Boycott Bee!

[Manfred Belheim]

I'm not the one who started carrying on about "a complete anathema to the concept of democracy."

No but you felt the need to reply to my reply to someone who was. And then demand I start talking about what you want to talk about. Or at least that seems to be what's happening. You're asking me why Melania Trump should get a pass on her duties as First Lady, as if I've ever said anything to indicate I even remotely give a crap about such things. I'm not interested. It's not what my point was at all.

 

[metalhead]

Quote where I ever said Melania is to blame for being abused. I never said that.

I said she's an idiot for marrying a known cheater. Even if abuse is never part of the marriage, that in and of itself is an idiotic thing for a woman to do.

Why? What if she doesn't care if he cheats on her? This is an extraordinarily judgmental statement to make.

I don't blame her in any way if Trump has abused her. That's on him, if it happened. But she was dumb to walk into marriage with someone who is incapable of respecting his wives enough to remain faithful to them. That's a red flag that should be a warning to anyone.

Red flag for what, exactly? That he'd cheat on her? Who cares?

What I posted about was abuse. If what you're saying isn't related to abuse, then I don't understand why you're bringing it up in this context.

In Trump's case, there was enough crap in the news over a period of decades to give her reason to think ten times before marrying him. Why she would expect it to be a bed of roses based on past evidence, I have no idea.

In Slovenia? Were 100% of Slovenians aware of this? You're making an extraordinary claim here that simply doesn't make any logical sense. Just because something is in tabloids in the United States doesn't mean everyone in the world automatically knows about it.

And this still has nothing to do with abuse.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Red flag for what, exactly? That he'd cheat on her? Who cares?

What I posted about was abuse. If what you're saying isn't related to abuse, then I don't understand why you're bringing it up in this context.

Cheating IS a form of abuse. Not all abuse is physical. When a woman knows her husband is gallivanting around with another woman and doesn't give a damn that she knows it, how is that not abusive? Or don't you consider psychological/emotional abuse to be real?

In Slovenia? Were 100% of Slovenians aware of this? You're making an extraordinary claim here that simply doesn't make any logical sense. Just because something is in tabloids in the United States doesn't mean everyone in the world automatically knows about it.

Oh, so he went to Slovenia, picked her out of a lineup, said, "You are going to marry me, you don't get to say no, so get your coat and let's go"?

Funny, that's not the impression I got.

 

[metalhead]

Cheating IS a form of abuse. Not all abuse is physical. When a woman knows her husband is gallivanting around with another woman and doesn't give a damn that she knows it, how is that not abusive? Or don't you consider psychological/emotional abuse to be real?

So then you are blaming her for her own abuse. You swore this wasn't what you were doing, but if you're going to claim that cheating is abuse, I don't see how you can possibly say you aren't blaming her for it. That's exactly what you're doing, saying she should have known she'd suffer this abuse and therefore it's her fault for marrying him.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

So then you are blaming her for her own abuse. You swore this wasn't what you were doing, but if you're going to claim that cheating is abuse, I don't see how you can possibly say you aren't blaming her for it. That's exactly what you're doing, saying she should have known she'd suffer this abuse and therefore it's her fault for marrying him.

Ohforpetessake.

Stop putting words on my keyboard.

Cheating is something Trump is, and was, famous for. Any sensible woman would not marry a known cheater. No, that doesn't mean she deserves what she gets, if he opts to continue this behavior. But she shouldn't be surprised, either.

As for physical abuse, where's the evidence?

 

[Berzerker]

“I have to say, I saw it coming. I warned everybody,” said the 59-year-old actor, who was married to Barr for four rocky years. Arnold was also a writer and actor on the original “Roseanne” show before Barr fired him in 1994, the same year the couple got divorced.

When asked on Monday whether he thought Barr was a racist, Arnold responded: “Er, yeah, obviously.”

“I base that on the last six months of her tweeting and social media,” he continued, pointing out her support of President Donald Trump, whom Arnold described as also a “racist,” and her touting of conspiracy theories about Democrats.

From Tom Arnold...

Notice how he calls her a racist based on the last 6 months of tweets and her support for Trump? How can you be married to someone for 4 years and not know they're racist?

 

[metalhead]

Stop putting words on my keyboard.

I'm not. I said she's captive to an abusive monster. You said it's a captivity of her own making. I don't know how to interpret that as anything other than saying the situation is of her own making. As the situation is of her own making, one can only reasonably conclude, then, that she is also responsible for the repercussions, including the abuse.

Cheating is something Trump is, and was, famous for. Any sensible woman would not marry a known cheater. No, that doesn't mean she deserves what she gets, if he opts to continue this behavior. But she shouldn't be surprised, either.

OK, so then maybe she isn't sensible. Does that then mean she deserves to be abused? I still don't understand where this line of reasoning leads other than to blame and shame Melania Trump.

As for physical abuse, where's the evidence?

Well, he abused his first 2 wives physically and emotionally. The same reason we would conclude he'd go on cheating, we can reasonably conclude he'd abuse his 3rd wife too.

Although I never said anything about actual physical abuse. One need not be physically abusive to be controlling, in the way it currently appears Trump is doing in keeping Melania completely away from the public and without any way of even confirming she is OK.

I don't know what is going on. All I know is that a man with a history of spousal abuse, whose wife hasn't been seen in public in several weeks, is a really bad sign.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I'm not. I said she's captive to an abusive monster. You said it's a captivity of her own making. I don't know how to interpret that as anything other than saying the situation is of her own making. As the situation is of her own making, one can only reasonably conclude, then, that she is also responsible for the repercussions, including the abuse.



