Bottleneck Techs

[dilophosaur]

Still not true city, but central area, yes.

 

[Hydromancerx]

If a split was made Tribalism would seem to me a logical tech.

However there are not many techs between Tribalism and Sedentary Lifestyle tech.

 

[Taxman66]

I suggest not bothering with a prehistoric split until the Nomadic start is implemented. At that point the natural split/bottleneck text would be said tech that enables your permanent settlement (unless sed lifestyle was the plan for that).

 

[Thunderbrd]

unless sed lifestyle was the plan for that)

In my vision, it is the plan for this tech to enable that.

 

[raxo2222]

Are bottlenecks supposed to be bit leaky? Also there is no Information era and later bottlenecks.
Sedimentary lifestyle leaves 19 Prehistoric techs behind (3 of them are religions).

Classical lifestyle -
10 Prehistoric techs and 32 Ancient techs (10 of them are religions though)

Medieval lifestyle -
8 Prehistoric, 14 Ancient, and 32 Classical techs (8 of them are religions)

Reneissance lifestyle -
5 Prehistoric, 11 Ancient, 11 Classical and 17 Medieval techs (3 of them are religions)

Industrial lifestyle -
4 Prehistoric, 11 Ancient, 9 Classical, 8 Medieval and 17 Reneissance techs (1 is religion)

Modern lifestyle -
3 Prehistoric religions and Megafauna domestication, 10 Ancient religions, 8 Classical religions and one tech needing building, 3 Medieval religions, Mountaineering and Clockpunk, 6 Reneissance techs (just one is religion), and 29 Industrial techs (2 of them are religions).

Last tech on tech tree - 858 techs needed.
Unnedeed techs for it:
3 Prehistoric religions and Megafauna domestication.
10 Ancient religions.
8 Classical religions and Waterproof concrete.
3 Medieval religions, Mountaineering and Clockpunk.
Reneissance religion and Lead glass.
2 Industrial religions and Steampunk.
Coast Guard, Scientology and Atompunk. (modern techs)
Biopunk and Cyberpunk (Information techs)
Nanopunk (Natotech era), Space punk (Transhuman) and Star punk, Fantasy Materials (Galactic).
Mod has over 900 mods!

 

[Thunderbrd]

We haven't yet done the Gateway techs for later eras and the goal is not to ensure all techs are earned before you can research them. It is more about having a single entry point into the era so as to establish era based modifiers that come from autobuildings and tech on a single technology. All techs AFTER the gateway must require the gateway but not all techs before the gateway must be researched first.

 

[raxo2222]

We haven't yet done the Gateway techs for later eras and the goal is not to ensure all techs are earned before you can research them. It is more about having a single entry point into the era so as to establish era based modifiers that come from autobuildings and tech on a single technology. All techs AFTER the gateway must require the gateway but not all techs before the gateway must be researched first.

Ah so it isn't for collecting loose ends but for tying loose era beginning techs.
But after filtering out punks and religions (is Megafaunda Domestication actually prehistory-punk?) following techs are left behind: Mountaineering, Coast Guard, Waterproof Concrete, Lead Glass and Fantasty Materials meaning you don't have research them to became Time Lord ;^)

---------------------------------------------
Prehistoric: 99 techs
Ancient: 91 techs
Classical: 60 techs
Medieval: 54 techs
Reneissance: 59 techs
Industrial: 63 techs
Modern: 93 techs <----- Midgame - somewhere in Modern era you researched 50% of all techs
Information: 80 techs (Moon + Mars)
Nano: 82 techs (Inner planets)
Transhuman: 74 techs (colonization of whole solar system)
Galactic: 63 techs
Cosmic: 50 techs
Transcendental: 51 techs

This mod has 919 techs and 13 eras!
That is 70.7 techs per era.

 

[pepper2000]

Fantasy Materials isn't supposed to be a dead end. I'll fix that. I don't think Mountaineering or Coast Guard should be dead ends either.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

They don't have to be dead end techs to be "left out". Techs that are "or" prerequisites can also be "left out".

 

[JosEPh_II]

Ah so it isn't for collecting loose ends but for tying loose era beginning techs.
But after filtering out punks and religions (is Megafaunda Domestication actually prehistory-punk?) following techs are left behind: Mountaineering, Coast Guard, Waterproof Concrete, Lead Glass and Fantasty Materials meaning you don't have research them to became Time Lord ;^)

---------------------------------------------
Prehistoric: 99 techs
Ancient: 91 techs
Classical: 60 techs
Medieval: 54 techs
Reneissance: 59 techs
Industrial: 63 techs
Modern: 93 techs <----- Midgame - somewhere in Modern era you researched 50% of all techs
Information: 80 techs (Moon + Mars)
Nano: 82 techs (Inner planets)
Transhuman: 74 techs (colonization of whole solar system)
Galactic: 63 techs
Cosmic: 50 techs
Transcendental: 51 techs

This mod has 919 techs and 13 eras!

