulb power and can research as many techs as it can, does this sound like a workable proposal?

 

[szemek77]

will Afforess still be able to open saves? I see that as a simple tweak, but it just hides a problem that needs to be fixed

I don't want to turn out selfish or rude, but I play not only for RoM/AND development but for my pleasure as well

maybe we should have it so after ages it increases, so it gives 1x until medieval when it yields 2x, industrial 3x modern 4x Transhuman 5x, and give them 4x bulb power and can research as many techs as it can, does this sound like a workable proposal?

I'm all in. I think there was a discussion about GP, and I always supported to enhance their abilities and frequency of appearing, mostly because they lost their power in RoM and AND. I don't know (or I just missed something) if Afforess has any plans in the area of GP.

 

[Afforess]

will Afforess still be able to open saves? I see that as a simple tweak, but it just hides a problem that needs to be fixed,

I don't want to turn out selfish or rude, but I play not only for RoM/AND development but for my pleasure as well

Don't we all? The whole point is so that we have the most fun game possible.

I'm all in. I think there was a discussion about GP, and I always supported to enhance their abilities and frequency of appearing, mostly because they lost their power in RoM and AND. I don't know (or I just missed something) if Afforess has any plans in the area of GP.

None Whatsoever.

 

[generalstaff]

I think that Women's Suffrage should be made a National Wonder and Mount Rushmore made a World Wonder (costs switched with each other for balance). My reasoning for this is that there is only one Mount Rushmore but to my knowledge, all democracies allow women to vote. I guess that means that Women's Suffrage should also require the Democracy civic.

 

[Afforess]

I think that Women's Suffrage should be made a National Wonder and Mount Rushmore made a World Wonder (costs switched with each other for balance). My reasoning for this is that there is only one Mount Rushmore but to my knowledge, all democracies allow women to vote.

Probably a good idea.

I guess that means that Women's Suffrage should also require the Democracy civic.

You don't need to have a democracy to hold an election.

 

[generalstaff]

You don't need to have a democracy to hold an election.

True enough. For Fascist, Communist, and Despotism, women get the right to vote for the dictator or get disappeared.

 

[Killtech]

KonradCabral, here is the forumula from the SDK for the inflation rate:

Spoiler :

int CvPlayer::calculateInflationRate() const
{
	int iTurns = ((GC.getGameINLINE().getGameTurn() + GC.getGameINLINE().getElapsedGameTurns()) / 2);

	if (GC.getGameINLINE().getMaxTurns() > 0)
	{
		iTurns = std::min(GC.getGameINLINE().getMaxTurns(), iTurns);
	}

	iTurns += GC.getGameSpeedInfo(GC.getGameINLINE().getGameSpeedType()).getInflationOffset();

	if (iTurns <= 0)
	{
		return 0;
	}

	int iInflationPerTurnTimes10000 = GC.getGameSpeedInfo(GC.getGameINLINE().getGameSpeedType()).getInflationPercent();
	iInflationPerTurnTimes10000 *= GC.getHandicapInfo(getHandicapType()).getInflationPercent();
	iInflationPerTurnTimes10000 /= 100;

	int iModifier = m_iInflationModifier;
	if (!isHuman() && !isBarbarian())
	{
		int iAIModifier = GC.getHandicapInfo(GC.getGameINLINE().getHandicapType()).getAIInflationPercent();
		iAIModifier *= std::max(0, ((GC.getHandicapInfo(GC.getGameINLINE().getHandicapType()).getAIPerEraModifier() * getCurrentEra()) + 100));
		iAIModifier /= 100;

		iModifier += iAIModifier - 100;
	}

/************************************************************************************************/
/* REVOLUTION_MOD                         01/31/08                                jdog5000      */
/*                                                                                              */
/* Reduced inflation cost for rebels                                                            */
/************************************************************************************************/
	if( isRebel() )
		iModifier -= 50;
/************************************************************************************************/
/* REVOLUTION_MOD                          END                                                  */
/************************************************************************************************/
	iInflationPerTurnTimes10000 *= std::max(0, 100 + iModifier);
	iInflationPerTurnTimes10000 /= 100;

	// Keep up to second order terms in binomial series
	int iRatePercent = (iTurns * iInflationPerTurnTimes10000) / 100;
	iRatePercent += (iTurns * (iTurns - 1) * iInflationPerTurnTimes10000 * iInflationPerTurnTimes10000) / 2000000;

	FAssert(iRatePercent >= 0);

	return iRatePercent;
}

ahmm... not sure but does this code really work as intended?

this code just says that if the iModifier is changes and quite a lot of turns has passed (iTurns is large) then the returned iRatePercent will heavly jump. if i get the concept of inflation right overall inflation (the code allways referes to the original money value at the game start, right?) should not change when i switch my civics but it should rather increase each turn a bit less or more.

i think the original code must rewritten because an infaltion change modifier means that you cannot derice overall inflation form iTurns anymore and are foced to save the current inflation for each civ so you can modify its increase per turn.

 

[Afforess]

ahmm... not sure but does this code really work as intended?

this code just says that if the iModifier is changes and quite a lot of turns has passed (iTurns is large) then the returned iRatePercent will heavly jump. if i get the concept of inflation right overall inflation (the code allways referes to the original money value at the game start, right?) should not change when i switch my civics but it should rather increase each turn a bit less or more.

i think the original code must rewritten because an infaltion change modifier means that you cannot derice overall inflation form iTurns anymore and are foced to save the current inflation for each civ so you can modify its increase per turn.

Yes, your fears are founded. Inflation builds off of Inflation, it's exponential.

 

[civ_king]

**** just like real life, so that means the earlier you adopt the inflation lowering civics the more exponentially powerful they become

 

[Killtech]

Yes, your fears are founded. Inflation builds off of Inflation, it's exponential.

yeah i know that about inflation. but when you intend to change the inflation factor you cannot calculate it form iTurns anymore because if you do so the gold loss form inflation will immensely go up or down form one day to another when you switch civics, independently from the inflation history!

the formula must be like:
fOverallInflationNow = fOverallInflationLastTrun * (fInflationRate+fModifier) ;
...
fOverallInflationLastTrun = fOverallInflationNow;

or to be consisten with the old (polynomial=linear+square) inflation model from Civ:
fOverallInflationNow = fOverallInflationLastTrun + (fInflationRate+fModifier) + (fConstFactor*(fInflationRate+fModifier))^2 ;


this line here is wrong i think:
int iRatePercent = (iTurns * iInflationPerTurnTimes10000) / 100;
becasue it does assume that for the last iTurns the inflation per turn was iInflationPerTurnTimes10000 which is wrong in case iModifier changed during the last iTurns turns because of this line:
iInflationPerTurnTimes10000 *= std::max(0, 100 + iModifier) ;
which means that iInflationPerTurnTimes10000 cannot(!) be assumed constant anymore.


alternatively you could change the functions interpretation to this: returns the inflation rate between last turn and this (would make the money loss through inflation correct). however this is evidently independent form iTurns, isn't it? it would be just iInflationPerTurnTimes10000/10000. this again might become game breaking because we have a gold overproduction in the modern ages, especially in RoM. maybe you could use the players money instead of iTurns in that case. still we would need a lot of additional maintenance form buildings to compensate a gold overflow.