Or are you trying to incite someone to replay?
I'd be glad to see some experts like you to post a better date without Sushi since it's good to make a comparison between 2 strategy.
BOTM 31 Final Spoiler
- Thread starter DynamicSpirit
- Start date
I'd be glad to see some experts like you to post a better date without Sushi since it's good to make a comparison between 2 strategy.
Mitchum
Deity
I decided to play the cultural challenge in this game.
In my last cultural game, I founded 2 religions and never had a foreign one spread to me. I was not going to let that happen in this game. So, I took a strange tech path (at least for me) to found as many of the early religions as I could. My tech path was Mysticism -> Polytheism (Hinduism founded in Legendary 1) -> Agriculture -> Masonry -> Monotheism (Judaism founded in Legendary 3) -> Wheel -> Pottery -> Priesthood -> Writing -> CoL (from Oracle Confucianism founded in Legendary 3). As you can see, I was very late to Bronze Working and AH, but I had 3 of the 4 early religions under my belt.
Since my first tech was not a worker tech, my build order was Warrior (grow to 2 on same turn) -> Worker -> Warrior -> Warrior -> Settler.
Legendary 1 was settled in place. Since I had not learned Agriculture by the time my worker was finished, I mined the marble for a nice 5H tile. Legendary 2 was settled east to capture the Corn and Pigs. Legendary 3 was settled west to capture the pigs and all of the flood plains.
At 1000 BC, I had my 3 legendary cities, 3 workers, 3 religions, Stonehenge, Great Wall and the Oracle. All wonders were in Legendary 1. Even though I knew that I would have a lot of great person gene pool issues here, these wonders would contribute a lot of culture, especially when they hit the 1000-year-old mark prior to 1 AD.
In continued on my wonder spree. All wonders that generate great artist points were put in Legendary 2. The others were put into Legendary 1. By 500 AD, Ive added the Great Library, MoM and the Parthenon (in 2 turns). Im a bit slow at expanding as I only have 7 cities +1 settler by this time. Cathy has 2 cities on her island and has already been blocked from settling my direction unless she wants to settle on the ice to the north. Most of my time is spent building temples (14 so far) and spreading my 4 religions to all of my cities. I forgot to mention that I used an early GPro to bulb Theology, making me the first Christian on the planet in 575 BC who is this Jesus guy anyway?
Im so focused on my empire that I dont find the stone to the east for a long time. Since Ill be building Jewish and Christian cathedrals, I decide to settle a totally useless city on the stone for the bonus hammers. My GP Farm is rather weak up in the north capturing the crabs, fish and dear. There were better GP Farm locations, but at the time I settled mine, north was the safest place to go.
As I was building the last of my 9 temples per religion and queuing up cathedrals in my legendary cities, I realized that I was 1 city short!! I didnt want my GP farm to have to build temples and Stone had no way to produce 5 temples in a short amount of time. So, I settled my 6th auxiliary city in 1110 AD, which was way too late. At the end of the game, I had 11 cities (3 legendary, 6 auxiliary, GP Farm and Stone).
Each of my legendary cities had 5 cathedrals. I built the Hermitage in Legendary 2. I got a total of 15 great people:
Final results: Cultural victory in 1605 AD (T231). Base score 2004. Final score 41,528
I made several mistakes in this game, but Im only going to mention the main three:
In my last cultural game, I founded 2 religions and never had a foreign one spread to me. I was not going to let that happen in this game. So, I took a strange tech path (at least for me) to found as many of the early religions as I could. My tech path was Mysticism -> Polytheism (Hinduism founded in Legendary 1) -> Agriculture -> Masonry -> Monotheism (Judaism founded in Legendary 3) -> Wheel -> Pottery -> Priesthood -> Writing -> CoL (from Oracle Confucianism founded in Legendary 3). As you can see, I was very late to Bronze Working and AH, but I had 3 of the 4 early religions under my belt.
Since my first tech was not a worker tech, my build order was Warrior (grow to 2 on same turn) -> Worker -> Warrior -> Warrior -> Settler.
Legendary 1 was settled in place. Since I had not learned Agriculture by the time my worker was finished, I mined the marble for a nice 5H tile. Legendary 2 was settled east to capture the Corn and Pigs. Legendary 3 was settled west to capture the pigs and all of the flood plains.
At 1000 BC, I had my 3 legendary cities, 3 workers, 3 religions, Stonehenge, Great Wall and the Oracle. All wonders were in Legendary 1. Even though I knew that I would have a lot of great person gene pool issues here, these wonders would contribute a lot of culture, especially when they hit the 1000-year-old mark prior to 1 AD.
In continued on my wonder spree. All wonders that generate great artist points were put in Legendary 2. The others were put into Legendary 1. By 500 AD, Ive added the Great Library, MoM and the Parthenon (in 2 turns). Im a bit slow at expanding as I only have 7 cities +1 settler by this time. Cathy has 2 cities on her island and has already been blocked from settling my direction unless she wants to settle on the ice to the north. Most of my time is spent building temples (14 so far) and spreading my 4 religions to all of my cities. I forgot to mention that I used an early GPro to bulb Theology, making me the first Christian on the planet in 575 BC who is this Jesus guy anyway?
