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[BtS] DIPLOMACY: a mod for Diplogames!

Updated some diplotext.
 

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MadmanOfALeader said:
Updated some diplotext.
Click to expand...

I'll probably make those changes later on, like when I put in new diplomacy music for some leaders (I am not going to get to that before the next playtest), the most important thing right now is testing the leader personalities. Once I finish the leaders I'm going to look into getting the Inquisitors in, which brings up another issue: how Inquisitors will work. If you remember or even played my last mod, you will know that the Inquisitors required Theology, and a Cathedral in the city you wished to build it in, and you could only build a missionary under the Paganism, Organized Religion, or Theocracy civics (although you could build them without a Cathedral under a Theocracy). These inquisitors pruged all non-state religions and non-state religious buildings from a city that you owned or from a city of a vassal provided that your state religion was present. There was no negative effect (no health penalty or unhappiness penalty) and you gained nothing else out of purging (you gained no gold or happiness for example). You will have also remembered that there was, technically speaking, an inquisitor for each religion (although there was no difference in the graphic or actions, just the name). This is most likely going to change.

OrionVeteran has upgraded his mod quite a bit since the original Diplomacy mod came out, you can check out his updated version RIGHT HERE. More likely than not I am either going to use this version or an older version but I wanted to get ideas from everyone else and I have a few questions that I really need answered because I need to get this playtest finished within the next couple of days so I can send the playtest to the ModCast guys. So please help me out here. Here goes:

1) In OrionVeteran's mod there are four different game options; Limited religions (no civ can found more than one religion), Foreign Inquisitions (you may conduct inquisitions in other civs that have your same religion, but do not have to be vassals), prevent inquisitors from purging a Holy City (self-explanatory), Respawn a Holy City that was purged or razed (again self-explanatory). Do we want all of these rules involved or not? They are optional by the way.

2) He has a religions victory with the following requirements; the player must have an official state religion (so no Free Religion for example), the player must also own the Holy City for their state religion, every city the player owns must have the official state religion, all of a player's cities must not have any non-state religions present (although there appears to be some exception to this that I haven't checked out yet), the religion's influence must be at least 80%, the player must have built the official state religion's shrine. Is this okay with everyone?

3) There does not appear to be any rules about civics, although I doubt that is the case. In my mod you could absolutely not build inquisitors under the Free Religion or Pacifism civics. And you could build inquisitors without a cathedral under a Theocracy. Should we make the same rule for this, if we decide to use it as-is, except you could build an inquisitor under a Theocracy without a Holy Office?

I would like to get this settled as soon as possible, so if you visit this thread and don't comment a lot (and I know you exist because you guys have PMed me and told me you do that) this would be the time to start commenting. I basically have to get this next playtest done in the next three or four days so I can send it to the ModCast people to check out, plus I gotta get it out to the playtesters and now more than ever I need some help and advice. I'd rather just use the old Inquisitors I had but I no longer have the same help I had last time (I had someone helping me with code, and now they have disappeared) and I am not sure that my old code is 3.19 compatible. So let's figure this out.

And Madman you can remove that attachment, I DLed it already. :goodjob:
 
I probably won't. Some people may need my diplotext.
 
I think the way he has it. The Inquisitors can be built in a Cathedral, but under Theocracy, you don't need one.

And Inquisitors certainly should not be built under Pacifism and Free Religion. It wouldn't make sense.
 
MadmanOfALeader said:
I think the way he has it. The Inquisitors can be built in a Cathedral, but under Theocracy, you don't need one.

And Inquisitors certainly should not be built under Pacifism and Free Religion. It wouldn't make sense.
Click to expand...

I think you are a little confused; he has it where you need to build a Holy Office (new building) not a Cathedral, and you still have to build the Holy Office under a Theocracy as far as I know.
 
It's not only for Capo's mod... there's also things for Civ Gold I never got around to. It isn't really complete, though.

I made a Pizza Hut joke. That was funny.

Kruger's text isn't done, either. I've made some improvements to what you're using.
 
Inquisition thoughts:

1) Limited Religions off by default. Sounds like an interesting idea when there are only 7 religions available but since you are adding lots of new religions this only serves to limit them being founded even further. Some way of making number of religions possible scale with number of civs on a map would be brilliant. I know there used to be a mod component that made religions be founded by Great Prophets rather than the tech tree.

