Brave New World's 9 new Civs

[Scaramanga]

You will have to wait a few more weeks then. Remember last year the Zulu fanatics were convinced that the Zulu were in even up to the point that Gustavus Adolphus was partially revealed? And then remember the forum rage? If Italy is not in, you will have several days (and more than a dozen thread pages) worth of lamentations and rage to consume yourself with.

I'm a fan of Venice, but I don't delude myself imagining their chances are all that high.

It seems slightly more delusional to believe in Italy though since the Zulu have precedent (we could assume they'd eventually arrive as DLC or something).

 

[SnowKomodo]

Ha, I remember...

At this point, the situation with the Zulu last year is most comparable to the situation with Indonesia/Majapahit this time around. We had no evidence to suggest that the Zulu would be added with G&K, and there is nothing at all to suggest that Indonesia will be in, but there's a strong feeling that they 'should' be. Italy, on the other hand... there's nothing conclusive so far, but there are some indicators: Venice's apparent removal, the Scramble for Africa achievement which specifically speaks of playing as Italy in the scenario, etc. In fact, I would rate their chances as only slightly below Morocco's at this point.

It is probably true that the forum would go crazy if they weren't added, though.

Just slightly different. A ton of people think Indonesia/Majapahit is long overdue but also think they have a slim chance.

Zulu supporters last year felt strongly about them but also thought they had a good chance at making it in.

 

[Buccaneer]

At the end of the day, how about just waiting until release to see the new civs and city-states? I don't think any purchase decisions is going to be made based on who is or not, so it's kind of irrelevant. They could number each civs and city-state 1 to whatever and as long as they are fun to play and are balanced, that's all that matters.

 

[Gucumatz]

Again Scaramanga, not really. I certainly don't want Italy in and neither do several others here, there are just too many little indicators in their favor at the minute. There was nothing in the favor of the Zulu in Gods and Kings (Hence the bet I laid against TheKingofBigOz )

 

[ImperialChaos]

Priceless: Seeing people's reactions if Italy is included... with Benito Mussolini as the leader.

Better yet: Italy with Berlusconi.

On topic; I was neutral on the subject of Italy being added but now I'm quite hyped for it. Italy could make good use of BNW's new features. Tourism and culture especially.

 

[blackcatatonic]

Just slightly different. A ton of people think Indonesia/Majapahit is long overdue but also think they have a slim chance.

Zulu supporters last year felt strongly about them but also thought they had a good chance at making it in.

True - although I get the impression that the perception that their chances have got worse has only really been around since the achievement list was released, and with it the assumption that we cannot have Italy and Morocco - the two front-runners - as well as either Indonesia or Majapahit (and Srivijaya just seems unlikely anyway).

Before that, it seemed that they had as good a chance as anyone. And polls have consistently shown that they are among the most popular Civs still not in the game.

 

[blackcatatonic]

Better yet: Italy with Berlusconi.

UA: Bunga Bunga parties?

On topic; I was neutral on the subject of Italy being added but now I'm quite hyped for it. Italy could make good use of BNW's new features. Tourism and culture especially.

This for me, too. I'd expect them to be Renaissance-focused, with Florence as the capital, and potentially a modern UU (or Genoese Crossbowmen). I'd actually be quite sad if they're not added at this point (although I'll be more sad if Indonesia don't make it - but then again, at this point, I'm expecting Vietnam instead anyway).

 

[Menzies]

Or Firaxis could just be messing with us

The last piece of information we got about city states that was vaguely new was before we came up with the city state colour-type analysis. I doubt they'd have thought too much about it before then. New information now might be messed with a little potentially, but it's been so long since they gave us something about Civilizations to chew on that they really haven't had a chance to screw with us as such.

From the amount of city states we have seen coupled with the amount of Italian city states that exist, it makes the probabilities fairly high (although it lessened to a smaller extent by the degree of new city state combo additions). Add to that list the tones of voice of Shirk and examples in interviews regarding renaissance Italy, I think the odds are at the minute pretty fairly in Italy's favor, it is hard to deny it (I would say ~ 65% at the minute)

The only civ with higher probability than that is Morocco of course, every other civ possibility is below 50% imo

The least convincing analysis puts Italy at least 1-5 to be in (~80%+) and to be honest, I would rate the odds of them breaking how they dealt with city states as extremely low, and when I say extremely low, I mean extremely low. I'd rate them higher than Morocco to be honest, for Morocco we have an off hand mention that could be a mistake, and a vague image on a poster. I'd pretty much expect them to be in, but Italy are about as close to a lock as we could have without them specifically being revealed at this point.

 

[ImperialChaos]

UA: Bunga Bunga parties?

Spoiler :

 

[nunor]

Better yet: Italy with Berlusconi.

The thing is, Italy with Mussolini is actually possible...

 

[Dragonflow]

The thing is, Italy with Mussolini is actually possible...

