[RD] Blizzard gets sued by DFEH (State of California worker's equity agency)

[amadeus]

It sounds like the company blew it bigly, and if it goes to trial then it's just going to generate even more negative press. The biggest surprise to me though is that the people who make these games, including some executives themselves, are living and breathing negative stereotypes of the "hard-core gamer."

Page 15 of the complaint also calls him Bill Crosby. Can't say I'm familiar; should I google him?

Spoiler can I put jokes in here? :

or should I use Bing?

Spoiler :

Like Bing Crosby.

 

[Moriarte]

The biggest surprise to me though is that the people who make these games, including some executives themselves, are living and breathing negative stereotypes of the "hard-core gamer."

Did you expect sporty church goers making Diablo? Tip of the iceberg, I say.

 

[amadeus]

Did you expect sporty church goers making Diablo? Tip of the iceberg, I say.

A large portion of the rank-and-file code monkeys, no. But not the whole corporate structure going up even into personnel and the more mundane aspects of a company.

 

[Farm Boy]

The mundane aspects of A Corporation worship God Money.

"It's just business" is always a lie. But if one repeats a lie often enough, it's what they actually are. Consider that one's legacy is always vulnerable to ending on the spot. You have never been promised tomorrow.

 

[Samson]

Have you ever work with mix gender team that most of the time drunk during working hours? how is it going?

I'm seriously curious, not trying to argumentatively trap you or anything, because I never encounter or experience anything like that.

I can tell you the story of my first proper* job. The place to go for lunch was the pub, and everyone who was not organised enough to bring in a packed lunch went (probably 80% of the company, including women). The drinks were bought in rounds, so if you did not keep up you "lost" money. There were 3 or 4 rounds per lunch, so basically everyone drank 3 or 4 pints every lunchtime, including top management. Most of the work was at a desk, but when something went wrong you had to drive to site. There were a few times that I drove hundreds of miles after 4 pints, and many people did a lot more driving than me. Looking back on it I cannot understand how we got away with it. This was in the last years of the last millenium.

* for some values of proper

 

[H4run]

I can tell you the story of my first proper* job. The place to go for lunch was the pub, and everyone who was not organised enough to bring in a packed lunch went (probably 80% of the company, including women). The drinks were bought in rounds, so if you did not keep up you "lost" money. There were 3 or 4 rounds per lunch, so basically everyone drank 3 or 4 pints every lunchtime, including top management. Most of the work was at a desk, but when something went wrong you had to drive to site. There were a few times that I drove hundreds of miles after 4 pints, and many people did a lot more driving than me. Looking back on it I cannot understand how we got away with it. This was in the last years of the last millenium.

* for some values of proper

Do the situation makes some peoples loosen their tongue and behavior and sometime lead to something close to pass or somewhat passed the border? Because when you drink, and you just let go, you can just be loose, like far from the sober version of you kind of loose, especially in group, this loose and reckless behavior will be reinforce by other, not being obnoxious or offensive can be count as prude and kind a being a living bummer, ruins the group mood.

A decent and respectful person can become kind of a jerk on a group setting, add alcohol to it and things can go really wild.

 

[Fippy]

Does this mean World of Warcraft will finally go away?
But in all seriousness, Blizz used to make top games long ago (stuff like Warcraft 2 or C&C are still eternal classics), then imo they started milking their fanbase and severely hurting the mmorpg genre (personal opinion but i stand by it).

I could argue their leaders felt untouchable since their Micky Mouse game had so much success, and this was picked up by their employees..but who knows.
Anyways i'd be happy if they sink at this point, even if i still have Warcraft 2 installed.

 

[Deadly Dog]

To think that just last week I was seriously considering reactivating my old WoW account and trying out a WoW Classic server.

Well, I have a queue of other video games to try, some old and some new. I really hated what those frat boys did to WoW after Burning Crusade, not even knowing a thing about their toxic workplace culture.

The only workplace where I saw liquid lunches even tolerated was in the financial sector in the late 80's early 90's. It couldn't be done regularly, but after work drinking was much more common and heavy. It was a student job for me never once entertained the idea of making a career there, it was very "Bonfire of the Vanities" and the fantasy of getting rich kept a lot of people in jobs where they put up with crazy BS and develop some nasty addictions.

That said, I spent years working in forestry, an industry normally dominated by men but in a subsection where the company I worked for achieved gender parity for the most part. Drinking was strictly reserved for "after work", there was zero tolerance of sexual harassment, and safety was top priority for staff, not just on paper but also in practice, where the needs of productivity and quality can put pressure on people. But man, when the shift ended, the parties were by no means tame...we did have to designate one or two peeps every party to staying sober, as all this took place in remote bush camps.

