Boogaboo's C3C tales: tiny/small on Deity/Sid

[boogaboo]

Gramphos may have a tool, but I believe Aeson has a larger tool...
I understood the save times and load times are also recorded, and some additional info, and I hope noone will try to overpass these rules.

C3C does tend to crash, but I think it should be clear to attach a screenshot of the crash and a autosave of the start of turn that was therefor loaded.
I take screenshots when C3C crashes.

Mostly or almost always it crashes after abandoning a captured city..
press F1 to crash... I hope the next version fixes this, since it has become intolerable at times.

In tiny games.. not many crashes should occur, and the whole game usually lasts under 2 hours, even at Sid, so I don't really stop until the fat lady tells me to.

 

[vmxa]

I never had it crash after abandonment of a city, but I had run into two lockups. One I have not seen in a long time, where I am dragging the movement cursor around the map.

The one I had twice this week is totally random. I just seem to see it mostly when I am trying to scroll down the F3 list.

Anyway it would seem there is a flag or a counter to log loading of the game. so any one that knows the offset can check it and off course manipulate it. A decent hex editor should work.

I had another lockup when I right click a stack of armies that was in a city. The stack had around 41 armies and would not show the scroll arrows. Dealing with large stacks in a city it a nightmare. They need to fix it and make the zoom to city and fortify commands be on the top. It is a real pain to scroll endlessly to get to those functions.

 

[boogaboo]

Sumbitted!!!

Score: 28115
Date: 1425 BC
Condition: Conquest Victory
Civilization: Aztec
Version: C3C 1.22f
Submitted: 2004-9-23
File: boogaboo_Sid_28115_C3C122.zip

Now I must try Babylonians and if successful even Mayans for conquest.
Domination is futile for many reasons, even with religious civs. It is sid.
Since I used mostly JAGs and archers, I won't seek Iron based civs anymore.

It was a great game, although I upgraded only one JAG to sowrdsman, and the sowrdsman barely made it to the front.
I will write more tomorrow, since I'm VERY tired.

 

[boogaboo]

Well, here's the game aftermath log (Aztec vs. French and Arabs) and a screenshot from 3400BC :
[about 10 saves and 2 windows exception screenshots are in the zip]

4000BC -
My favorie tiles - river (curiosity of MapFinder), 2 cattle and a forest to chop for completion of barracks at 3750BC, when the sity size is 2 and growth is 5.
Unfortunately, I hadn't a bonus grassland at radius 1 to top the cake, so the first JAG came in 3500BC.

3400BC (screenshot) [First attack on Arabs] -
I managed to raze Damascus with my first JAG attack, and enter a GA!
Great game indeed! decided to save this situation early.

Diplomacy was also excellent up to now, and I managed to trade pottery for a worker + gold, and then still managed to get B.Working and C.Burial for my Warrior Code (they'd get it soon anyway, so I trade).

Military-wise, I didn't know at the time, but Mecca was far, which was really a key to victory, since I was now under attack and unprotected, but the enemy stack could not reach me in the few turns they have until they want peace.

About 3000BC (+- 1 turn) [slaves -> archers] -
I managed to scare the slaves near Mecca just before peace.
The Arabs gave me 4 (!!!!) slaves and many techs for the peace pipe I claimed to offer.
Thus, Techno grew to size 9, and reached 20 shields per turn, which equals an archer!!
It was time to tell the French I can bite.

2710BC - [First attack on French]
After a few turns of "war" (perhaps I killed a settler or 2..) I gained power and razed Paris, which was near my own capial, Techno.
A turn later (2670BC), peace gave me Tours.
The Arabs now had 4 cities turn before fifth, and the French only 3 (with Orleans as a new capital, and Marsielles hidden from me at the time).
However, the French were now close, weak, and blocking the Arab expansion.
Therefor, The French will be destroyed before I attend to the Arabs!
A new war with the French soon began to let them start move their stack to a remote location - a near virtual attack on Tours (the far away city they gave me ).