Im so focused on my empire that I dont find the stone to the east for a long time. Since Ill be building Jewish and Christian cathedrals, I decide to settle a totally useless city on the stone for the bonus hammers. My GP Farm is rather weak up in the north capturing the crabs, fish and dear. There were better GP Farm locations, but at the time I settled mine, north was the safest place to go.
As I was building the last of my 9 temples per religion and queuing up cathedrals in my legendary cities, I realized that I was 1 city short!! I didnt want my GP farm to have to build temples and Stone had no way to produce 5 temples in a short amount of time. So, I settled my 6th auxiliary city in 1110 AD, which was way too late. At the end of the game, I had 11 cities (3 legendary, 6 auxiliary, GP Farm and Stone).
Each of my legendary cities had 5 cathedrals. I built the Hermitage in Legendary 2. I got a total of 15 great people:
- GPro T77 Bulb Theology T92
- GPro T102 Bulb Civil Service
- GArt T137 Settled in Legendary 2 from Music
- GSpy T138 Trigger Golden Age
- GPro T155 Hold for Golden Age Got at low odds. Was hoping for a GSci
- GArt T159 Settled in Legendary 2
- GPro T171 Settled in Legendary 1 - Got at low odds. Was hoping for a GSci
- GArt T187 Bombed in Legendary 3
- GSci T200 Used to trigger third Golden Age on T205 (second GA was triggered by Taj on T192)
- GArt T204 Bombed in Legendary 3
- GArt T211 Bombed in Legendary 3
- GArt T216 Bombed in Legendary 3
- GArt T221 Bombed in Legendary 3
- GArt T225 Bombed in Legendary 3
- GArt T229 Bombed in Legendary 2
Final results: Cultural victory in 1605 AD (T231). Base score 2004. Final score 41,528
I made several mistakes in this game, but Im only going to mention the main three:
- Messing around with my gold and the culture slider cost about 4 or 5 turns on my finish date. For some reason, I always end up with too much gold at the end of the game. I was running my culture slider low until I had most of the culture multiplying buildings finished in my three legendary cities. At 100% culture, I was probably losing about 150 gold/turn with 50 turns left in the game. By the end of the game, I had 431 gold and was getting +30 gold/turn at 100% culture. I could have had way more gold if I begged, borrowed or stole gold from the other AI. However, I didnt have to resort to that since I was never close to running out. Had I moved my culture slider to 100% sooner, I would have had a better finish date.
- Once I learned Liberalism, I did not revolt to Free Speech right away. I was waiting for my 7th great person, which was supposed to be a Great Scientist so that I could trigger a golden age and revolt to Free Speech without any anarchy. As it turns out, I got another GPro on T171. I learned Liberalism on T177 but still had it in my mind that I wanted to switch to Free Speech anarchy free. I didnt revolt to Free Religion until T182 (with anarchy, no less). I was still using OR and Slavery to help finish a few temples and Cathedrals, so I didnt switch to Caste System and Pacifism until T194 once the Taj Mahal Golden Age was underway. Had I switched to Free Speech on T177 (with anarchy) rather than T182 (with anarchy), I would have benefited from the +100% culture and the +2 gold per town (of which I had quite a few) several turns earlier.
- Building my final auxiliary city so late delayed getting my cathedrals finished in a timely manner. I had plenty of opportunities around 500 AD to settle this city, but for some reason I thought I had all of the cities I needed.
ngraner42
Ultrarunner
Mitchum, thank you for the interesting write up.
Mitchum
Deity
Moved my initial Settler for several turns before building Berlin near the flood plains to the west. Thought I'd go for fast Conquest since that's totally against character for me and if I can't do it on Noble I'll never manage it.
Round about 1400 AD I had Joao vassalized and wars with England and France underway. Realized that at this rate I wasn't going to have a truly "fast" conquest. So switched gears for domination. Ended up vassalizing everyone except the tiny Dutch empire. Spammed Settlers, Galleon chained like crazy, won with domination in 1615 AD.
Round about 1400 AD I had Joao vassalized and wars with England and France underway. Realized that at this rate I wasn't going to have a truly "fast" conquest. So switched gears for domination. Ended up vassalizing everyone except the tiny Dutch empire. Spammed Settlers, Galleon chained like crazy, won with domination in 1615 AD.
I took my part in cultural challenge and discovered one more time that playing in one session is bad for strategy.
Settled in place (LC 1), 2nd city atop a desert hill with pigs and flood plains (LC 2), 3rd deer silver lake Moai (should've made it LC3), etc.
My misses:
- lost Judaism ~2000 bc, played with 4 religions
- lost Pyrs
- lost HG after building useless aqueduct
- the most important - declared war on Cathy overproducing offensive, captured late, spent loads of hammers on swords, settlers, missionaries to never produce a single GA. Tushino (1N from Moscow site) became my LC 3.
LC 1 - non-artist wonders, riverside cottages and incense, buildings, artists. Over 1k culture per turn at finish
LC 2 - artist wonders, national epic, riverside cottages and pig, artists. Close to 900 culture per turn
LC 3 - artists, temples and monasteries. 400+bits culture per turn.
