Case
The horror, the horror
I'll take France 
Bonaparte II PBEM
- Thread starter Winterfritz
- Start date
Patient English
Designer
I have been thinking about this overnight. I think I would like the 5 player-nations to be:
France (Case)
England
Spain
Austria
Prussia (Voltar)
This is because they are close physically, and won't have too long a march to get into the action (like Russia would!) and because I want to playtest France and Spain co-operating to attack England, both in Portugal and on the Home Island. Austria AND Prussia so they can offer mutual support against the French juggernaut, if they are so minded. A Hannover/Berlin/Vienna axis should make Napoleon think twice.
I know Henrik doesn't want the Austrians again, so if he would rather have England, I will take Spain. This leaves Austria for WinterFritz. Would that be OK with you, WF?
I was thinking of a house rule whereby France and Spain HAVE to stay allied for a certain time (perhaps as long as 1808) but I'm having second thoughts. Anyway, I think Case would rather have the Spanish Navy on his side than a whole bunch of partisans annoying him!
Maybe we'll leave it totally freeform.
Smaug, I would rather keep this playtest to 5, for speed purposes. However, if any of the others drops out, maybe you would be happy to step in for them?
Voltar, we'll need your email. If you don't want to post it, PM me, and I'll circulate it. Maybe your real first name as well? I always feel strange talking to aliases in negotiations...
John
France (Case)
England
Spain
Austria
Prussia (Voltar)
This is because they are close physically, and won't have too long a march to get into the action (like Russia would!) and because I want to playtest France and Spain co-operating to attack England, both in Portugal and on the Home Island. Austria AND Prussia so they can offer mutual support against the French juggernaut, if they are so minded. A Hannover/Berlin/Vienna axis should make Napoleon think twice.
I know Henrik doesn't want the Austrians again, so if he would rather have England, I will take Spain. This leaves Austria for WinterFritz. Would that be OK with you, WF?
I was thinking of a house rule whereby France and Spain HAVE to stay allied for a certain time (perhaps as long as 1808) but I'm having second thoughts. Anyway, I think Case would rather have the Spanish Navy on his side than a whole bunch of partisans annoying him!
Maybe we'll leave it totally freeform.Smaug, I would rather keep this playtest to 5, for speed purposes. However, if any of the others drops out, maybe you would be happy to step in for them?
Voltar, we'll need your email. If you don't want to post it, PM me, and I'll circulate it. Maybe your real first name as well? I always feel strange talking to aliases in negotiations...
John
Winterfritz
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2001
- Messages
- 108
Sounds good Patient
Would you still not mind taking Austria Voltar? If you'd much prefer the Prussians, I can live with that. But I had Prussia in mind for this round, and I'd really really like to play them rather than the Austrians
Would you still not mind taking Austria Voltar? If you'd much prefer the Prussians, I can live with that. But I had Prussia in mind for this round, and I'd really really like to play them rather than the Austrians
Case
The horror, the horror
I don't know how this fits in with John's desire for a fast paced game, but I think that the 'capital' rule needs reform. IMO one turn is too short as it encourages reckless dashes like the one I carried out in the last game.
While I don't know anything about Fritz's deployments, I suspect that I would have had a very tough time holding Paris for more then a couple of turns, and this defeat would have cost me my army...
BTW, the selection of civs for the next game sounds good.
While I don't know anything about Fritz's deployments, I suspect that I would have had a very tough time holding Paris for more then a couple of turns, and this defeat would have cost me my army...
BTW, the selection of civs for the next game sounds good.
Patient English
Designer
Well, Case, Capitals seemed to be crucial in war strategy and at the Peace conference table. However, how about this..?
If a belligerent takes an enemy capital, and holds it for one full turn (3 months) he gains 50 VPs. The capital owner MUST make peace with the victor for at least 12 turns (3 years). More possible by negotiation. For the same period, he must ally with the victor (if the victor demands it) thus laying his country open for transit by the victor's forces, and making his cities available as replenishment depots for the victor's damaged troops.