You must be Really Bored!

 

[raxo2222]

You must be Really Bored!

That actually was fast - first I selected techs on end of era, and then I picked remainder techs.
From total selected amount I substracted techs, that were in previous eras ;^)

Edit: name suggestions for lifestyle techs:
Prehistoric: Nomandic Lifestyle
Ancient: Sedimentary Lifestyle (Prehistoric/Ancient are here for completeness)
Classical: Antique Lifestyle (Antique is good name for good old Classic )
Medieval: Feudal Lifestyle (Feudalism/vassalage was mainstream)
Reneissance: Colonial Lifestyle (Beginning of exploration and colonization of world)
Industrial: Urban Lifestyle (Mass urbanization began in its earnest)
Modern: 20th Century Lifestyle (Modern era spans most of 20th century)
Information: Cotemporary Lifestyle (We are here in middle of this era)
Nano: Tomorrow Lifestyle (What may come in near future)
Transhuman: Interplanetary Lifestyle (Colonization of Solar System)
Galactic: Interstellar Lifestyle (Colonization of Galaxy)
Cosmic: Intergalactic Lifestyle (Colonization of Universe)
Transcendental: Multiversal Lifestyle (Endless Expansion)
Future: Rename "String Analysis" to "Ultra Distant Future Lifestyle"

 

[raxo2222]

@Hydromancerx what about my suggestons for names of lifestyle techs?

 

[Hydromancerx]

Honestly most of them I dislike. Urban Lifestyle is the only one maybe I would agree with. But really I think them named after their eras sounds better even if its not very creative.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Urban Lifestyle is already a tech in the modern era unless someone renamed it.

 

[raxo2222]

AH well...

 

[mosesj]

I don't really like the idea of bottleneck techs tbh

I find it a massive pain to wait until I research classical era and I find it really bogs down the game.

the main issue I have with it is that you have to research a lot of techs that provide minimal benefits (linguistics, heating, ect) that don't feel as good as the first time you research trade or metal casting.

just my two cents on the subject

 

[Thunderbrd]

You don't have to fill out every tech in the era before you can progress. These purely make it so there's only one tech that brings you into the era, which is convenient on a lot of levels.

 

[mosesj]

Just giving my thoughts is all. There was a discussion earlier that I think I agree with, it would be cool to see some of the ancient era techs moved to classical era

 

[JosEPh_II]

Just giving my thoughts is all. There was a discussion earlier that I think I agree with, it would be cool to see some of the ancient era techs moved to classical era

Sorry to say, Not gonna happen for awhile. Already went thru 1 major overhaul and it's still not 100% done. Then all Game Speeds have to be re adjusted and re balanced for the changes to the tech tree as well. I'm still sorting all that out too. And pepper2000 is still not done with the 5 New late game eras and changes this caused either.

 

[Enchanteur]

As just a player, I like Bootleneck because it make gameplay more clear.
What I dislike is the tech-tree structure, as I'm also an Endless legend player (and modder), in this game tech order is free.
But civilization need tech tree !
An ideal system could be : keep a tech tree, so you have to get some specifics techs for reaching next era.
But also : reaching next era ask also a specified number of techs.
Here there is freedom for the player, and also, It can be enjoyable to choose dead end techs (it's actualy not the case).

Example :
Prehistoric have : 99 techs.
The optimal tree pathways toward next era : 32 Techs. (it's just my example, it's certainly more in the mod).
Number of techs to get for unlocking next era : 68 Techs.

So here, you can consider that there is specifics techs that are an OBLIGATION to research for reaching next era :
32 techs are not optionals !
As number of recquired techs is 68, it means you get : 68 - 32 = 34 additionnal but free techs to research.
Player can there really choose what he want to get, without loosing time and efficience on the next era goal.
Even best, with that player can get "dead end tech" without penalty.
for now, you can consider there is many useless techs a players will never get. Not because he don't need it or don't like it, but just because he need to rush next era via the tech tree.
I think this is the real source of the problem.

I add to that : with this system, tech tree need to be rework a little in a way there is less Obligatorys techs. A balance need to be find beetween the obligations, and the freedom you give to player.

Last word : with a system like this, you get also a control level on player progression, as too pass eras is dependent of a number of techs.
Variation, instead of a number of techs, it can be also a "number of science" spendt for researching these free techs. Like that, you can track value of a very easy tech to research and a very costly one. But it's less clear for the player. Also, with a number of techs, player can make another choice : looking for cheap but not very powerfull techs (going next eras faster), or looking for more usefull techs. All of this need to be think more.