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Interesting. I am not much of a podcast person and at 12 minutes in, only the last 2 minutes held my attention. I stopped at that point to post this. I will resume later. At the point I stopped, it appears to be on a path of blame the US and capitalism for NK's plight. But I will withhold judgement until I've heard more.
Definitely the right move. Sometimes you encounter this annoying thing where you meet someone from a foreign country or with a different heritage than yours’ and they’re like “hey your powerful empire which spreads a lot of media messaging and has infiltrated the minds of billions of people seems to believe some really lopsided things about the status quo and how the empire even came to be in the first place, and these misperceptions harm me and my people by rewriting history.” The correct response is always “but we are the richest place and have the best kind of government and saved your people from Germany, so I will not be listening to you at all.”
 
Incidentally, one fifth of north Korea’s population was lost in the war.
 
I did not know so many here were like the firebombing of tokyo and dresden were awesome. Jesus. So, I guess most commenters on this thread think Russia should just go full monty on Ukraine? and Israel on Gaza? Total War? I get the mentality but not with my tax dollars especially as an imperial project which Korea definitely was...
What?

A fast unconditional surrender, the former, is a precondition for the Russians having no leverage to occupy Japan, the latter.
 
My teachers talked about it with more nuance, a demonstration of the bomb for its own sake.. I mean like many things it’s obviously a lot of things going into it. We discussed how it might not have been necessary for near term but that there’s a debate about that.. but primarily to do what it did which was end the war in such a quick and decisive way that would also cut the Soviets out of future Japan.
not to instaderail the thread but from what i've gathered the purpose of the bombs was the bolded. calendar doesn't line up with the idea that it was preventative for cutting out the sovjets; japan's atrocious government did not care about the bombings (atom or not) or its citizens, but held out hoping to ensure a peace deal that could ensure the continuation of the imperial institution. like, we'll surrender, do whatever to us, let us keep the emperor. iirc they basically gave in when the us gave some minor guarantee about the emperor

i'm only hazy on the last detail, but if i remember correctly: looking over the timeline, the most appropriate guess was the us wanted to ensure unconditional surrender and wanted to drop the bombs due to geopolitics, it's projecting power, and after they dropped the bomb and the sovjets invaded usa finally gave up on the former because stalin expansion is bad. so for ending the war (which was just, imperial japan was awful), the bombs were pointless in effect, and they were aware it wouldn't serve anything to further the war. it was a gambit for post-war geopolitics and a demonstration of power since everyone saw the writing on the wall with the sovjets.

the japanese government did not care about the atomic bomb, and the us government knew it.
 
Here is a quick look at the basic facts of the war.

After failed attempts of negotiations on unification, North Korean army (Korean People's Army or KPA) forces crossed the border and formally launched their offensive against South Korea on 25 June 1950.[39][40] The United Nations Security Council denounced North Korea's actions as an invasion and authorized the formation of the United Nations Command and the dispatch of forces to Korea[41] to repel it.[42][43] The Soviet Union was boycotting the UN for recognizing Taiwan (Republic of China) as China,[44] and the People's Republic of China was not recognized by the UN, so neither could support their ally North Korea at the Security Council meeting. Twenty-one countries of the United Nations eventually contributed to the UN force, with the United States providing around 90% of the military personnel,[45] and represented the first attempt at collective security under the United Nations system.[46]

After the first two months of war, the South Korean army (ROKA) and hastily dispatched American forces were on the point of defeat, retreating to a small area behind a defensive line known as the Pusan Perimeter. In September 1950, a risky amphibious UN counteroffensive was launched at Incheon, cutting off KPA troops and supply lines in South Korea. Those who escaped envelopment and capture were forced back north. UN forces then invaded North Korea in October 1950 and moved rapidly towards the Yalu River—the border with China—but on 19 October 1950, Chinese forces - the People's Volunteer Army (PVA) - crossed the Yalu and entered the war.[39] The UN retreated from North Korea following the PVA's First Phase Offensive and the Second Phase Offensive. China along with their North Korean allies pressed their offensive, invading the South and capturing Seoul by early January of 1951. A UN force recaptured the city from them, and the communist forces were pushed back to positions around the 38th parallel following PVA's abortive Fifth Phase Offensive. After this, the front which was close to where the war had started stabilized, and the last two years were a war of attrition. The war in the air, however, was never a stalemate. North Korea was subject to a massive U.S. bombing campaign. Jet-powered fighters confronted each other in air-to-air combat for the first time in history, and Soviet pilots covertly flew in defense of their communist allies.

The fighting ended on 27 July 1953 when the Korean Armistice Agreement was signed. The agreement created the Korean Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) to separate North and South Korea, and allowed the return of prisoners. However, no peace treaty was ever signed, and the two Koreas are technically still at war, engaged in a frozen conflict.[47][48] In April 2018, the leaders of North and South Korea met at the DMZ[49] and agreed to work toward a treaty to end the Korean War formally.[50]

The Korean War was a major conflict of the Cold War and among the most destructive conflicts of the modern era, with approximately 3 million war fatalities and a larger proportional civilian death toll than World War II or the Vietnam War. It resulted in the destruction of virtually all of Korea's major cities, with thousands of massacres committed by both sides—including the mass killing of tens of thousands of suspected communists by the South Korean government, and the torture and starvation of prisoners of war by the North Koreans. North Korea became among the most heavily bombed countries in history.[51] Over the course of the war 1.5 million North Koreans are estimated to have fled North Korea.[52]
 
They got firebombed for a reason. They weren't exactly innocent on that themselves.

Otherwise see previous comment on invading other countries.

Not sure how a defensive war after an invasion is Imperialist. Bit of a logic gap there.
south korea incurred on north multiple times including summer of 1950... pot.kettle

listen to the podcast, challenge yourself.
 