On top of this, my GA-producers coughed the last GA 10 turns from finish with no speed-up chances. Still, my cities finished during 3 turns consequently, so an extra GA would've saved me 1 turn, 2 GA - 2 turns ))
If I didn't miss Judaism and wage war on Cathy, I believe I could've finished ~1400AD instead of 1525 AD. Final civics - HRule + Free Speech + Castes + Merc + Pacifism.
Edit: 3 GAges (one from Taj), final bombing 0-3-9. Rare game when I built Sankore and Minaret.
Settled in place (LC 1), 2nd city atop a desert hill with pigs and flood plains (LC 2), 3rd deer silver lake Moai (should've made it LC3), etc.
My misses:
- lost Judaism ~2000 bc, played with 4 religions
- lost Pyrs
- lost HG after building useless aqueduct
- the most important - declared war on Cathy overproducing offensive, captured late, spent loads of hammers on swords, settlers, missionaries to never produce a single GA. Tushino (1N from Moscow site) became my LC 3.
LC 1 - non-artist wonders, riverside cottages and incense, buildings, artists. Over 1k culture per turn at finish
LC 2 - artist wonders, national epic, riverside cottages and pig, artists. Close to 900 culture per turn
LC 3 - artists, temples and monasteries. 400+bits culture per turn.
On top of this, my GA-producers coughed the last GA 10 turns from finish with no speed-up chances. Still, my cities finished during 3 turns consequently, so an extra GA would've saved me 1 turn, 2 GA - 2 turns ))
If I didn't miss Judaism and wage war on Cathy, I believe I could've finished ~1400AD instead of 1525 AD. Final civics - HRule + Free Speech + Castes + Merc + Pacifism.
Edit: 3 GAges (one from Taj), final bombing 0-3-9. Rare game when I built Sankore and Minaret.
Duckweed, good result with corporation-driven culture, especially effective at this low level with isolation until optics. With such huge cultural output you don't really need mch GA - you need GS to get to Medicine ASAP. With 1,7k per city 3 GA would've saved fewer than 2,5 turns in total.
PutCashIn
Prince
I choose prince, then with the isolation I decided I wouldnt be able to do a spaceship fast enough to look flash, so I went for the 'full game experience' / cow.
Was heaps of fun though, I thought the mini-Catherine was a laugh, looking forward to the difficulty rising up to 'medium' for the next few games.
Was heaps of fun though, I thought the mini-Catherine was a laugh, looking forward to the difficulty rising up to 'medium' for the next few games.
jesusin, contender. Goal: Gold Medal (points) while dreaming on getting fastest Spaceship at the same time
My game developed nicely. I was very pleased with what I was doing most of the game.
In the first spoiler I had ignored Pyramids (Democracy is so close anyway) and I had (ab)used Monarchy. 50 warriors kept my citizens happy in the 17 cities I had at 500AD.
Research was relatively slow due to not tech trading. I decided not to hope a lot from Noble tech trading, so I didn't prioritize Optics but Education and Oxford.
Barb Spearmen where allowed to pillage a bit, then they would suicide or get wounded against a warrior in a city and quickly finished by other warrior or a chariot.
620AD: Oxford.
Second GS and third used as Academy in FPs city and Moai's city, probably a mistake since I spent a long period later at 0%. HE and NE around 900AD cause I had ignored the upper part of the techtree so far. Parthenon too just because it was so cheap.
Liberalism was available around 840AD but I delayed it a bit.
Meet the others and circumnavigate around 1000AD, trade for Alpha, Mono, Feud and Construct. I am surprised to find they haven't even half-settled their islands yet. Will a pre-1000AD conquest beat my Sushi-milked score? I don't think so, there's quite a lot of seafood around.
1000AD Stats: 19 cities, 172 pop, 2set, 12 workers, 76 units (4Mace), 4 strategic resources, 2 luxury resources, 8 health resources, 3 great persons, 3 world wonders, 4 national wonders, food/production/commerce=437-162-792, 530 sustainable beakers per turn, 153 culture per turn, 63 great person points per turn, 1000 gold. 2 religions. 50/51 cottages used, 36 Techs: Optics, Feud, Music, Educ, Philo, PP, no Calen. 0 civs killed. 19 hours played.
MoM and TajMaj around 1100AD. Delaying Calendar so much and then researching it myself has cost me a lot in hammers for warriors and gold to maintain them. Revolt to Repre, FM, FR (and Emancipation during the only 5 turns I don't plan to whip anything in the whole game).
Liber for Democracy -Medicine will give more beakers but FR will help with that and I am anxious to get the SoL.
Attack Cathy with some 8 maces and 3 cats, take her 2 cities, there is a lot of food on her island, why does she stay at 2 cities? She's dead 1160AD. I have built 24 cities myself.
GPro used for c shrine.
1240AD: I have 38 cities, the last one in the jungle to build the NatPark, should have been settled ages ago to have Granary and Forge by now...
Building so many cities in this period is hurting my research, I don't get Medicine till 1280AD.
1250AD: I get my first Random Event, why are they so scarce, is it because of Noble level?
1260AD: SoL, huge move.