As in, I don't blame alcohol alone for what happens at Blizzard!

 

[Samson]

Do the situation makes some peoples loosen their tongue and behavior and sometime lead to something close to pass or somewhat passed the border? Because when you drink, and you just let go, you can just be loose, like far from the sober version of you kind of loose, especially in group, this loose and reckless behavior will be reinforce by other, not being obnoxious or offensive can be count as prude and kind a being a living bummer, ruins the group mood.

A decent and respectful person can become kind of a jerk on a group setting, add alcohol to it and things can go really wild.

I never saw anything I classed as inappropriate, but this was my first job so sort of defined what I thought was appropriate professional behaviour. This was an environment where calendars with full frontal nudity of both genders were acceptable in the office, and shouting at underlings was an acceptable management technique.

 

[Angst]

Puritans always apply to the situation. Prohibition was passed on a beaten and impoverished wives platform. Beating and impoverishing disempowered women is a society-level issue. But the cockroaches always cite the good when they overreach. We need voting-security reform, remember? Step one to step two, sorry if I "jumped" the conversation. I thought the obviously bad was obvious. But ok. Since this is where we seem to be: "DRUNK CRAWLY *******S ARE BAD."

There, I actually said that. A "professional" level assessment. Maybe I deserve a raise now?

Thanks for clarifying what you mean I don't personally disagree with this, no.

It sounds like the company blew it bigly, and if it goes to trial then it's just going to generate even more negative press. The biggest surprise to me though is that the people who make these games, including some executives themselves, are living and breathing negative stereotypes of the "hard-core gamer."

Page 15 of the complaint also calls him Bill Crosby. Can't say I'm familiar; should I google him?

Spoiler can I put jokes in here? :

or should I use Bing?

Spoiler :

Like Bing Crosby.

To be clear, yes, Crosby was a typo.

Does this mean World of Warcraft will finally go away?
But in all seriousness, Blizz used to make top games long ago (stuff like Warcraft 2 or C&C are still eternal classics), then imo they started milking their fanbase and severely hurting the mmorpg genre (personal opinion but i stand by it).

I could argue their leaders felt untouchable since their Micky Mouse game had so much success, and this was picked up by their employees..but who knows.
Anyways i'd be happy if they sink at this point, even if i still have Warcraft 2 installed.

Some of the post-suit claims online (that is, unsubstantiated, but worth taking into consideration) from workers note that much of the leadership thought WoW/Blizzard was too big to fail. Ie the leadership did feel it was untouchable.

EDIT: So I had to do this on my phone where I couldn't figure out multiquoting, some of you may not have been alerted to the quote tag (dunno how CFC works here)

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Does this mean World of Warcraft will finally go away?
But in all seriousness, Blizz used to make top games long ago (stuff like Warcraft 2 or C&C are still eternal classics), then imo they started milking their fanbase and severely hurting the mmorpg genre (personal opinion but i stand by it).

I could argue their leaders felt untouchable since their Micky Mouse game had so much success, and this was picked up by their employees..but who knows.
Anyways i'd be happy if they sink at this point, even if i still have Warcraft 2 installed.

At least for me personally, Blizzard started to decline after WarCraft 3 times while they still had Bill Roper. Pretty long ago now. WoW never did anything for me, but I wasn't an MMO guy at any point in my life so I could give that a theoretical pass. After that, SC2 mostly avoided screwing up too much/giving SC1 some new units + better UI. Their other games have been rough, and the re-release of WC3 was a joke.

The dumpster fire they are today doesn't take away their older games being good. Civ 4 is still a good game. The HOMM 3 team doesn't exist anymore, and that's still a good game. Even EA has some good games if you go back far enough. I guess the hubris of "too big to fail" and changes in leadership catch up to companies eventually.

 

[Senethro]

At least for me personally, Blizzard started to decline after WarCraft 3 times while they still had Bill Roper. Pretty long ago now. WoW never did anything for me, but I wasn't an MMO guy at any point in my life so I could give that a theoretical pass. After that, SC2 mostly avoided screwing up too much/giving SC1 some new units + better UI. Their other games have been rough, and the re-release of WC3 was a joke.

The dumpster fire they are today doesn't take away their older games being good. Civ 4 is still a good game. The HOMM 3 team doesn't exist anymore, and that's still a good game. Even EA has some good games if you go back far enough. I guess the hubris of "too big to fail" and changes in leadership catch up to companies eventually.