2430BC-2030BC [The French wars] -
2430BC, A turn after the GA has ended, Lyons was razed.
Marsielles was handed to me for peace 2 turns later (2350BC).
This does not mean I let them keep their capital Orleans, which was razed 2 turns after peace (2270BC), making Rheims the new (poor) capital the only city the french have.
I also remember murdering a settler that poped his head out.
The French stack is still moving to Tours (usually, when at war).

Militarily, aside from my stack of mostly archers, at this point, I had poor production (13 max), and could generate an archer only every 2 turns.
Meanwhile, a small part of the French stack finally reached Tours, where a spearman generated a great leader before I had to abandon Tours at 2150BC (and leave the French stack at nowhere, without their precious city).
The next target for the French stack is now Marsielles, but they won't reach it by 2030BC, when Rheims, their only city, is captured, causing the elimination of the French.
French stack disappears.
Arabs are the only target with 5 cities.

1870BC to the end [The Arab wars] -
I organized 2 stacks, and started the war by taking a slave(/s?) and moving my stacks to attack distance (1) from Baghdad and Kufah at 1870BC.
Their whole stack was 2 tiles from Baghdad, but not 1 tile like me .
At 1830BC, both cities were razed, making the Arabs have 3 cities.
At 1790BC, a fourth city, Basra, was founded for the Arabs.
At 1750BC, Rheims had to be disbanded making Marsielles the next target for the Arab stack.

Note that the Arabs are now pushed by me.. to the sea.
Militarily, I was at last producing sowrdsman, at a slow rate, waiting for the mining to take me to a swordsman per 2 turns rate only in 1675BC..
I had only one JAG to upgrade, but at least the Archers worked hard all game long!

At 1725BC, Najran was given to me for peace, so I razeded Basra anyway to have a lead if I ever need more peace

Najran was disbanded in 1575BC and Marsielles in 1550BC, while MY stack razed Mecca in 1525BC, creating another useless military leader!
Medina is now the only city, size 1, and is the capital of the AI.
The AI stack organizes and foolishly moves to attack my only city, Techno, which is far far away, instead of defending his only city.
In any case, at 1450BC, a few swordsmen already razed Medina, ending the game.

 

[boogaboo]

Personal notes -
I've dodged both AI stacks (except some occasional units, and a few French warriors on Tours), had much luck 90% of the time, and had a very good game after all.
I doubt if I can pass this game myself, although having sowrdsman earlier would have been nicer, and could even do a few more games (if I have all the other settings work...)
Attached is the 1450BC final save for viewig the replay.
I finished the game 1 hour before sunrise, a typical record high..

Also, anekdots (spelling?) -
1. Did you know that you can switch science to 0% before founding the first city? Just click where 0% should be (and is hidden).
2. At sid, when I let a stack collapse on my capital, I turn "animate battles" off for one turn, then turn it on again.
3. My dog took me out right after the game to his favorite garden. So?

Thought I had more, but I'll play a bit Babylonians, although MapFinder sometimes stop unexpectedly, so I have only a few maps..
Perhaps some Airxonix today? WarCraft3?

 

[boogaboo]

Well, it seems that the Babyloniabns are no good at early wars in Sid - they have to get Warrior code, which is virtually imopssible without war, and even then, they are week, and out of sync with the AI development.

I've reviewed the whole civs page, and decided that I'm only left with the Persians as a nice choice - they WILL get Iron working by lots of veteran warriors attacking some new city, then upgrade some to immortals.
It's better then trying the Romans, who have to get 2 techs for their UU, only to get the Barracks faster instead of industrious wrorkers.
I go for industrious workers to build my roads, and for a better attacking UU - Persians

So, Persians for last try of MafFinder tonight, so if someone passes me, I'll know it'll probably be an Aztec player...
Then, good or not, I'm off to small/C3C diety... did someone pass me on anything? I'm waiting for my man..

 

[boogaboo]

Persians are no good as well.
Building a barracks and starting a stupid war gets me at 2300BC at best with Iron connected if I'm lucky.
One thing it doesn't do... I still have two enormous giants at my sides.
So what if I can produce Immortals?
I'll be lucky to have the money to upgrade 2 warriors, and now I got to avoid the 2 stacks + about 16 cities with my few immortals closing to 2000BC???
No way.
The only nation that can do ANY harm before 3000BC is certainly the Aztec.
I got my eyes peeled to the Zulus, though, but not in Sid - only where there are goodies.