I mean how they are bouncing around from one topic to the next without really constructing a solid narrative. Maybe they do down the line, but I don’t have all day to find out where it starts.

This isn’t a problem with their history, because after 24 minutes, I still don’t know it. This is a problem of presentation, and I’m not engaged in this one.

And I’m not starting from zero: I’ve read Cumings as part of my college courses. I don’t remember much of it, but I don’t hold him in high regard.
You of all people are not going to like this, the first episode is the free one, so it bounces all over the narrative starts in the second with a description of Korean history from feudal times to the second world war. I'm not sure how you can ignore Cummings, you might not like his politics, but he brings the sources. Frankly I think a lot here jsut do not like what has come out since FOIA records in the US and soviet records have become public.

not to instaderail the thread but from what i've gathered the purpose of the bombs was the bolded. calendar doesn't line up with the idea that it was preventative for cutting out the sovjets; japan's atrocious government did not care about the bombings (atom or not) or its citizens, but held out hoping to ensure a peace deal that could ensure the continuation of the imperial institution. like, we'll surrender, do whatever to us, let us keep the emperor. iirc they basically gave in when the us gave some minor guarantee about the emperor

i'm only hazy on the last detail, but if i remember correctly: looking over the timeline, the most appropriate guess was the us wanted to ensure unconditional surrender and wanted to drop the bombs due to geopolitics, it's projecting power, and after they dropped the bomb and the sovjets invaded usa finally gave up on the former because stalin expansion is bad. so for ending the war (which was just, imperial japan was awful), the bombs were pointless in effect, and they were aware it wouldn't serve anything to further the war. it was a gambit for post-war geopolitics and a demonstration of power since everyone saw the writing on the wall with the sovjets.

the japanese government did not care about the atomic bomb, and the us government knew it.
yea this is pretty accurate, we wanted to keep the soviets out completely and Japan did too... why wouldn't they? we basically put all their business leaders back in control to prop up their imperial possessions against Stalin and Mao.

This guy seems a bit more coherent.

Is this the supposed excuse for waging an insane propaganda campaign against all workers in the US and committing the worst war crimes in human history? It's not a very good excuse. It only makes me more inclined to lop their heads off.
 
This guy seems a bit more coherent.

*massages temples*

so i skimmed through the video in skips of 5 seconds to get a jist of what second thought was talking about. and, two things:

- first off, i want to stress that second thought is perfectly fine as a youtube channel.

- secondly, this thread is about a podcast that deals with the korean war. this video added nothing to that, from what i gathered, if it even mentioned korea; if korea is mentioned, it's as a peripheral reference to the actual point of the video (what most socialists actually want to do). are you able to discuss a topic, or as i asked in another thread, do you post on forums to speak with people or in front of them? if your point of second thought here is ideal argumentative form, you could have shared literally anything - again, another respectable but irrelevant breakdown of a point from a good online presence. but that's also part of the problem - the reason why you even share this video is so bizarrely veiled; why don't you just tell us the point of what you share instead of just listing unrelated things in your posts?
like - when you choose not to share about north korea, it's telling you don't actually have anything to present. so i'll just say, personally, and from people i know here: if you actually want us to listen to your ideas, it's actually much better cease the waffling and present points relevant to the topic at hand. if you want people to listen to you, give us something to listen to!

...

but yea, personally, i'm going to continue lurking the thread irt points on korea; for zard, i have little interest in going further on form here.
 
I just wanted to share (and yes, I will defend most of it even though I think the hosts are a bit more radical than I am) what I thought was pretty compelling context to the story we all generally grew up on in America. Realizing of course two important things. First probably most Americans under 40? do not even know there was a Korean War and second everyone over 40 were part of a red scare commuphobia that drove all reason from their ability to digest the reality of the events that took place there... South Korea did not hold real elections until the 80s and honestly still have not had free and fair elections. Their workers and lives are bloody miserable even if their standard of living is much much better than the North's. Even that was not the case until after the fall of the Soviet Union.
 
This guy seems a bit more coherent.


Everyone has a criticism against capitalism.

We all agree to a free exchange of goods and services.


But soon after there is child labor (chores are good), people trading their 3 hours (or 30!) for another person's 1 hour, and a person at the top skimming a percentage from everyone.

This is basically our civilization now.


I watch while enjoying my Mountain Dew that is banned in Europe and Japan for being unsafe. :crazyeye:
 
I watch while enjoying my Mountain Dew that is banned in Europe and Japan for being unsafe. :crazyeye:
Don't you know? Mountain Dew turns you into an MLG pro gamer
Do you really want this to be your personal flag?
Spoiler :

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I sure do
 
Elden Ring got me addicted to seltzers
 
throw this image on that flag and I'm in...

1697128260038.png
 
and second everyone over 40 were part of a red scare commuphobia that drove all reason from their ability to digest the reality of the events that took place there
"You know nothing, Jon snow."

Your over simplification of history leads you down many dead ends of misunderstanding.
 
"You know nothing, Jon snow."

Your over simplification of history leads you down many dead ends of misunderstanding.
guilty as charged sir, that's why I wanted to see what other opinions are on it. Never stop learning, never stop teaching.

I could also reply that especially in regard to Korea, the American narrative as generally understood is painfully ignorant and over simplified.
 
Well defending North Korea I think says more about your morals than I ever coukd. Pretty much one of the worst regimes on the planet.

Own goal condemned yourself.

Started watching part 1 but there's 10 of them and they're kind of long. It's not really realistic to expect people to watch a 4 or 5 hour youtuber.

If you're talking about lopping off heads but lack the self awareness why communists got suppressed in the cold war.
 
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