1280AD: 1 city sushied out of 43. Sushi gives +13fpt, I don't trade for more resources to keep economy going.
Sushi expansion: I am continuously building settler and cities while whipping executives from scratch so that I have 5 of them moving every turn. Isn't it unfair that an executive with 0 hammers on it takes 5 pop to whip, instead of 4, just because of rounding mistakes?
My research is completely halted. I am in a continuous GoldenAge now.
1350AD: 11 city sushied out of 46. 100K points if I won now.
1400AD: 25 city sushied out of 50. 112K points if I won now.
Every new city whips the following: granary, lh, forge, ch, harbor, grocer, supermaket, aqueduct. Unhappy citizens consume 2 food each, just the same as another specialist would, so no strong reason to build happiness improvements.
1480AD: 46 city sushied out of 65. 136K points if I won now.
1530AD: 73 city sushied out of 80. 186K points if I won now. 200 tiles left for domination.
1580AD: 92 city sushied out of 94. 268K points if I won now. 200 tiles left for domination.
In the meanwhile: NotreDame, WallStreet, IronWorks, Broadway.
1605AD: 95 city sushied out of 95. 325K points if I won now. 89 tiles left for domination. Sushi gives 27fpt.
1610AD: Apollo finished. Yes I have that crazy dream of getting fastest spaceship and gold medal at the same time, without one goal hurting the other. Quite silly idea.
1655AD: end of research. I forget there's a free GSpy lying in a stupid cheap tech. So I can't launch my 5GP powered GAge to accelerate spaceship building.
I learn a lot due to this mistake, I use 3 of them in WW and Corporations... they add 30points to my score each. Then I use one to bulb Fascism and it gets me 230 points. I now know Wonders is a no-factor regarding score.
1685AD: 99 city sushied out of 100. 412500 points if I won now. 9 tiles left for domination. I get Future Tech 1.
My borders have grown more than I expected. I won't be able to win by spaceship, need 20 turns. I am losing points every turn now, since most of my cities don't grow a pop per turn anymore.
Anti-climax victory 1705AD for 408180 points. 12 spacepart would have been finished in 2 turns allowing me to launch. I shouldn't have been building space parts but units all this time. That way I would have finished the game 5 turns before, while conquering 10 enemy cities simultaneously on the last turn, in style. I've lost a lot of points because of my stars-travelling dream. 59 hours of concentration spent, I wish I had played a nice and short cultural game..
My game developed nicely. I was very pleased with what I was doing most of the game.
In the first spoiler I had ignored Pyramids (Democracy is so close anyway) and I had (ab)used Monarchy. 50 warriors kept my citizens happy in the 17 cities I had at 500AD.
Research was relatively slow due to not tech trading. I decided not to hope a lot from Noble tech trading, so I didn't prioritize Optics but Education and Oxford.
Barb Spearmen where allowed to pillage a bit, then they would suicide or get wounded against a warrior in a city and quickly finished by other warrior or a chariot.
620AD: Oxford.
Second GS and third used as Academy in FPs city and Moai's city, probably a mistake since I spent a long period later at 0%. HE and NE around 900AD cause I had ignored the upper part of the techtree so far. Parthenon too just because it was so cheap.
Liberalism was available around 840AD but I delayed it a bit.
Meet the others and circumnavigate around 1000AD, trade for Alpha, Mono, Feud and Construct. I am surprised to find they haven't even half-settled their islands yet. Will a pre-1000AD conquest beat my Sushi-milked score? I don't think so, there's quite a lot of seafood around.
1000AD Stats: 19 cities, 172 pop, 2set, 12 workers, 76 units (4Mace), 4 strategic resources, 2 luxury resources, 8 health resources, 3 great persons, 3 world wonders, 4 national wonders, food/production/commerce=437-162-792, 530 sustainable beakers per turn, 153 culture per turn, 63 great person points per turn, 1000 gold. 2 religions. 50/51 cottages used, 36 Techs: Optics, Feud, Music, Educ, Philo, PP, no Calen. 0 civs killed. 19 hours played.
MoM and TajMaj around 1100AD. Delaying Calendar so much and then researching it myself has cost me a lot in hammers for warriors and gold to maintain them. Revolt to Repre, FM, FR (and Emancipation during the only 5 turns I don't plan to whip anything in the whole game).
Liber for Democracy -Medicine will give more beakers but FR will help with that and I am anxious to get the SoL.
Attack Cathy with some 8 maces and 3 cats, take her 2 cities, there is a lot of food on her island, why does she stay at 2 cities? She's dead 1160AD. I have built 24 cities myself.
GPro used for c shrine.
1240AD: I have 38 cities, the last one in the jungle to build the NatPark, should have been settled ages ago to have Granary and Forge by now...
Building so many cities in this period is hurting my research, I don't get Medicine till 1280AD.
1250AD: I get my first Random Event, why are they so scarce, is it because of Noble level?
1260AD: SoL, huge move.
1280AD: 1 city sushied out of 43. Sushi gives +13fpt, I don't trade for more resources to keep economy going.