I don't think Firaxis would do that. They cut Mao and Stalin in Civ5, so I doubt they'll add Mussolini.

 

[nunor]

Yes, I doubt it too, but there's always a slim chance... whereas Berlusconi is 100% sure not to be there.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Again Scaramanga, not really. I certainly don't want Italy in and neither do several others here, there are just too many little indicators in their favor at the minute. There was nothing in the favor of the Zulu in Gods and Kings (Hence the bet I laid against TheKingofBigOz )

Yeah. I think Italy will be in as well and I advocated for Venice. The fact that Italy seems likely disappoints me because it means Venice will not be in. Plus, I'm still annoyed by the Rome situation. Others who think Italy will be in want none of them in. This is nothing like the Zulu situation. If anything, it's closer to Sweden. There were a few people who suggested right before the last civ reveal that a logical civ because of the scenario was Sweden and that we shouldn't pin our hopes on precedent for the Zulu to be included. Those people ended up being right.

 

[Menzies]

 

[SnowKomodo]

Before that, it seemed that they had as good a chance as anyone. And polls have consistently shown that they are among the most popular Civs still not in the game.

This is why I'm bothered that it's not looking good for them: Indonesia is only one of three civs to have led one of the major "What Civ Next" polls at one point or another (over at Ideas and Suggestions) since G&K was released (I believe Portugal and Zulu were the other two)

 

[Merciorum]

At a guess, I'd say:

Morocco, because of the Kasbah and the other factors I've just been informed of, or Oman, because it also fits most of those factors and would fit nicely into the new trade system. Both were very powerful states in their day, so I'd say both have a fair shot.

Majapahit, because they really should've been included by now.

Italy, because of the vast contribution to the arts they made, which simply cannot be ignored, even if they weren't a unified power, or what I'm really hoping for, Venice, because not only was the Venetian contribution to arts and culture extremely significant, but also because they held a powerful empire in their own right, would fit in nicely to the new trade system, dominated the trade of the eastern Mediterranean, and were historically one of the most powerful states in that part of the world.

The Sioux, because they are more famous and I'm expecting one civ from the Americas, or hopefully The Cherokee, because they are far more deserving of inclusion, as a result of their immense ability to adapt to Western customs while retaining their traditions, and survive until the early 20th century with a degree of independence, which is more than can be said for most other Native Americans.

For leaders:

Morocco: Abd al-Mu'min.
Oman: Not sure.
Italy: Cosimo or Lorenzo de Medici.
Venice: Not sure.
Majapahit: Gaja Madah/ Raden Wijaya.
The Sioux: Sitting Bull.
The Cherokee: Major Ridge/John Ross.

 

[ImperialChaos]

Yes, I doubt it too, but there's always a slim chance... whereas Berlusconi is 100% sure not to be there.

I was joking, of course. Mussolini has no chance. He is too controversial of a figure to be the leader of an unprecedented Italian civ.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I still think it would be hilarious to play against Mussolini. I would find his pompous buffoonery to be most entertaining.

When you first meet him he's got a stop watch and a train schedule. If he's more powerful than you, he hates you, but if you are more powerful than him, he loves you. He's constantly begging for help when he's at war. Each era he inexplicably has more medals on his uniform. When you defeat him he gets strung up by his own people.

 

[Loaf Warden]

I was joking, of course. Mussolini has no chance. He is too controversial of a figure to be the leader of an unprecedented Italian civ.

Stalin and Mao have both been in Civ more than once, and they were both far worse than Mussolini. True, neither is in Civ V, but I wouldn't go so far as to say Mussolini has "no chance". If they design Italy to go with the new Ideology system, he's the logical choice. I don't say it wouldn't be controversial; the Fascist period would hardly be good for representing the Italians as a civilization when there's the Renaissance to draw from and another new system, the Great Works, which would tie into that. The Renaissance era would also neatly sidestep the Rome/Rome problem, which Fascist Italy would not. Overall, I would say Mussolini has a very slim, but non-zero, chance.

 

[Merciorum]

Stalin and Mao have both been in Civ more than once, and they were both far worse than Mussolini. True, neither is in Civ V, but I wouldn't go so far as to say Mussolini has "no chance". If they design Italy to go with the new Ideology system, he's the logical choice. I don't say it wouldn't be controversial; the Fascist period would hardly be good for representing the Italians as a civilization when there's the Renaissance to draw from and another new system, the Great Works, which would tie into that. The Renaissance era would also neatly sidestep the Rome/Rome problem, which Fascist Italy would not. Overall, I would say Mussolini has a very slim, but non-zero, chance.

He was the "bad guy", so he has no chance. He wasn't a particularly great leader; Cavour was much better, if they want a modern Italian one (which they probably won't). As well as the points you put forward above. Also, he is far, far too much of a controversial figure; he was an ally of Hitler and even though it was somewhat against his will, he still allowed the deportation of the Jews. He won't be put in.