For this, he gets his capital back. Any other peace terms are by negotiation between the parties. (Reparations, yearly tribute, city exchanges, treaties with other parties etc.)
Exceptions to this are Paris and London, each of which are worth 100 VPs. I will change the 50/100 VP values if they would be too decisive in themselves, but I think they will be about right. A huge factor, but not in themselves worth a full win.
I will post starting VPs for each nation (the figures in brackets after city names are for multiple-VP cities.) If a nation increases it's starting total by 50% it has a marginal victory. The first to 100% wins the game and freezes the scoring. You will notice smaller nations start with fewer VPs, and thus have a good chance.
All players will have to post their current VP status each turn, along with the savegame, so there are no sudden declarations of victory surprising us all! Plenty of encouragement for Machiavellian diplomacy, too.
Opinions?
If Voltar is unhappy with the Austria-Prussia swap, I will adjudicate, but it would be nice if you could work it out between yourselves....
John
If a belligerent takes an enemy capital, and holds it for one full turn (3 months) he gains 50 VPs. The capital owner MUST make peace with the victor for at least 12 turns (3 years). More possible by negotiation. For the same period, he must ally with the victor (if the victor demands it) thus laying his country open for transit by the victor's forces, and making his cities available as replenishment depots for the victor's damaged troops.
For this, he gets his capital back. Any other peace terms are by negotiation between the parties. (Reparations, yearly tribute, city exchanges, treaties with other parties etc.)
Exceptions to this are Paris and London, each of which are worth 100 VPs. I will change the 50/100 VP values if they would be too decisive in themselves, but I think they will be about right. A huge factor, but not in themselves worth a full win.
I will post starting VPs for each nation (the figures in brackets after city names are for multiple-VP cities.) If a nation increases it's starting total by 50% it has a marginal victory. The first to 100% wins the game and freezes the scoring. You will notice smaller nations start with fewer VPs, and thus have a good chance.
All players will have to post their current VP status each turn, along with the savegame, so there are no sudden declarations of victory surprising us all! Plenty of encouragement for Machiavellian diplomacy, too.
Opinions?
If Voltar is unhappy with the Austria-Prussia swap, I will adjudicate, but it would be nice if you could work it out between yourselves....
John
voltar
Drunken Russian
Sure no problem, I'll take Austria.
Patient English don't forget to send me the game files at my e-mail adress.
Patient English don't forget to send me the game files at my e-mail adress.
Henrik
Emperor
I want Brittain!
I love naval battles (as Im sure you remember from colonies john 
)
I love naval battles (as Im sure you remember from colonies john
)
Henrik
Emperor
This sounds good to me, although the 50 and 100 VP values seems a bit big.
In addititon I would like to propose another thing which I thought up during our pbem (this wont speed up the game though) :
What about giving the civ who takes an AI capital controll over that AIs civ?
For instance, if someone took Stockholm, they'd get to controll the swedes.
Patient English
Designer
1) Henrik, you have the English. Case and I are out for your blood!
2) Voltar, please PM me your email address (or send it to the address quoted below) and I will send you the game files. However, these are for familiarization only, as I am carrying out a few tweaks and will email you all version 2.1 files next weekend, assuming they are ready.
3) The 100/50 VPs may me a bit much. I will collate all the starting Civ VPs and we shall see. I will post them here.
4) Taking an AI capital = taking over that AI: an interesting idea, which we might well play sometime. Not this time though, as it could be unbalancing and I want to playtest a simpler game.
5) Revised playlist:
France (Case)
England (Henrik)
Spain (John) [netdesign@zoom.co.uk]
Austria (Voltar)
Prussia (WinterFritz)
I'll get back to you with exact victory conditions in a day or two. Remember, although this should be great fun, it is a playtest first. I want a game that is winnable, but not too quickly, but that doesn't need to go on past around 1808 or so.
I will start a new thread in this forum on Sunday (all being well) and we shall start. Please play your turns promptly, and if you are going away for more trhan a couple of days, please give us plenty of warning, and the option to nominate a deputy.