Sushi expansion: I am continuously building settler and cities while whipping executives from scratch so that I have 5 of them moving every turn. Isn't it unfair that an executive with 0 hammers on it takes 5 pop to whip, instead of 4, just because of rounding mistakes?
My research is completely halted. I am in a continuous GoldenAge now.
1350AD: 11 city sushied out of 46. 100K points if I won now.
1400AD: 25 city sushied out of 50. 112K points if I won now.
Every new city whips the following: granary, lh, forge, ch, harbor, grocer, supermaket, aqueduct. Unhappy citizens consume 2 food each, just the same as another specialist would, so no strong reason to build happiness improvements.
1480AD: 46 city sushied out of 65. 136K points if I won now.
1530AD: 73 city sushied out of 80. 186K points if I won now. 200 tiles left for domination.
1580AD: 92 city sushied out of 94. 268K points if I won now. 200 tiles left for domination.
In the meanwhile: NotreDame, WallStreet, IronWorks, Broadway.
1605AD: 95 city sushied out of 95. 325K points if I won now. 89 tiles left for domination. Sushi gives 27fpt.
1610AD: Apollo finished. Yes I have that crazy dream of getting fastest spaceship and gold medal at the same time, without one goal hurting the other. Quite silly idea.
1655AD: end of research. I forget there's a free GSpy lying in a stupid cheap tech. So I can't launch my 5GP powered GAge to accelerate spaceship building.
I learn a lot due to this mistake, I use 3 of them in WW and Corporations... they add 30points to my score each. Then I use one to bulb Fascism and it gets me 230 points. I now know Wonders is a no-factor regarding score.
1685AD: 99 city sushied out of 100. 412500 points if I won now. 9 tiles left for domination. I get Future Tech 1.
My borders have grown more than I expected. I won't be able to win by spaceship, need 20 turns. I am losing points every turn now, since most of my cities don't grow a pop per turn anymore.
Anti-climax victory 1705AD for 408180 points. 12 spacepart would have been finished in 2 turns allowing me to launch. I shouldn't have been building space parts but units all this time. That way I would have finished the game 5 turns before, while conquering 10 enemy cities simultaneously on the last turn, in style. I've lost a lot of points because of my stars-travelling dream. 59 hours of concentration spent, I wish I had played a nice and short cultural game..
Played a second try, this time going for culture in order to collaborate in the "with/without sushi" discussion.
Fast, not very thought of game.
- I did something new this game, I forgot about getting fast to Liberalism and 100% culture. The idea was to concentrate on cathedrals instead.
- I did something stupid this game, I stayed from 1000BC to well past 1000AD in CS and OR. It should have been slavery+OR most of that time, CS+Pacifism the rest of the time.
- 11 cities game to get more GA and to get copper and stone connected. Abused Monarchy again with lots of warriors.
- GPFarm as Legendary, 5 religions, capital was cottage city with 5 cathedrals and Hermitage, FP city was farmed and was the GPFarm with 1 Sistine's-powered cathedral , SE city got 5 cottages only but a bunch of WW too and 5 cathedrals.
- 19GP: 1GS for Academy in capital, 1free from Music, 15GA bombed 2-10-3, 1 unlucky GS used for final GAge, 1 unused GA. Had I had luck with that GS, I would have saved 3 turns.
- I should have built forges in the 2 cities with cathedrals, Herm and WW
. Delaying Liberalism date for MC would have meant nothing. This would have been huge.
- 1525AD victory.
Development:
Poly first, War-Wor. Then Agri, BW, Wheel, Pott, AH, Wri, Mason, PH. Then War-Set-Wor-Set-Wor. 02 W 2560BC. 03 hammer city E. 04 Moai N. 05 horses W.
1000 BC Stats: 5 cities, 15 pop, 7 workers,25 sustainable beakers per turn, 2 cottages used.
Orac 900BC for CoL. HR+OR 500BC, 6cities. Having farmed the FPs, research is moving slowly. Founded hindu, jew, confu.
1AD Stats: 9 cities, 64 pop, 9 workers,64 sustainable beakers per turn, 16 cottages used.
Bu+CS in 125AD, HG too. Then Aesth, Parth, NE, Glib
500AD Stats: 9 cities, 108 pop, 9 workers,133 sustainable beakers per turn, 16 cottages used, 171GPPpt, 0Cath, Music, no Paper. 4reli
Sist, SoZ, tao, 1st Cath 560AD, no slav.
1000AD Stats: 11 cities, 9 workers,170 sustainable beakers per turn, 16 cottages used, 194GPPpt, 6Cath, Educ. 5reli. Still CS and OR!!!!!
1090AD: Liber-Natio. 8cath. REV: FS+Pacif. Calculate 1565AD victory with Herm in 01, best one.
1200AD, Hermit, Taj, 10Cath, Cult slider slightly up
Calculate again 1530AD expected. 11Cath. UniofSan. No forges huge mistake with so many caths. Calc 1520 or 1530 depending on GA luck.
WON 1525AD with an idle GA after bad luck(30%) non GA, -3t
Fast, not very thought of game.
- I did something new this game, I forgot about getting fast to Liberalism and 100% culture. The idea was to concentrate on cathedrals instead.
