BNP leader arrested

[Kafka2]

Nazi?

Yes! Hilarious, isn't it! He was leader of the National Front for years, used C18 security openly, and still people claim he's not a Nazi! Glad we can share a chuckle on that point.

 

[Britannia]

Mine's Tony Lecomber. I've always had a soft spot for nail-bombers.

I cant say that I like him much.

 

[Stapel]

Expect more details to come soon, I'm sure.

The BNP are racist thugs who beat people up based on the colour of their skin. They try to pass themselves off as respectable politicians, but they're still the same old white supremacist skinheads, they just beat people up on weekends now, inbetween spreading lies and propaganda against ethnic minorities. They don't just incite racial hatred, they act on it too, in a very real and physical way.

@Stapel & AVN:
If you've ever spoken to a BNP member (and there's one on this very board ) you'll soon realise they're just skinheads with suits on. They same gangs of racist thugs that beat asians up are canvassing support for their pathetic political party

I pretty much already knew that.

That sad thing is, they're gaining popularity, not inspite of their lies, but because of them.

Is it so pretty damn hard to seperate those who are anxious of the rise of dogmatic religionists, who happen to be over-representeted in crime and those who are just straight lying moronic racists?

There is a reason why these morons gain popularity. Arresting the leader of these bunch of racists won't really stop people who truely are anxious about changes in society, to flock to these BNP-suckers.

If the BNP gains popularity, it is the fault of the current political parties, and their political correct stupidity.

Drifting off topic a bit here...
But, I am still not really persuaded why this man was arrested!

 

[Plotinus]

If this is considered incitement to racial hatred then I consider that the end of free speech in England.

We don't have "free speech" in the UK, and a damned good thing too. The right not to have abuse screamed at you overrides the right to scream abuse at people.

The comments quoted from the speech certainly qualify as incitement to racial hatred. It is true that making hateful comments about Islam is not, in itself, racist - but as Kafka2 points out, you don't have to say something that is explicitly racist to "incite racial hatred". It's enough if you say something with the intention of encouraging racist behaviour, even if what you say is not, strictly speaking, racist.

In any case, the speech clearly was about race rather than simply religion, since Griffin contrasted the supposed "rape gangs" with "white" girls whom they rape. And, in any case again, the BNP *are* racist, since they claim that black people born in Britain have less right to be there than white people born in Britain, since they are the product of "immigration". Quite where they think white Britons originally came from I'm not clear. But since this policy would see my girlfriend "returned" to a continent she has never visited, I'm more than happy to see its apologists silenced.

 

[Kafka2]

I cant say that I like him much.

You're more of an Andy McLorie fan? Personally I find petrol bomb attacks on the homes of policemen to be a bit crude, but each to their own...

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[Stapel]

As I pointed out in the other thread the BNP does not beat up minorities, only when we are attacked do we then proceed to kick the **** of them.

Why are you attacked? And by whom?

 

[Britannia]

Yes! Hilarious, isn't it! He was leader of the National Front for years, used C18 security openly, and still people claim he's not a Nazi! Glad we can share a chuckle on that point

Nick Griffin was the national organiser. I admit the BNP still has links to the NF and others however the BNP is a party for nationalists who have decided to pursue power through the ballot box and that is why I am a member.

Please tell me your defination of a Nazi also to avoid any confusion as it has always been my view that the Nazis were a German political movement in the 20th century.

 

[Stapel]

In any case, the speech clearly was about race rather than simply religion, since Griffin contrasted the supposed "rape gangs" with "white" girls whom they rape. And, in any case again, the BNP *are* racist, since they claim that black people born in Britain have less right to be there than white people born in Britain, since they are the product of "immigration". Quite where they think white Britons originally came from I'm not clear. But since this policy would see my girlfriend "returned" to a continent she has never visited, I'm more than happy to see its apologists silenced.

That makes more sense than the one-liners from the article.

 

[Mise]

The tories and Lib Dems are part of the establishment, they are part of the political elite. However I must be fair, the Lib Dems have spoken out against the Religious hatred act and no matter how much I despise their policies it is nice to see politicians sticking to their principles.

