Betting and Speculation - The "Entirely Separate Hypercube" Civ!

[Talcove]

Back to games with no UI other than some scattered about ASCII characters. Enough of the fluff.

I like Fluff...

How about this for a "hypercube" Venice:

UA: All trade routes with other civs generate (a competitively scaling amount of) science, even when ahead. All science generated by buildings, improvements, and Natural Wonders is converted into culture. Starts with a free Cargo Ship (and can build replacements at Agriculture).

The playstyle emphasizes Trade Routes and the civ has high culture and tourism.

But then you're completely dependent on other players. In the beginning of the game you only have yourself. How are you supposed to generate science if your science bonuses from buildings is turned into culture? And what if a lot of people go to war with you, how will you get your science then?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I like Fluff...



But then you're completely dependent on other players. In the beginning of the game you only have yourself. How are you supposed to generate science if your science bonuses from buildings is turned into culture? And what if a lot of people go to war with you, how will you get your science then?

1) Discover a trade partner as soon as possible.

2) You still have your innate science from population to use as a crutch for the few turns before someone shows up at your door. You're only truly screwed on an isolated continent.

3) Don't piss off a lot of civs at one time.

 

[m15a]

1) Discover a trade partner as soon as possible.

2) You still have your innate science from population to use as a crutch for the few turns before someone shows up at your door. You're only truly screwed on an isolated continent.

3) Don't piss off a lot of civs at one time.

you could also get a smaller science bonus from internal trade routes or if everyone hates you, you could focus on city states.

i think something like this idea makes a lot of sense. basically, you give up one big bonus that can be regained in some other way.

 

[Kizo]

How about this for a "hypercube" Venice:

UA: All trade routes with other civs generate (a competitively scaling amount of) science, even when ahead. All science generated by buildings, improvements, and Natural Wonders is converted into culture. Starts with a free Cargo Ship (and can build replacements at Agriculture).

Sounds fun for a mod, but it could never be an official UA. You're guaranteed to lose in multiplayer.

 

[mitsho]

Given the fact that people on facebook complained about Indonesia and Morocco as not worthy for a civ, it can very well be that they think just having Venice is a bombshell by themselves. I personally see them rather as the Holy Roman Empire of Civ5, the "fun" or "joke" civ. But that's okay and we're probably not getting them in the next civ game (when they'll go for Italy or some other civ of the region first).

Maybe it's a Swiss Civilization. Because it would be involving building next to or on mountains, and inability to expand through war because of permanent neutrality?

Quick history rant following.

Spoiler :

That's actually quite a common misconception. The Swiss Confederation sacked Milano and ended the Sforza dynasty (before ceding the city to the French), they defeated the Burgundians who were well on their way to become a separate country from France and were often very far from being neutral. That idea comes from the 30 Years War when the Confederation managed to avoid getting sucked into the war although being split half-half into Protestants and Catholics. And of course the founding of the Red Cross. And again being neutral after Napoleon's Wars and in WW1 which stems mostly from the fact that you needed to keep peace between the Swiss Germans and the Swiss French. But all in all, the term neutrality is a very hollow term.

 

[Calouste]

Given the fact that people on facebook complained about Indonesia and Morocco as not worthy for a civ, it can very well be that they think just having Venice is a bombshell by themselves. I personally see them rather as the Holy Roman Empire of Civ5, the "fun" or "joke" civ. But that's okay and we're probably not getting them in the next civ game (when they'll go for Italy or some other civ of the region first).



Quick history rant following.

Spoiler :

That's actually quite a common misconception. The Swiss Confederation sacked Milano and ended the Sforza dynasty (before ceding the city to the French), they defeated the Burgundians who were well on their way to become a separate country from France and were often very far from being neutral. That idea comes from the 30 Years War when the Confederation managed to avoid getting sucked into the war although being split half-half into Protestants and Catholics. And of course the founding of the Red Cross. And again being neutral after Napoleon's Wars and in WW1 which stems mostly from the fact that you needed to keep peace between the Swiss Germans and the Swiss French. But all in all, the term neutrality is a very hollow term.

And no one really wanted to mess with the Swiss until Napoleon, because armies in those days were mostly made up of mercenaries, and a lot of mercenaries were Swiss.

 

[Montezumas Hat]

I'm gonna shoot a couple ideas out, just cause.

First, all the people saying Pueblo is definitely out have a point; why announce a civ that early, then re-announce it later? Nonetheless, I think they're still a possibility if only because creating a brand new Civ takes a lot more work than appeasing the people who shot it down. Especially if all they had to do to get their blessing was change the leader.

But assuming they're out? It's hard to say. Another great point was made, that this civ, assuming this hypercube praise wasn't just fluff, has to be fundamentally different, not just different.

If it's the remaining unknown civ (making the healthy assumption Venice is in), we have very little to go on. Maybe it's another NA civ, but at the same time, they might have just adapted Pueblo's UA for the different civ.

A thought I had though: I don't know exactly what was in the PAX talk, so maybe this is already wrong, but one thing that could be different AND Pueblo would be building on Mountain tiles. Maybe, when they lost Pueblo, they decided to go again with the idea of bonuses for building on specific tiles.

What unused Civs could take advantage of that? Venice. Giving them embarkable Settlers is one idea. Also, for more accuracy, what if they got massive bonuses for building on marshes? There only one Civ taking advantage of them right now, and that's for their UI. But what if Venice got a massive bonus to each city built on a marsh tile? For example, each city on a marsh gets some amount of gold, happiness and culture?