- I did something stupid this game, I stayed from 1000BC to well past 1000AD in CS and OR. It should have been slavery+OR most of that time, CS+Pacifism the rest of the time.
- 11 cities game to get more GA and to get copper and stone connected. Abused Monarchy again with lots of warriors.
- GPFarm as Legendary, 5 religions, capital was cottage city with 5 cathedrals and Hermitage, FP city was farmed and was the GPFarm with 1 Sistine's-powered cathedral , SE city got 5 cottages only but a bunch of WW too and 5 cathedrals.
- 19GP: 1GS for Academy in capital, 1free from Music, 15GA bombed 2-10-3, 1 unlucky GS used for final GAge, 1 unused GA. Had I had luck with that GS, I would have saved 3 turns.
- I should have built forges in the 2 cities with cathedrals, Herm and WW
. Delaying Liberalism date for MC would have meant nothing. This would have been huge.- 1525AD victory.
Development:
Poly first, War-Wor. Then Agri, BW, Wheel, Pott, AH, Wri, Mason, PH. Then War-Set-Wor-Set-Wor. 02 W 2560BC. 03 hammer city E. 04 Moai N. 05 horses W.
1000 BC Stats: 5 cities, 15 pop, 7 workers,25 sustainable beakers per turn, 2 cottages used.
Orac 900BC for CoL. HR+OR 500BC, 6cities. Having farmed the FPs, research is moving slowly. Founded hindu, jew, confu.
1AD Stats: 9 cities, 64 pop, 9 workers,64 sustainable beakers per turn, 16 cottages used.
Bu+CS in 125AD, HG too. Then Aesth, Parth, NE, Glib
500AD Stats: 9 cities, 108 pop, 9 workers,133 sustainable beakers per turn, 16 cottages used, 171GPPpt, 0Cath, Music, no Paper. 4reli
Sist, SoZ, tao, 1st Cath 560AD, no slav.
1000AD Stats: 11 cities, 9 workers,170 sustainable beakers per turn, 16 cottages used, 194GPPpt, 6Cath, Educ. 5reli. Still CS and OR!!!!!
1090AD: Liber-Natio. 8cath. REV: FS+Pacif. Calculate 1565AD victory with Herm in 01, best one.
1200AD, Hermit, Taj, 10Cath, Cult slider slightly up
Calculate again 1530AD expected. 11Cath. UniofSan. No forges huge mistake with so many caths. Calc 1520 or 1530 depending on GA luck.
WON 1525AD with an idle GA after bad luck(30%) non GA, -3t
Monnet
Chieftain
Oh, how I envy your early finish dates and your smooth cutural games! If only I could ever finish before the 1800s, I would spare myself the mess and the heartache that inevitably comes after, the hopelessness one feels when not able to build a spaceship as quickly as the other civs, the convoluted and brutal wars of the 20th century, and the embarrasing betrayal that comes from nuking to obliteration one of the cities of a 'friendly' civ, out of the blue, just to try to prevent their cultural victory. The shame! 
It must be nice not to have to experience the feeling of hanging constantly in the game by the skin of your teeth and finally snatching defeat from the tantalisingly close jaws of victory. Most of my games are like that.
Having said that, I really hoped that this one, being at Noble level, would not end up like that, but not such luck. It was a disaster throughout: superhuman barbarian longbows killing my infantry, constantly missing techs and wonders by a couple of turns, what seemed like retroactive defensive pacts being hatched at my expense... a catalogue of misfortunes too long to list.
Spaceship loss in 2003. Sorry to bother you all with the above, but sometimes I think the forum does not hear enough from the strugglers like me; I feel better now.
I second that!
It must be nice not to have to experience the feeling of hanging constantly in the game by the skin of your teeth and finally snatching defeat from the tantalisingly close jaws of victory. Most of my games are like that.
Having said that, I really hoped that this one, being at Noble level, would not end up like that, but not such luck. It was a disaster throughout: superhuman barbarian longbows killing my infantry, constantly missing techs and wonders by a couple of turns, what seemed like retroactive defensive pacts being hatched at my expense... a catalogue of misfortunes too long to list.
Spaceship loss in 2003. Sorry to bother you all with the above, but sometimes I think the forum does not hear enough from the strugglers like me; I feel better now.
I second that!
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 27,129
1838 UN Victory
Not much success lately in gotms, especially non-botms, for various reasons. I still think the Inca BOTM was jacked.
Anyway, UN was pretty much a given here. I could easily have ground out a space win but wanted to finish up quick. The UN victory could have come sooner, but, as usual, I lose focus some times
Early goal was to get Cathy's cities and eliminate her. No point in keeping her around. I think I did a decent job of not making this war a grind with my swords and cats, but still could improve on making these battles more decisive.
Later I fought wars with Izzy and De Gaule at a significant military advantage. Simply took a few cities to vassal them to insure easy UN win. Made lots of trades, gifts, and gave into demands with the others. Pretty straight forward at the end - i think everyone voted for me except my rival.
The biggest issues for an earlier win was sidetracking on techs late - like communism - to pick up some wonders like Kremlin. Really all that wasn't necessary. Also, the usual lack of focus in the early game although I think I'm getting better.
Overall, a fun game. With all these culture games going around I might try a replay.
