[Beyond the Sword] History In The Making

[DrewBledsoe]

Quick thought on HITM and the new patch 3.17.....(which I'm not downloading as I only play HITM, and HITM won't be compatable, even though I'm reading all the threads..)

Well without a huge revision, they just can't work together. Main reason, is there is now a "no espionage" option (which at present seems very ho hum, as you can still build the espionage buildings, but they provide culture with this option on AND you can still assign spy specialists which provide neutral GP points )....anyways sorry, the main reason is that Grave introduced the Cunning trait which obviously NEEDS espionage to always be switched on...

So to include 3.17 either means discarding the "no espionage" option, or removing the cunning trait altogether.....

Hmmmm, just one obvious point I thought needed mentioning....

And I noticed Solver has already started work on his latest "unofficial official patch" of the official 3.17 patch

Civ IV is now more patched than a hippy's jeans at the original Woodstock

 

[Healz]

Oh, well it requires all sorts of options. I think they did introduce some good things in the 3.17 patch.

 

[ruffriders23]

HITM is a great mod and I play World of Civilization too. Both are big mods with lots of options. I am sure taking a single item out or tweaking it to work with or around the 3.17 patch will still keep the mod at the level I love!

 

[Hyronymus]

HITM is a great mod and I play World of Civilization too. Both are big mods with lots of options. I am sure taking a single item out or tweaking it to work with or around the 3.17 patch will still keep the mod at the level I love!

Same for me, but I have no clue how difficult working around it is. I guess it depends on the internals for the mod and the patch. I considered updating but decided not to update yet, because I don't want to play BtS without HiTM.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

HITM uses a lot of other people's mod components within itself (obvious examples are Bug and DCM), these will probably all need the respective creators to update them to 3.17 before any upgrading work could take place.

As well HITM still generally works ok as now with 3.13, and as we all know is almost a different animal from CIV IV in its own right, it has so much changed gameplay......

Its still (obviously) up to Grave, if and hopefully when he comes back to his mod...

 

[Healz]

Yes, hopefully he will be able to do an update on his mod. I expect we will see a rash of changes of these ones. I was never actually though to modify the Bug mod as when I did the game froze totally on me. Oh, well. I can play HiTM without making an changes to the Bug.

 

[Greybriar]

Just my luck--I finally get this mod working properly and a patch comes out which prevents it from running.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

Just my luck--I finally get this mod working properly and a patch comes out which prevents it from running.

You don't have to patch

 

[Greybriar]

You don't have to patch

I already did, obviously. Hopefully the mod will be updated soon.

 

[ruffriders23]

I know the feeling... I just happened to check in the game to see if there was an update and it downloaded and installed it. I didn't think about the mods not working with it.

 

[Healz]

Yes, I did as well without really thinking about it since they said that it worked with 3.13 saved games. Hopefully this will be updated soon...

 

[Anthropoid]

. . . Patchaxis strikes again . . . I say we boycott this _CRAP!_ next time they want us to buy their stuff!

. . . oh yeah. I forgot. We're CivFANATICS. They know they got us over a barrel don't they . . . *sigh*

 

[Hyronymus]

. . . Patchaxis strikes again . . . I say we boycott this _CRAP!_ next time they want us to buy their stuff!

. . . oh yeah. I forgot. We're CivFANATICS. They know they got us over a barrel don't they . . . *sigh*

What are you on about? Did Firaxis steal your wit or free will when you updated? *sigh*

 

[Anthropoid]

I have not updated, and probably won't till it seems likely HiTM will be compatible. Patchaxis didn't steal anything from me, especially my "free will"/ability to complain!

Civ IV [touted as "most moddable Civ YET!" during pre-sales period]~$60 + Warlords~$45(?) + BTS~$50 + bugs in all versions requiring at least one patch DL for all versions (and not just minor bugs, but major ones that affect basic gameplay) + "2K does not support Mods" + patch after patch which are generally not backwards compatible, creating more work for modmakers if not insurmountable obstacles + prospects of true strategy elements like very, VERY big maps have been sacrificed for the sake of pretty pictures . . . Like I said, Patchaxis strikes again.

I don't BLAME them for going with the flow of the market-which is so heavily influenced by FPS and RTS genres-but I can still complain about it can't I?

If we don't complain, they won't feel pain, and it will continue the same.

 

[Psyringe]

It's really interesting how all the impressive work that Bhruic and the community have done immediately turns to "_CRAP_" in your eyes after becoming part of an official release by Firaxis.

Anyway, no one stops you from not using 3.17, just enjoy playing this excellent mod in 3.13. In the meantime, I'd be glad if you had the decency to not spoil a mod thread with unwarranted flames against Firaxis which have no relation to this mod.

 

[Hyronymus]

It's really interesting how all the impressive work that Bhruic and the community have done immediately turns to "_CRAP_" in your eyes after becoming part of an official release by Firaxis.

Anyway, no one stops you from not using 3.17, just enjoy playing this excellent mod in 3.13. In the meantime, I'd be glad if you had the decency to not spoil a mod thread with unwarranted flames against Firaxis which have no relation to this mod.

That sums up my point quite nicely. It's always easy to comment on something you're not involved in. Firaxis has more things to concern about tham the Civ4 community. And Civ4 is more modable than Civ1-3. But it's everyone's right to disagree with what Firaxis does, but please use the proper forum section for that.