John
2) Voltar, please PM me your email address (or send it to the address quoted below) and I will send you the game files. However, these are for familiarization only, as I am carrying out a few tweaks and will email you all version 2.1 files next weekend, assuming they are ready.
3) The 100/50 VPs may me a bit much. I will collate all the starting Civ VPs and we shall see. I will post them here.
4) Taking an AI capital = taking over that AI: an interesting idea, which we might well play sometime. Not this time though, as it could be unbalancing and I want to playtest a simpler game.
5) Revised playlist:
France (Case)
England (Henrik)
Spain (John) [netdesign@zoom.co.uk]
Austria (Voltar)
Prussia (WinterFritz)
I'll get back to you with exact victory conditions in a day or two. Remember, although this should be great fun, it is a playtest first. I want a game that is winnable, but not too quickly, but that doesn't need to go on past around 1808 or so.
I will start a new thread in this forum on Sunday (all being well) and we shall start. Please play your turns promptly, and if you are going away for more trhan a couple of days, please give us plenty of warning, and the option to nominate a deputy.
John
Winterfritz
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2001
- Messages
- 108
Thanks a lot Voltar
I just don't think I could stand to play the Austrians, after bashing them so badly last time
Patient English
Designer
These are the starting VPs for the players:
British: 75
French: 71
Austrians: 48
Prussians: 41
Spanish: 35
To speed up the game, and create a bit of tactical concentration, I suggest the following bonuses for occupying an enemy capital:
British: 40
French: 35
Austrians: 20
Prussians: 20
Spanish: 15
...but I am open to feedback. If you take a human-player capital, you add the bonus to your regular score as a one-off, but permanent, hit. You have to release that capital in the peace treaty that MUST follow, and can never get the bonus again for THAT city.
Of course, the innate VPs for each city (Paris has 15, London 10, for example) still count for whoever holds them.
If a player ends the game with 150%+ of his starting VPs, he can count a marginal victory. 100-149%, a draw, less than 100%, a loss. The first player to 200% ends the game, and is the outright victor.
Sneak attacks are allowed, and you only need to be as honest and reliable in your negotiations as you want to be. Of course, word might spread amongst the others if you are treacherous, but it all stays within this game. It has no effect on your rep outside this one scenario test, at least as far as I am concerned....
In other words, diplomatic double-dealing is allowed. Outright cheating (and there are many ways, most of which we will pick up on straight away) is a complete no-no.
OK?
Don't anyone start a new game thread yet, I will do so when the new files have been sent out. The Brits move first I think (Henrik), followed by the Prussians (WF), the Independents, the Austrians (Voltar), the Russians, the French (Case), the Spanish (me) and finally the Swedes.
British: 75
French: 71
Austrians: 48
Prussians: 41
Spanish: 35
To speed up the game, and create a bit of tactical concentration, I suggest the following bonuses for occupying an enemy capital:
British: 40
French: 35
Austrians: 20
Prussians: 20
Spanish: 15
...but I am open to feedback. If you take a human-player capital, you add the bonus to your regular score as a one-off, but permanent, hit. You have to release that capital in the peace treaty that MUST follow, and can never get the bonus again for THAT city.
Of course, the innate VPs for each city (Paris has 15, London 10, for example) still count for whoever holds them.
If a player ends the game with 150%+ of his starting VPs, he can count a marginal victory. 100-149%, a draw, less than 100%, a loss. The first player to 200% ends the game, and is the outright victor.
Sneak attacks are allowed, and you only need to be as honest and reliable in your negotiations as you want to be. Of course, word might spread amongst the others if you are treacherous, but it all stays within this game. It has no effect on your rep outside this one scenario test, at least as far as I am concerned....
In other words, diplomatic double-dealing is allowed. Outright cheating (and there are many ways, most of which we will pick up on straight away) is a complete no-no.
OK?
Don't anyone start a new game thread yet, I will do so when the new files have been sent out. The Brits move first I think (Henrik), followed by the Prussians (WF), the Independents, the Austrians (Voltar), the Russians, the French (Case), the Spanish (me) and finally the Swedes.
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