Uhhhh, no? Whats coming out is looking like they were always a dumpster fire and just because they put out games you liked doesn't mean they weren't?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Uhhhh, no? Whats coming out is looking like they were always a dumpster fire and just because they put out games you liked doesn't mean they weren't?

The allegations are certainly detailed and damning, but looking through links on OP, I'm not seeing much in the way of definitive dates? This has obviously been going on a long time, but there is a difference between "10 years" and "30 years". Both are a long time for allegations which should be investigated and acted on one way or another in a small fraction of a year.

 

[Angst]

The allegations are certainly detailed and damning, but looking through links on OP, I'm not seeing much in the way of definitive dates? This has obviously been going on a long time, but there is a difference between "10 years" and "30 years". Both are a long time for allegations which should be investigated and acted on one way or another in a small fraction of a year.

The Cosby thing was in 2000something (there was an article on it; I'd like to note that the OP is very incomplete with all that's out, but that's on me, it is simply so taxing to go through), but whether it's back to times of say Warcraft: Orcs and Humans, I don't know.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The Cosby thing was in 2000something (there was an article on it; I'd like to note that the OP is very incomplete with all that's out, but that's on me, it is simply so taxing to go through), but whether it's back to times of say Warcraft: Orcs and Humans, I don't know.

Roper left in ~2003 or something though, and a lot of other staff that made the good games were gone either by then or shortly after. He might have been involved, but my present theory is that the successors to one of the greatest game design companies ever tanked the culture and abused its employees. Likely increasingly more so as it became clear that having your name be "Blizzard" is not a guarantee.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Perhaps Blizzard has gone through Normal and Nightmare and is now experiencing Hell?

 

[Yeekim]

The Cosby thing was in 2000something

According to wiki, allegations against Cosby were first raised in 2014.
But having a "Cosby-themed room" in "2000something" is now an evidence of something horrible?

 

[Gelion]

Regardless of the outcome, I could almost bet that the likelihood of Blizzard or Blizzard Activision of producing anything groundbreaking and short of remakes is close to zero. At best we'll get an "immersive Overwatch II VR experience" or some variation of it.

 

[Angst]

Regardless of the outcome, I could almost bet that the likelihood of Blizzard or Blizzard Activision of producing anything groundbreaking and short of remakes is close to zero. At best we'll get an "immersive Overwatch II VR experience" or some variation of it.

I had already partly given up on the company, now I won't buy anymore. Litigation or not, this mess is not worth the trouble. Why would I even play Diablo 2 Remastered when I have Path of Exile, etc

According to wiki, allegations against Cosby were first raised in 2014.
But having a "Cosby-themed room" in "2000something" is now an evidence of something horrible?

It's one of the more muddy points of the suit (and again, the timeline of the Cosby Suite is both maybe not true on my side and/or I can gather it probably continued since the original Cosby Suite thing). So maybe this one instance is just an unlucky, bad look. But it's one of those things where there are now like a plethora of points that were actual abuse if the allegations are true, so if one or two things were misinterpreted in retrospect or whatever, I implore you to understand it's just a few points out of a massive picture. It's very easy for the mind to hook onto one disproven claim and think it outmatches a massive number of proofs supporting a contrary point, it's something callous people do a lot, and it something I often fall victim to myself.

Like, in the case of the Cosby Suite, the leaked pictures and such. https://kotaku.com/inside-blizzard-developers-infamous-bill-cosby-suite-1847378762 This only has photographic evidence from 2013, so maybe I'm misremembering the timeline. It's hard to keep up since the information is exploding, so to say.

Anyways, point. Even if we remove all alleged Cosby abuse from the equation, the article is primarily about the culture surrounding the Cosby Suite, where one named individual (explicitly named in the suit), Afrasiabi was known to grope women a lot (among other things), and was not corrected over it for years (beside some verbal hand-slapping). And he was not unique here. So if they named it the Sinatra Suite instead, it would still be kind of irrelevant to the behavior within the Suite, which was allegedly a hub of sexual harassment frat life.

To put it shortly in this concrete allegation, the name doesn't even really matter at this point, since the alleged behavior, regardless of name, was so abusive.

They explained the Cosby Suite as being named after different ugly carpets and the sweaters on the show or something, but disproving that this had any connection to the abuse does basically nothing in the bigger picture. They have to disprove a lot, including factual data on pay gaps that are not lining up with employment history.