Another idea that I had while writing this: all tiles (Water or land) in Venice's capital give extra gold and culture. It'll probably have more to do with trade routes realistically, but it does address the fact that Venice is known for the city specifically, and accounts for their rich culture and massive trade.

It'd fit more like that in Vanilla than BNW, but still. Just trying to come up with some different out-of-the-hypercube ideas.

 

[awesome]

I'm thinking that Morocco got some of the bonuses that were supposed to go to the Pueblo, like the unit with the desert bonus.

 

[blash]

i have two more or less new ideas to throw into the field.

for one we expect a native american civ to be released. the civ was also hinted with a "hypercube" reference which is a canadian movie.
are there any possible native american civs on canadian territory?


the other idea also leads with the canada hint.
furthermore it was said that the civ would introduce a completely unique playstyle.
since the swiss way of being at piece with everyone was mentioned just a few posts above: wouldnt canada be a perfect candidate for a nation that is not able to declare war on anyone?
some might ask how to win a domination victory with a civ like that.
well... we still have the barbarian tomahawk units. maybe canada has a way to warmonger to a lesser degree with the use of units camouflaged as barbarians.


edit: and another canada hint: "entirely separate", since canada separated itself from britain.

 

[ldvhl]

are there any possible native american civs on canadian territory?

Plenty, though I doubt they'd have much of a chance to be represented in CiV. There's the Sḵwxwú7mesh, Haida (ruled out by alphabet theory), Lingít (again, alphabet theory unless they use the exonym of Tlingit), Ktunaxa (alphabet), Anishinaabe (alphabet), Niitsítapi (alphabet), Nakoda (ruled out via alphabet unless the exonym Stoney is used), Cree (aka the Iron Confederacy), Algonquin (alphabet), Ojibwe (alphabet), Odaawaa (alphabet), Wyandot, and dozens of others I wouldn't be confident enough to recommend.

 

[Calouste]

i have two more or less new ideas to throw into the field.

for one we expect a native american civ to be released. the civ was also hinted with a "hypercube" reference which is a canadian movie.
are there any possible native american civs on canadian territory?


the other idea also leads with the canada hint.
furthermore it was said that the civ would introduce a completely unique playstyle.
since the swiss way of being at piece with everyone was mentioned just a few posts above: wouldnt canada be a perfect candidate for a nation that is not able to declare war on anyone?
some might ask how to win a domination victory with a civ like that.
well... we still have the barbarian tomahawk units. maybe canada has a way to warmonger to a lesser degree with the use of units camouflaged as barbarians.


edit: and another canada hint: "entirely separate", since canada separated itself from britain.

I wouldn't call two countries that have the same head of state "entirely separate".

 

[JFD]

I wouldn't call two countries that have the same head of state "entirely separate".

They don't. Queen Elizabeth II is Queen of Canada independently of her Queenship of the UK.

 

[kingchris20]

Wouldn't it be cool if the "Entirely Separate Hypercube" civ was the Firaxis Dynasty and its UA was the ability to release BNW WORLDWIDE on the 3rd of June!

 

[Calouste]

They don't. Queen Elizabeth II is Queen of Canada independently of her Queenship of the UK.

Ok, the same person as head of state then.

 

[tranger66]

Ok, the same person as head of state then.

I think her major task is preventing Prince Charles from being on our money. The likelyhood of Canada as a civ is very low but Canada is quite separate from England in practice. Just because we didn't fight a war for independence doesn't mean we are still controlled by the Monarchy.

 

[m15a]

Wouldn't it be cool if the "Entirely Separate Hypercube" civ was the Firaxis Dynasty and its UA was the ability to release BNW WORLDWIDE on the 3rd of June!

"The 9th civilization is you, the fans. You've had the power all along."

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

Amen. A video game is an experience. Animations, music, etc is all integral to the game. I care a lot about that kind of stuff, which is why I don't consider it fluff. I never played the first 4 civs because there was no visual appeal for me

There is a diverse audience for Civ. Different people value different things, crazy huh?

The word 'objective' means it does not vary by point of view. The information I was giving you is that the different values of players is nothing at all to do with the common usage of that word as applied to the anatomy of games. It's difficult not to let negative feelings creep in now with that kind of antagonistic remark.
This has nothing to do with value. I was just telling you 'fluff' is the name of the thing you were describing.

Your point, is that fluff is as or more important than crunch. Great. We aren't arguing, except about you disliking a word with absolutely no etymology for some reason.

 

[Pedro P]

Wouldn't it be cool if the "Entirely Separate Hypercube" civ was the Firaxis Dynasty and its UA was the ability to release BNW WORLDWIDE on the 3rd of June!

UB: Venice discussion thread: gives your civ 5 . Upon being constructed all the specialists on the city will join the discussion, lose their time, and stop giving any bonus to the city. May spawn a great prophet.

 

[m15a]

The word 'objective' means it does not vary by point of view. The information I was giving you is that the different values of players is nothing at all to do with the common usage of that word as applied to the anatomy of games. It's difficult not to let negative feelings creep in now with that kind of antagonistic remark.
This has nothing to do with value. I was just telling you 'fluff' is the name of the thing you were describing.

the problem is that the word "fluff" has well-known definitions that are subjective: "something of no consequence."

anyway, is this definition of "fluff" to refer to visual elements used a lot when talking about video games? i'm curious because the term is used, contrasted with "crunch," when talking about roleplaying games (not on the computer) but has a different meaning as far as i know.

 

[Buccaneer]

I don't understand the word "crunch" in this context. Elaborate? But then again, I don't understand role playing at all either.