One would expect the Lib Dems to want the BNP to run against Blunkett, since it would syphon votes off the Tories and Labour and allow the Lib Dems to get a larger share of the votes.

Thankfully, politicians stick to their principles, so no matter how good it would be for the Lib Dems, they'd sooner give up a seat than let a bunch of racist thugs win.

As I pointed out in the other thread the BNP does not beat up minorities, only when we are attacked do we then proceed to kick the **** of them.

"The BNP doesn't beat up minorities". That has been your defence for a decade; that the leadership does not instruct its members to beat up minorities. As you can see, the excuse is wearing thin, and that's why Nick Griffin is being arrested for INCITING its members to beat up minorities.

 

[Iggy]

I pretty much already knew that.

Is it so pretty damn hard to seperate those who are anxious of the rise of dogmatic religionists, who happen to be over-representeted in crime and those who are just straight lying moronic racists?

There is a reason why these morons gain popularity. Arresting the leader of these bunch of racists won't really stop people who truely are anxious about changes in society, to flock to these BNP-suckers.

If the BNP gains popularity, it is the fault of the current political parties, and their political correct stupidity.

Drifting off topic a bit here...
But, I am still not really persuaded why this man was arrested!

Good post. I can understand why you an in particular other Dutch posters here are somewhat concerned how this looks. The problem is that the BNP are just using the religious angle as a means to a racist end. As others have said, more details should be forthcoming.

 

[Britannia]

Why are you attacked? And by whom?

The BNP members, and family members I should add, are routinely attacked by left wing groups such as the Anti Nazi League and Muslim/Arab gangs.

You just have to look at the recent Le Pen visit and see the pictures of Red thugs throwing things at the BNP members.

 

[Iggy]

Please tell me your defination of a Nazi also to avoid any confusion as it has always been my view that the Nazis were a German political movement in the 20th century.

I always take it that "Nazi" in modern use is a shortened form of National Socialist.

 

[Kafka2]

Please tell me your defination of a Nazi also to avoid any confusion as it has always been my view that the Nazis were a German political movement in the 20th century.

You're quite right. I should, of course, have called Nick Griffin "pro-Nazi" or "sympathetic to nazis". Such as writing anti-Semitic articles for "The Rune", goose-stepping and "Sieg heil"-ing on NF rallies and joininginternational fascist organisations with Italian terrorists.

 

[Kafka2]

The BNP members, and family members I should add, are routinely attacked by left wing groups such as the Anti Nazi League and Muslim/Arab gangs.

You just have to look at the recent Le Pen visit and see the pictures of Red thugs throwing things at the BNP members.

What goes around, comes around. I take it you saw the programme that caused these arrests? Mark Collett's promotion of "Redwatch" to target anti-nazi activists?

 

[carlosMM]

This is ridiculous, Nick will no doubt be cleared of all charges. This is politically motivated as Nick Griffin was planning on contesting Blunkett's seat at the next election. This is just another example of how the establishment are running scared and are introducing increasingly draconian legislation to try to suppress us.

I could pick any of your posts, they are all the same, and I have read that kinda lingo often enough.

Usually in German, though, and from a different time period. It pretty much died down after '45 though.


And yes, I *am* calling you a Nazi apologetic! You try to sugarcoat the fact that the BNP is an extremist right-wing hate party. You try to blow smoke at us, thinking us dumb enough not to see behind the suits and smiles that the BNP is nothing but an evil to be stamped out vicioulsy for the good of mankind.


And you yourself should be glad you do not live in Germany, the only country I know who really is able to defends a democratic and free constitution against racial hatred (most others lack the necessary laws; thanx to the Allies for giving us these laws ) - you'd be in jail with one foot. We jail scum like the BNP, gladly, and those who support them!

 

[AVN]

We don't have "free speech" in the UK, and a damned good thing too. The right not to have abuse screamed at you overrides the right to scream abuse at people.

The comments quoted from the speech certainly qualify as incitement to racial hatred. It is true that making hateful comments about Islam is not, in itself, racist - but as Kafka2 points out, you don't have to say something that is explicitly racist to "incite racial hatred". It's enough if you say something with the intention of encouraging racist behaviour, even if what you say is not, strictly speaking, racist.