------------ C3C1.22 / SMALL / DEITY

Now, this I must try both as Aztec and as Zulu.
I'm certainly going for a second city from a goodie hut.
There are still settlers from huts on Deity, right?

Let's look vs who - the required traits are :
1. Commercial - no harm done.
2. Religious - they will build temples and culture instead of military? very well, so I'll raze them instead of taking their main cities..
3. Industrious - they'll never get the shields bonus, and their workers will build the roads I'll later use faster!
The downside is that they will have good infrastructure for their cities, and may go into an early GA.
4. Expansionist - I hope they won't score at the beggining.
5. Seafaring - It's almost unbearable, but let's keep it as an option.
Ships with settlers at the start.. mad! , but it's no real advantage usually.
6. Agr - let someone expand - not an option, but better than sci and mil..

So -
1. Indians (com + rel)
2. French (com + ind)
3. Arabs (rel + exp)

I could use Americans (ind + exp) instead of Arabs, but I don't think so.
Egypt and Hitties both fit but have a early UU+GA anyways.

So, Aztec vs. {India, France, Arabia} it is.

 

[SirPleb]

There are still settlers from huts on Deity, right?

I don't know. I am sure there are not settlers at Sid. It sounds like you'll be finding out soon about whether there are or not at Deity, please let us know when you find out!

 

[boogaboo]

I don't know. I am sure there are not settlers at Sid. It sounds like you'll be finding out soon about whether there are or not at Deity, please let us know when you find out!

Honor for me to have you post on my thread!
I remember that Sid is NOT with settlers, but Deity should be with I think.
I will find out tomorrow if mapfinder actually runs long enough after I come from work.

I am getting very near my (partial) goal to have a #1 score at all tiny and small!

 

[Offa]

boogaboo: that Sid win is fantastic. How many unsuccessful attempts did you have? And now you know you can do it, what sort of % success can you achieve with this kind of play?

I am very intrigued about how to use this style in a regular game, without just losing immediately, which I fear is is the likely outcome.

Anyway

 

[boogaboo]

boogaboo: that Sid win is fantastic. How many unsuccessful attempts did you have? And now you know you can do it, what sort of % success can you achieve with this kind of play?

I am very intrigued about how to use this style in a regular game, without just losing immediately, which I fear is is the likely outcome.

Anyway

First, I admit, it was a FANTASTIC game.

Let it be ovious that I was not always having such luck.
In fact, most of my games end when a stack attacks my only city, and I wasn't ready enough.
As I said, the position of Damascus was VERY crucial, and so did my success attack on it.
I had luck with diplomacy and gained total of 5 slaves near 3000BC. Paris also needed a bit luck to be razed.
After that, it was all stacks of archers, assesing what is needed, and putting something extra if I can.
Exploring the map to know where the AI stacks hang is also an important point.

--------------- Base date for Deity/small : 230BC

I've done a nice (but certainly not good in HoF) game, and now have some standard on the end date I'm looking for.
I did a 230BC conquest, 16444 score I think, and will strive to improve it!

 

[boogaboo]

It seems that unless I'm expansionist, then there is no settler in deity also.
So, I'll do my best with the Aztec then roam the Zulus!

 

[vmxa]

Yes you can get settlers at Deity, but not Sid. It is suppose to have a higher percent at deity than at demi. (20.0 vs 14.3)

I

 

[boogaboo]

Yes you can get settlers at Deity, but not Sid. It is suppose to have a higher percent at deity than at demi. (20.0 vs 14.3)

I

Yeah, I've noticed it is irregular.
Thgis is all true if his base values are the stupid system they use, which it probably is. exploit..? sure, the AI is an exploit, the game is an exploit.

I have 100 Aztec small maps with
1. river (3 food),
2. cow (3/4 food with irrigation),
3. domination less or equal 520.