OK, so then maybe she isn't sensible. Does that then mean she deserves to be abused? I still don't understand where this line of reasoning leads other than to blame and shame Melania Trump.



Well, he abused his first 2 wives physically and emotionally. The same reason we would conclude he'd go on cheating, we can reasonably conclude he'd abuse his 3rd wife too.

The only sensible thing you've said in this post is that you don't understand where I'm coming from. I've explained many times, and you just don't get it.

She walked into a gilded cage, of her own free choice. It was not a sensible decision. What happened after that is on him, not her.

If that's not clear enough, any further interaction is pointless.

You and I are done here.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Wait.......Was I following this thread right, because it seems the argument has been that because Melania doesn't like doing first lady things, she was blackmailed into marrying Trump?

How did she not want to be a first lady if she was the one to encourage Trump to run in the first place?

Yes, I know, according to New York Magazine article she didn't think he would win and never would have suggested he run if he was going to win, but according to that article, Trump himself didn't want to win, either.

 

[Ryika]

edit:

Hmmmm. This can't be good......

Fake.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Fake.

Well then good thing i put it under an Onion post.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

But as shown in the thread here, there are some male forum members who think it's okay to insult me in the same very specific, disgusting way. So yeah, this whole thing is highly offensive.

Men are trash, and I am not particularly interested in their opinion on this incident. The point is that many women said that Samantha Bee wasn't offensive because she wasn't attacking Ivanka Trump based on her gender, but based on her hypocrisy. Again, this was conveniently re-stated by this forum member here:

Her point wasn't about Ivanka's involvement in her father's administration, her point was that Ivanka is making insipid pro-family and family-togetherness posts on instagram while her father is engaging in a government program to literally tear families apart.

Her use of the word was intentionally vile and scandalous to equal the vileness of the literal concentration camps this administration has set up to "handle" immigrant families. Bee's use of the term was unfortunate only inasmuch as it has given people writ large the license to ignore the larger point.

As for Melania Trump, nobody held a gun on her and forced her to marry a man who she had to have known had a pattern of cheating on his wives. His political aspirations are irrelevant as far as that's concerned. If a woman is stupid enough to marry a serial cheater, she's an even bigger idiot to expect that things would be different with her.

That's a very naïve worldview and like I said, it smells of victim shaming. If life were so easy, then everybody would leave abusive relationships and never marry *******s. While Trump's previous wife Ivana mentioned that he raped her (which is worse than cheating btw), we don't know if Melania knew that. We really don't know how much Melania knew and how much English she even spoke when she met Trump.

There is a whole business for American men to import Eastern European wives, so let's not pretend like Trump and Melania are on an equal footing here.

You seem to be concerned with very petty and insignificant events, like Ivanka being called a **** or Trump cheating, while overlooking much more serious and disturbing issues.

 

[metalhead]

The only sensible thing you've said in this post is that you don't understand where I'm coming from. I've explained many times, and you just don't get it.

She walked into a gilded cage, of her own free choice. It was not a sensible decision. What happened after that is on him, not her.

But that's not an explanation. What is casting her decision as "not sensible," if not an assignment of blame, considering you are viewing it as having been made voluntarily and with full knowledge?

 

[NovaKart]

This whole discussion is based on speculation and gossip about Trump and Melania’s marriage.

 

[Broken_Erika]

This whole discussion is based on speculation and gossip about Trump and Melania’s marriage.

The Thread has turned into a Civfan Entertainment Tonight Special.

 

[metalhead]

This whole discussion is based on speculation and gossip about Trump and Melania’s marriage.

Yes, because spousal abuse is trivial.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Yes, because spousal abuse is trivial.

In the broad spectrum of Trump's criminal and otherwise anti-social behaviors, it might be.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Men are trash, and I am not particularly interested in their opinion on this incident. The point is that many women said that Samantha Bee wasn't offensive because she wasn't attacking Ivanka Trump based on her gender, but based on her hypocrisy.

Then she should have called her a hypocrite and been done with it.

That's a very naïve worldview and like I said, it smells of victim shaming. If life were so easy, then everybody would leave abusive relationships and never marry <snip>. While Trump's previous wife Ivana mentioned that he raped her (which is worse than cheating btw), we don't know if Melania knew that. We really don't know how much Melania knew and how much English she even spoke when she met Trump.

There is a whole business for American men to import Eastern European wives, so let's not pretend like Trump and Melania are on an equal footing here.

Even mail-order brides get to say "no".

You seem to be concerned with very petty and insignificant events, like Ivanka being called a <snip> or Trump cheating, while overlooking much more serious and disturbing issues.

Y'know what? I'm more than tired of people telling me what I said and what I mean, when I am capable of knowing that for myself.

How's this?

My mother married her second husband, knowing that he had certain personality traits that were not indicative of good character. She walked into that of her own free will. Did she deserve what happened later? No. But nobody held a gun to her head on the day of the wedding.

I see this as basically the same thing as the Trumps' situation.

 

[Lexicus]

In the broad spectrum of Trump's criminal and otherwise anti-social behaviors, it might be.

Considering that Trump is now certainly guilty of crimes for which Nazis did time at Nuremberg, there's no "might be" about it.

 

[Traitorfish]

Men are trash, and I am not particularly interested in their opinion on this incident. The point is that many women said that Samantha Bee wasn't offensive because she wasn't attacking Ivanka Trump based on her gender, but based on her hypocrisy. Again, this was conveniently re-stated by [Owen]:

You're going to have to pick one of these.