BRICS wants to expand

[Joij21]

So by 2024-01-01 the new members will be officially onboard with BRICS. As a result of those 6 new members being added 80% of the world's oil production will be controlled by BRICS. If they demand payment in a currency other than the dollar, it's good night Irene to the dollar. And since BRICS intends to back it's currency with gold and the dollar is becoming increasingly worthless day by day as they print bills like no tomorrow it all is not going to end not well.

I mean we'll see, currencies today are more or less good as gold based solely on their respective nation's military might/prowess and capability of interventions of a violent or subversive manner.

So I would look more into the readiness and capabilities of the United States military if any abandonment is near, which if you know is having a recruiting problem with young people right now.

Putin's intervention into Ukraine may also have been to prop up his currency by giving the world a little show as to his nation's prowess. It didn't work well so far however, hence his currency devaluing but nonetheless he made a gamble and that is of course one of the downsides or risks to military confrontation. It may in fact expose weakness if an operation goes poorly and dispell any strategic ambiguity as to one's mightyness leading to such a devaluation.

China may be tempted doing the same, prove BRICS and the yuan it will be hinged on as mighty by showing Chinese overall mightyness by invading Taiwan shock and awe style. Russia though has shown the risks though to that notion, making it as of recently less likely but not improbable.

Brazil, India, and South Africa might perhaps also have to also spar with someone in order to really put the actual weight into a BRICS, to show prowess and capability to be a real antithesis to the current status quo and the status quo's temptation to intervene militarily or subversively of it's own against such an antithesis ala Thucydides Trap.

 

[Joij21]

No way are you saying this. America is at its apex. China, while catching up, will soon fall. They don’t have that good of an economic system (their state capitalism is not as good as America’s blend of socialism and capitalism)

I don't think America is at it's apex. Also America doesn't have socialism, those are just social programs or safety nets (which Europe has more of BTW), a big difference from real socialism (surprisingly is supposed to be syndicalism). It does have capitalism though, but so does China just in a state managed way. America's capitalism however is sort of like the reverse of China's whereby it's more like a state managed by Capitalism.

 

[Joij21]

In case anyone wants to know, America was at its "apex" in the 1990s. (At least it's most recent one, before that one the most recent one was right after WW2 but before all the Cold War interventions that caused great internal division among it's civil society)

You know after the Soviet Union collapsed and the world was monopolar as to who was the preeminent power. It was also before it's credibility among it's allies was trashed due to mismanagement of the war on terror and subprime mortgage crisis spilling uncontrollably out of it's own borders to financially hurt those same allies. And it was before China started to fill in the soft power gap worldwide that had been left vacant from the above mismanaged crises.

 

[Birdjaguar]

So by 2024-01-01 the new members will be officially onboard with BRICS. As a result of those 6 new members being added 80% of the world's oil production will be controlled by BRICS. If they demand payment in a currency other than the dollar, it's good night Irene to the dollar. And since BRICS intends to back it's currency with gold and the dollar is becoming increasingly worthless day by day as they print bills like no tomorrow it all is not going to end not well.

Which currency? Is it making up a new one or using one of its member's current currency?

 

[Nick723]

I think BRICS originally started off as countries vaguely disgruntled that they were not invited to be in the USA led Group 7/8 etc leaders summits etc.

The new BRICS + grouping would have much more economic heft than the G7. This is about a new world order

 

[amadeus]

I think it would be a gross overestimation to suggest at this point they pose a serious challenge; each member state has its own goals that run much more diametrically opposed to those of, say, the countries of the G6.

 

[Nick723]

True - but if they can get this club to work then the rules we are used to can change.

OPEC shows you don’t always need perfect alignment to wield great influence.

 

[Henri Christophe]

And what will the dollar be replaced with?

Yuan, the coin of China.

Tell that to the Uyghurs. China has been persecuting the Uyghurs and practically doing what the Nazis did to the Jews.

I don't think the comparasion with Uyghurs and Jews are fair, it is comparable what US are doing with Navajo or Lakotas.
Uyghur/Tibet deserve to be a country as Navajo/Lakota, but the way the states borns make theses nations Stateless.
And I don't think China will gave up territory if US don't do the same.

Which isn't even socialism but state managed capitalism.

Very a lot of difference between China and US. US are capitalist, China not so much.
For example, in China there is only one party, the comunist party, and all big company are from State.
So, it's wrong don't call China a socialistic country just because it don't follow now a days all things Sovietic Socialism made, they are unique, they follow the Chinese socialism.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Yuan, the coin of China.

China will go the gold standard for its currency?

 

[Verbose]

China will go the gold standard for its currency?