In any case, the speech clearly was about race rather than simply religion, since Griffin contrasted the supposed "rape gangs" with "white" girls whom they rape. And, in any case again, the BNP *are* racist, since they claim that black people born in Britain have less right to be there than white people born in Britain, since they are the product of "immigration". Quite where they think white Britons originally came from I'm not clear. But since this policy would see my girlfriend "returned" to a continent she has never visited, I'm more than happy to see its apologists silenced.

Thanks for your explanation. This makes more sense for me.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

What are the charges ?

Man - what a confusion here. Can you clear it up ?

Allow me to explain.
The BNP are indeed racist, but that's not the real reason for the arrests. The fact is that there will be an election in this country next year and they've been getting an embarrasing number of votes in the last few years, so they're being put out of the way. An increased vote for the BNP would cause all sorts of trouble, so our government obviously feels a litle "social prophylaxis" is needed.

In case anyone here needs it spelling out for them, I'm more woried about the erosion of free speech these arrests imply than I am about the BNP, who are a bunch of fools.

 

[Britannia]

One would expect the Lib Dems to want the BNP to run against Blunkett, since it would syphon votes off the Tories and Labour and allow the Lib Dems to get a larger share of the votes.

The Lib Dems and all the political parties fear us, the fear that once we start fair media coverage people will see through the lies that are spread about about us. The "old gang" know that if we get a foothold we can not be stopped.

Thankfully, politicians stick to their principles, so no matter how good it would be for the Lib Dems, they'd sooner give up a seat than let a bunch of racist thugs win.

You keep saying "racist thugs" yet a large number of women and elderly people voted for the BNP at the last elections. Dismissing us as racist thugs will get you no where as the BNP members are the most active activists in the country and when people talk to us they do not see the racist thugs you talk about.

"The BNP doesn't beat up minorities". That has been your defence for a decade; that the leadership does not instruct its members to beat up minorities. As you can see, the excuse is wearing thin, and that's why Nick Griffin is being arrested for INCITING its members to beat up minorities.

I would bet my house on the fact that Nick Griffin will be found not guilty, as we are not inciting our members to attack ethnic minorities, just look at the last paragraph of the BNP press release:

We conclude by making an appeal for calm, all supporters are asked to remember that this is a deliberate attempt to disrupt the operation of the only political party in the UK that is a genuine opposition to the Blairite regime. We are all very very angry about these actions to silence our spokesmen and to disrupt our day to day activities but our organisation will grow in strength and capability if we show restraint and a typically British stiff upper lip.

There is no evidence of the BNP inciting racial hatred because we dont, I dont go around beating up people because they are black and the that will be proven when Nick Griffin is released without charge.

 

[Kafka2]

There is no evidence of the BNP inciting racial hatred because we dont, I dont go around beating up people because they are black and the that will be proven when Nick Griffin is released without charge.

....like he wasn't last time he got convicted for it.

 

[Plotinus]

One would expect the Lib Dems to want the BNP to run against Blunkett, since it would syphon votes off the Tories and Labour and allow the Lib Dems to get a larger share of the votes.

A very good point - from a purely political point of view you'd expect Labour and the Lib Dems to benefit from the BNP in the same way that the Republicans benefit from Ralph Nader. And in fact they do appear to be benefiting now from the UK Independence Party, who like the BNP appeal to right-wingers but aren't as extreme (they're loony isolationists, granted, but not actually racist).

Personally I'd see the BNP, the UKIP, and the more right-wing Tories as all part of a similar basic intolerance and fear of immigration which has permeated the English national character since the year dot (coincidentally, the question I'm currently asking in the history quiz in the history section concerns one of the more notorious outbursts of this intolerance three hundred years ago). Coming from a country that consists entirely of immigrants and which has had continual immigration for many centuries, that attitude is as silly as it is lamentable. Especially as we *need* immigration more than ever these days, with our declining birth rate: who's going to pay all our pensions in a few decades' time, if not new workers from overseas?

But that is probably a debate for another time. In the meantime, let's see if they can arrest Richard Littlejohn for anything... that would make the day complete!