2 are lost (1 quickly, the other I could conquest by about 400BC, but stopped at 750BC, since it will not be a true recxord in any way.
98maps to go, then I'll see what the Zulus have to offer -
1. Better defence UU for 5 more shields.
2. expansionistic trait, which gives me 20% on settlers, but removes the 3 food on my capital tile (and other agr bonuses).

100 maps took about 18 hours.
WC3 ladder wasn't reset, so I'll play more civ.

 

[boogaboo]

Well, I had a very good game.
Perhaps not great, but a few turns here and there, with enough parameters on my side.
730BC is the date, and I've used many archers, then swordsmen, and reached the 2 last cities with 2 (!) sowrdsmen armies.
The downside was a failed first attack on the Arabs (2 vet JAGs failed to kill a reg warrior, 1 JAG survived..) and 2-3 disorders I had.
Also, closer Iron would have made a few archers into swordsman.

I'm not submitting this.
I'll try more games for a bit better setting, although the tactic and implementation were good.
In the next Aztec maps, I'll take more chances at the most important stage, the start, to gain good "first peace" treaties.
Then, off to Zulu.

Remember that Deity and Sid in small are the hardest conquests of them all (except milking) - Fighting 3 AIs in NOT such a tiny territory - small.

 

[boogaboo]

975BC !!!

This time it was almost perfect, and I DID mass upgrade (7 I think), but had NO MGL. Went one by one, and they WERE surprised, but not weak.
80 maps to go, just for fun and conquest!!.

 

[boogaboo]

OK.
Learned a few things.
Strategy - surprise attack a city per AI with JAGs, then peace for cities AND must have Iron, then kill them one by one with sword.
I believe that it can be done by 1300BC-1400BC, since I already did a few games that ended before 800BC, and all had flaws.

------------- AI exploit/stupidity ----------------

An interesting discovery (in bold) I noticed in the following situation, but is always true, this is just the BEST example of use -

Even if the AI is heavily busy on protecting the city you have the SOD near to (1 tile), if he is in a stage to accept peace, do it.
The turn after peace, AI will put his workers to work, but no change to the city's defence (that is if you pull your forces when he demands).
So... declare war again (the SOD is still threatening the city).
Surprisingly, the orders for the AI in the first turn of war is to proceed to the nearest city I own, which means almost all forces pull out of the AI city!
This enables a simple attack to finish off even a major city.

I have started using this fact repeatedly, and I'm almost "reading" the AI thoughts... 010001010101110101010001

 

[boogaboo]

Well, a very strange game it was, but I've bettered myself 3 turns early.. 1050BC.
Still, I had gone one by one, and did not early attack so good.
Iron also wasn't near.

I can't do this anymore!!
Must run mapfinder again, this time no fooling around with the Aztec,
I'm going Zulu.

Reasons for Zulu are clear.. goody huts on C3C deity
Other than that, they also have an early UU that requires Bronze Working...
perhaps my scout will find it.
I'll have 2 immidiate cities, but not agri, only militaristic, so this equals 2 barracks.

If I fail to reach my 1300BC and earlier goal, I'll go back Aztec.
Still got 4 maps to look today, but I won't count on it.

 

[boogaboo]

Well, a few things -

1. Zulus can be good , but that requires a LOT of games and a luck factor of at least 10-20 bigger than what I'm trying as Aztec, so... unless someone tries a few years and succeeds to pass me, I'm (already) going Aztec again.

2. I just passed myself by 4 turns, so I have a 1150BC win, but still I want better - it wasn't such a great game afterall.

3. A game before, when I had a better game, it ofcourse flipped on me because of the "last settler bug", so I decided to actually submit this bug (save and screenshots) into the C3C bugs forum.
This is my most hated bug by far, more irritating than crashes, since there is no point to even continue the game
This is the thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=107580


I go eat , then play my maps!

 

[punkbass2000]

Have you considered playing against Sumeria? I know they're good, but because they have a defense only warrior replacement they get fewer of these starting units, since they have no units available at the beginning of the game with the 'AI Offense' flag.