More importantly if this BRICS is going to get off the ground, like this China will just have to pay for everything. And seemingly they just inducted Argentina, so there's likely going to be a lot to pay for too. It's not hard to see the appeal for everyone, except maybe China – but otoh China is really the one that has been pushing for expansion. Let's see how this plays out...

 

[Akka]

If some countries want to join BRICS out of a desire to not be under the thumb of the USA, I wonder how they will feel and fare under the thumb of China once it asserts itself.

 

[Henri Christophe]

If some countries want to join BRICS out of a desire to not be under the thumb of the USA, I wonder how they will feel and fare under the thumb of China once it asserts itself.

I think China isn't as US who deamands the countries to behaviour democraticaly and capitalist way in order to receive loans.
No, China don't will demand such things and also accept payment in raw materials

 

[red_elk]

Nowadays BRICS are compound of Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa.
But in this week encounter on Johannesburg, on South Africa, they spoke about their desire to expand to enter countries as: Argentina, Iran, Arabia Saudita and Egypt.

I'm just wonder how will it be this sigle after theses inclusions.

Next summit will be in Kazan, Russia.
Looking forward to see all 11 members to meet there!

Next BRICS summit to be held in Kazan in 2024 - Putin

interfax.com

 

[Verbose]

I think China isn't as US who deamands the countries to behaviour democraticaly and capitalist way in order to receive loans.
No, China don't will demand such things and also accept payment in raw materials

You might be mixing up democracy and good governance here – or you might not be, there is a correlation through accountability, independent judiciaries, fighting corruption etc.

Otoh, obviously badly governed, corrupt autocracies also want cheap credit – and if China is fine with stumping up cash for that, then that's China's choice.

China spent $240bn on belt and road bailouts from 2008 to 2021, study finds

Rise in emergency financing for other countries since 2016 correlates with drop in infrastructure lending

www.theguardian.com

But since this really is about sourcing imports for China, the Chinese might well do precisely that in the end.

 

[Birdjaguar]

If the Yuan is going to replace the dollar, China needs to up its game considerably. BRICS+ may become a thing, but dethroning the dollar will be a tough road.

 

[Tee Kay]

The original BRIC concept sort of made sense. All four were, at the time, relatively large countries rising in both economic and international diplomatic/military power, and their domestic politics were, if not democratic, then at least more or less stable. The United States went a bit rogue in 2003 and these countries were stepping up and saying in effect: we'll help uphold the international order when the global policeman had a little bit too much to drink.

Only India kept this original vibe. Of the rest, China became much more belligerent while its economy slowed down, Brazil wasted a decade with their political shenanigans, and Russia went completely off the rails. The differing foreign policy interests between them have become more apparent and serious, especially between China and India.

South Africa was the clear odd one out when they joined, having a much smaller population than the other four, no serious international presence outside of their corner of the continent, and an economy that was barely functioning. Adding these six new countries makes the BRICS concept completely pointless except as an additional excuse for countries' leaders to meet one additional time a year and for journalists to use AI to write increasingly poor-quality articles about.

 

[Crezth]

The original BRIC concept sort of made sense. All four were, at the time, relatively large countries rising in both economic and international diplomatic/military power, and their domestic politics were, if not democratic, then at least more or less stable. The United States went a bit rogue in 2003 and these countries were stepping up and saying in effect: we'll help uphold the international order when the global policeman had a little bit too much to drink.

Only India kept this original vibe. Of the rest, China became much more belligerent while its economy slowed down, Brazil wasted a decade with their political shenanigans, and Russia went completely off the rails. The differing foreign policy interests between them have become more apparent and serious, especially between China and India.

South Africa was the clear odd one out when they joined, having a much smaller population than the other four, no serious international presence outside of their corner of the continent, and an economy that was barely functioning. Adding these six new countries makes the BRICS concept completely pointless except as an additional excuse for countries' leaders to meet one additional time a year and for journalists to use AI to write increasingly poor-quality articles about.

Oh, no, there's still very much a conflict between the political unity ideals of BRICS and the US-led world order. It's adorable that you describe it as "we'll keep order when the global policeman had too much to drink." The global policeman does sometimes kill 2 million Iraqis and annihilate a nation and spread chaos and destruction throughout the middle east while supporting an increasingly extremist and genocidal state in Israel. Hey maybe that's why Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt joined?

 

[Tee Kay]

Saudi Arabia is a responsible country that would never spread chaos and destruction throughout the Middle East

 

[Akka]

Saudi Arabia is a responsible country that would never spread chaos and destruction throughout the Middle East

Also, Russia and China would never think about genocide or invasion. They're far too much better than the Evil West for that.

 

[Tee Kay]

No, you see, they are not hypocritical like America. They would never invade a country and say they're doing it to protect ethnic minorities or to destroy political extremists.