Not much success lately in gotms, especially non-botms, for various reasons. I still think the Inca BOTM was jacked.
Anyway, UN was pretty much a given here. I could easily have ground out a space win but wanted to finish up quick. The UN victory could have come sooner, but, as usual, I lose focus some times
Early goal was to get Cathy's cities and eliminate her. No point in keeping her around. I think I did a decent job of not making this war a grind with my swords and cats, but still could improve on making these battles more decisive.
Later I fought wars with Izzy and De Gaule at a significant military advantage. Simply took a few cities to vassal them to insure easy UN win. Made lots of trades, gifts, and gave into demands with the others. Pretty straight forward at the end - i think everyone voted for me except my rival.
The biggest issues for an earlier win was sidetracking on techs late - like communism - to pick up some wonders like Kremlin. Really all that wasn't necessary. Also, the usual lack of focus in the early game although I think I'm getting better.
Overall, a fun game. With all these culture games going around I might try a replay.
I've enjoyed all the posts, but Monnet's was the most entertaining. I feel your pain. I ended up with a rather lame 1917 cultural win. I see I can improve ... a lot.
This is my first BOTM in a long time and I expected the game to be a wonder builderfest. I settled in place but missed a lot of the wonders that I started ( Mids and HG ) and only had one religion. I missed the GA for Music and had 3 extended Golden ages, in which I ran Pacifism. Tons of GP but only 2 GAs. I never went to war and Russia vassalized to me as soon as I researched Feudalism.
Thanks for the detailed write ups I think I'll try some replays to see if I can speed things up.
This is my first BOTM in a long time and I expected the game to be a wonder builderfest. I settled in place but missed a lot of the wonders that I started ( Mids and HG ) and only had one religion. I missed the GA for Music and had 3 extended Golden ages, in which I ran Pacifism. Tons of GP but only 2 GAs. I never went to war and Russia vassalized to me as soon as I researched Feudalism.
Thanks for the detailed write ups I think I'll try some replays to see if I can speed things up.
I feel like that sometimes. Games that went wrong, Deity games in general... those are the games I enjoy the most. I must be a masochist.
You are right. Many players only share write-ups when they have an amazing game, but when they lose they just say "horrible game for me this month"... if anything. I think that's a mistake, those are the games everybody would learn more from, if properly described.
Monnet, if you really want to save 300 years on your finish dates and save you all of that end-game efforts you describe, please share with they community what you did from 4000BC to 2000BC. A single improvement in this time frame will dramatically change the outcome of your games.
Popped Civ4 back in a week ago and played this BOTM as my first game back after a looooong break. I forgot a LOT of stuff.
Bad:
- totally mismanaged the isolation opportunity for early expansion on the continent
- didn't grab happy resources early so was pop limited for a long time
- no religion, at all
- totally unfocused early game, just played along with no goals
- crappy use of civic benefits
- lost Lib race on Noble...WTH...
- poor specialist management, no focused GP farm
- poor city specialization between commerce/production
- poor worker management to achieve any kind of useful city specialization
- meandering tech path, especially early on. No focus
- probably too much wonder spam, and early focus on the wrong wonders
- no real (timely) use of corporation benefits
Good:
- I didn't lose!
- Civ gave me a nice high ranking of Augustus Caesar
- I'm still good at war, although probably too conservative while waging it. Smashed Russia early, then beat up a poor backwards France, DESPITE Izzy being a pain in the ass an using AP votes to stop the war what seemed like every other turn. I ended up defying two of them to finish France off completely.
- Cruise mode to space victory, although I toyed with the idea of trying for a diplomatic one, but I wasn't quite well-liked enough for that.
All in all, I think I sucked...but that's compared to where my level of play was when I left off before: working on solo Monarch game, and doing some succession games higher than that!
Oh well, on to the next. Shaking off the rust and getting things moving!
Bad:
- totally mismanaged the isolation opportunity for early expansion on the continent
- didn't grab happy resources early so was pop limited for a long time
- no religion, at all
- totally unfocused early game, just played along with no goals
- crappy use of civic benefits
- lost Lib race on Noble...WTH...
- poor specialist management, no focused GP farm
- poor city specialization between commerce/production
- poor worker management to achieve any kind of useful city specialization
- meandering tech path, especially early on. No focus
- probably too much wonder spam, and early focus on the wrong wonders
- no real (timely) use of corporation benefits
Good:
- I didn't lose!
- Civ gave me a nice high ranking of Augustus Caesar
- I'm still good at war, although probably too conservative while waging it. Smashed Russia early, then beat up a poor backwards France, DESPITE Izzy being a pain in the ass an using AP votes to stop the war what seemed like every other turn. I ended up defying two of them to finish France off completely.
- Cruise mode to space victory, although I toyed with the idea of trying for a diplomatic one, but I wasn't quite well-liked enough for that.
All in all, I think I sucked...but that's compared to where my level of play was when I left off before: working on solo Monarch game, and doing some succession games higher than that!
Oh well, on to the next. Shaking off the rust and getting things moving!