 

[Anthropoid]

It's really interesting how all the impressive work that Bhruic and the community have done immediately turns to "_CRAP_" in your eyes after becoming part of an official release by Firaxis.

Anyway, no one stops you from not using 3.17, just enjoy playing this excellent mod in 3.13. In the meantime, I'd be glad if you had the decency to not spoil a mod thread with unwarranted flames against Firaxis which have no relation to this mod.

That sums up my point quite nicely. It's always easy to comment on something you're not involved in. Firaxis has more things to concern about tham the Civ4 community. And Civ4 is more modable than Civ1-3. But it's everyone's right to disagree with what Firaxis does, but please use the proper forum section for that.

"Flames?" Complaining about how Firaxis product delivery, market design, and accessorization policies and procedures, combined with lack of customer support, and premature launching of buggy apps constitutes "flaming?"

I would appreciate it if you had the decency to be solidary with your CivFanatics comrades!

Um, do you guys work for Firaxis? Or maybe you are just not understanding what I'm saying?

I have no complaint with Bhruic, nor with the community. I am "not involved in" that. What I AM involved in is paying through the nose for a product that was broken on day 1, and moreover was structured for maximum market saturation, and not to actually satisfy in the first go. That is Firaxis responsbility, the guys I (and WE) PAID for this crap.

And it is related to this thread and this Mod because this thread and this mod have now been impacted by this initial crappy workmanship by Firaxis.

"Firaxis has more things to concern about tham the Civ4 community" !?!

Correct me if I'm wrong but, the Civ series is Firaxis crown jewel. And yet, the out of the box version of that jewel is about half what it was touted to be, plus it was broken and needed patches. Then they con us into buying an "Expansion" Warlords, which has a couple simple game-engine/rules additions, and is basically a glorified scenario package . . . for $40 to $50!

Then when you try to get a bit of support or guidance from the company that owns this circus (2K) you get "We do not support Mods."

THEN they give us the version that frankly should have been _the_ CIV4 in the first place, BTS, and yet still more patches necessary, which consequently (and here is where it takes on real and immediate significance for the topic of this thread) has screwed up the HiTM mod.

There are some guys playing this mod who are grumbling because the new patch has nerfed their entertainment. 2K and Patchaxis response to this is "We do not support mods" so you are on your own.

In sum, Firaxis is responsible for the problem. If we all just complain to Firaxis about issues like this (even on behalf of our fellow fans, players, modders, newbs, grognards, etc. when we have not actually suffered any impact) instead of just forgetting it and chalking it up to "they've got better things to do," and "you have a choice. You didn't have to choose to buy the game, nor patch it up . . ." maybe we can dissuade them from pulling this crap continually.

 

[Psyringe]

Ah well, this argument really is far too ridiculous to waste any time with it. I'll just remove my subscription of this thread and come back when focus has returned to modding.

Grave, sorry that I was feeding the troll. Your mod doesn't deserve such silly off-topic debates. I should've simply ignored it, I'll do so now.

Baseless accusations like those above were exactly what drove Alexman away from this site. Sometimes I really feel ashamed of being a part of CFC.

 

[mamba]

I have no complaint with Bhruic, nor with the community. I am "not involved in" that. What I AM involved in is paying through the nose for a product that was broken on day 1, and moreover was structured for maximum market saturation, and not to actually satisfy in the first go. That is Firaxis responsbility, the guys I (and WE) PAID for this crap.

Well, then don't do so next time, did you buy the expansions too ? Hadn't you learned your lesson by then ?

Then when you try to get a bit of support or guidance from the company that owns this circus (2K) you get "We do not support Mods."

And how possibly could they ? But of course reason does not keep you from flaming.

THEN they give us the version that frankly should have been _the_ CIV4 in the first place, BTS, and yet still more patches necessary, which consequently (and here is where it takes on real and immediate significance for the topic of this thread) has screwed up the HiTM mod.

Civ 4 was a good game in its own right, it also was close to Civ 3 (unit and tech wise), so it is not like they short changed you. Of course expansion add to a game, that is their main intent, many companies do that. Could you release still more stuff in an expansion ? sure, it's not like there is not anything left to add (just witness all the mods here), so why is BtS what Civ should have been, why not go further ? Civ 4 was an updated Civ 3 to me, it did not miss much (if anything) compared to Civ 3.

There are some guys playing this mod who are grumbling because the new patch has nerfed their entertainment. 2K and Patchaxis response to this is "We do not support mods" so you are on your own.

Then don't patch on day 1, wait for an update to the mod before you do. It would have been the sane choice, but no, you install the patch which you did not need in the first place and then complain about something you knew was coming (or at the very least should have known).

So now you are left with two choices again, reinstall civ and patch 3.13 and continue playing the mod, or wait for an update to the mod. Firaxis CANNOT support mods, should they not fix bugs just because a few people would need to get updated mods ?

Your only point is they should not have bugs, hence no patch, hence no broken mod. But that is just impossible (less bugs : maybe, none : no way).

So don't buy col, don't buy Civ 5 and don't go on flaming in this thread for things which cannot be prevented and for doing something stupid (installing the patch) when you should have known better.

Imo you have more reason to be mad at yourself than at Firaxis.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

Guys, everyone's entitled to their own opinions, let's not start a flaming war ok, pls