My biggest mistake in my early days (that I haven't fully grown out of) was not recognizing that failing at one wonder likely meant I would fail at the next, too. Usually its because there is an Industrial AI who is wonder crazy, or an AI with Marble/Stone who I am not far ahead of in tech. Or the wonder only would help a city that can only build it slowly. It is very frustrating. Try to pick just one or two wonders that you really want, and are geared to help the kind of victory you think you will aim for; and enable them as soon as possible (which doesn't mean beeline their tech, always). Secure the resource that speeds them if you can.
And try to remember that losing one wonder probably means you are in very tight competition for the next, so it might be better to do something else. You can win quite comfortably with no wonders at all, if you do other aspects of the game well. But I know... it is sometimes a temptation that is hard to pass up for us builders. Remember slavery... pop grows back but wonders only go once. A little knowledge about overflow hammers from whipping something else might help, too. Better luck next time!
And thanks for sharing. The fastest way to improve is to tell the community what you did and learn from other's experiences. We like to feel useful too.
So I just remembered I needed to finish this one. A really poor conclusion all things considered, and I knew it before - I'd totally messed up my diplo victory conditions whilst spreading Judaism around the world. I was constantly under the threshold for dozens of turns because it spread in too many foreign cities - I simply didn't do it right, should have just had myself and Cathy and the third contender just enough so that it would actually allow the diplo victory vote to occur. But oh well, I loathe the AP's guts and pulled it off anyway, actually, it was a nice surprise and still decent fun.
Longer recap as I didn't post in the other thread - I took Challenger, makes no difference really, from the get go an incredibly easy game of course. As I said pre-game I was planning for religious the whole time, cause I could. Founded Judaism, got the Oracle and the slew of normal good wonders like the Great Library, easy empire building the rest of the way. Except the fact we are isolated/non-Pangea threw off any hopes for an early AD-ish religious win, so I had to tech to Caravels. Which actually worked out all right if I'd gotten my missionaries quite right, wasn't really micromanaging score or tech or anything by that point, besides my missionary highways on the high seas.
(Yeah, again, I spread WAY too many missionaries, one per civ would have been better..Joao at friendly was great until he became the rival for election, and I trapped myself in a cycle of spreading missionaries to folks who didn't need them, and the religion kept autospreading far too much too. A good experience though, if I ever would go for this victory again, which I honestly just don't. But I love the island hopping technique and always have since the days of civ III, had one here on the eastern side and south to Joao/William)
Anyway, I took all the tech/wonders I cared for, kinda fun on such a difficulty level, I didn't quite use liberalism to get Fusion but it certainly could have been done (not optimal for space race of course though, I know). After turns of messing around with gifting lots of resources and dozens of techs the effort paid off and I actually was genuinely surprised and happy about one thing - William voted for me, even though he was not at "Friendly" on the modifiers. I'd been working DeGaulle for ages, didn't join in the war against Izzy which I put him into as Nationhood civics were enough, but still, William the Dastardly Dutchman actually outsmarted BUG mod
My favorite things from the game, keep it light and simple
Religious population dominance I've not seen in a game since my last run at Ashen Veil...
Cathy worships the ground I walk on...she most certainly would do nasty things at the snap of my fingers, just about everything is there
Longer recap as I didn't post in the other thread - I took Challenger, makes no difference really, from the get go an incredibly easy game of course. As I said pre-game I was planning for religious the whole time, cause I could. Founded Judaism, got the Oracle and the slew of normal good wonders like the Great Library, easy empire building the rest of the way. Except the fact we are isolated/non-Pangea threw off any hopes for an early AD-ish religious win, so I had to tech to Caravels. Which actually worked out all right if I'd gotten my missionaries quite right, wasn't really micromanaging score or tech or anything by that point, besides my missionary highways on the high seas.
Spoiler :
(Yeah, again, I spread WAY too many missionaries, one per civ would have been better..Joao at friendly was great until he became the rival for election, and I trapped myself in a cycle of spreading missionaries to folks who didn't need them, and the religion kept autospreading far too much too. A good experience though, if I ever would go for this victory again, which I honestly just don't. But I love the island hopping technique and always have since the days of civ III, had one here on the eastern side and south to Joao/William)
Anyway, I took all the tech/wonders I cared for, kinda fun on such a difficulty level, I didn't quite use liberalism to get Fusion but it certainly could have been done (not optimal for space race of course though, I know). After turns of messing around with gifting lots of resources and dozens of techs the effort paid off and I actually was genuinely surprised and happy about one thing - William voted for me, even though he was not at "Friendly" on the modifiers. I'd been working DeGaulle for ages, didn't join in the war against Izzy which I put him into as Nationhood civics were enough, but still, William the Dastardly Dutchman actually outsmarted BUG mod
Spoiler :
My favorite things from the game, keep it light and simple
Religious population dominance I've not seen in a game since my last run at Ashen Veil...
Spoiler :
Cathy worships the ground I walk on...she most certainly would do nasty things at the snap of my fingers, just about everything is there
Spoiler :
@jesusin
Good job on showing a well played culture victory! It seems that Sushi could work better in this map.
Could you please upload your final save, I am sure I could learn something from you.
It wasn't well played at all!
Any info different than a savegame that you are specially interested in?
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