Foreign inquistions sound fun, I vote for enabled. Would make players more likely to use inquisitiors but that raises the question of how well the AI for this is handled. Might it give players an unnecessary advantage?

I think purging a holy city is a bit too brutal and unfeasible. I'd suggest disabled.


2) Religious victory looks interesting and there can't be any harm in adding it in.

3) I think requiring a Holy Office to build Inquisitors is important and from what I read from that thread, necessary for balance. Your comments about civics make sense.
 
MadmanOfALeader said:
It's not only for Capo's mod... there's also things for Civ Gold I never got around to. It isn't really complete, though.

I made a Pizza Hut joke. That was funny.

Kruger's text isn't done, either. I've made some improvements to what you're using.
Click to expand...

I'll PM you my version of Gorbachev diplotext when I'll find the time to write them.
 
Xyth said:
Inquisition thoughts:

1) Limited Religions off by default. Sounds like an interesting idea when there are only 7 religions available but since you are adding lots of new religions this only serves to limit them being founded even further. Some way of making number of religions possible scale with number of civs on a map would be brilliant. I know there used to be a mod component that made religions be founded by Great Prophets rather than the tech tree.

Foreign inquistions sound fun, I vote for enabled. Would make players more likely to use inquisitiors but that raises the question of how well the AI for this is handled. Might it give players an unnecessary advantage?

I think purging a holy city is a bit too brutal and unfeasible. I'd suggest disabled.


2) Religious victory looks interesting and there can't be any harm in adding it in.

3) I think requiring a Holy Office to build Inquisitors is important and from what I read from that thread, necessary for balance. Your comments about civics make sense.
Click to expand...

Great feedback, the only respnose I have is to your first point. Only seven religions can be founded in my mod, there is a limit to the amount founded and you only get the extra religions when you select the choose religion option.
 
The Capo said:
Great feedback, the only respnose I have is to your first point. Only seven religions can be founded in my mod, there is a limit to the amount founded and you only get the extra religions when you select the choose religion option.
Click to expand...

Ahh okay. In that case I think Limited Religions enabled would be good. Holy cities and shrines are quite powerful and it's all too easy for a player to have most of them, especially on easier difficulties. Once you get a tech advantage you tend to keep it and I always though that was a bit much when it applies to religions as well.

I think it could create an interesting dynamic where some players want to have religions spread to their cities for the happiness and cultural benefits, while others will actively trying to purge them with inquisitors for a religious victory. How would open/closed borders affect missionaries and inquisitors? It's possible that Foreign inquisitions could be too powerful if Limited Religions is enabled, worth testing.

If they can be balanced though I can see stacks of knights and inquisitors marching into enemy territory Crusades style.
 
Xyth said:
Ahh okay. In that case I think Limited Religions enabled would be good. Holy cities and shrines are quite powerful and it's all too easy for a player to have most of them, especially on easier difficulties. Once you get a tech advantage you tend to keep it and I always though that was a bit much when it applies to religions as well.

I think it could create an interesting dynamic where some players want to have religions spread to their cities for the happiness and cultural benefits, while others will actively trying to purge them with inquisitors for a religious victory. How would open/closed borders affect missionaries and inquisitors? It's possible that Foreign inquisitions could be too powerful if Limited Religions is enabled, worth testing.

If they can be balanced though I can see stacks of knights and inquisitors marching into enemy territory Crusades style.
Click to expand...

Well, the only experience I really have with inquisitors was in my old mod and the AI definitely used them. In fact they seemed to keep a group of inquisitors ready to go at all times (I remember when game when Mandela had three sitting around when I attacked him, with no foreign religions to purge). I think there were a few bugs though but OrionVeteran says his new version fixes them. I think my mod is going to have Foreign Inquisition turned off, and limited religions turned off, purge Holy city turned off, and holy city respawned turned off (so everything off except for the regular settings). I need to make sure that you can conduct inquisitions in your vassals' territories considering they fulfill the other requirements (the right civic, and same state religion).

On a positive note I have all of the new leaders in, so once I get this inquisitor thing figured out (which is why I want some type of agreement on this) I can start sending out the new playtest.
 
Yes, thank you Igor, Thailand/Siam will be part of the mod in modular format. So don't worry, I just don't want to overload the initial mod with new civs and I wanted a level of quality that doesn't exist with a Thai civ at this point. Bakuel made some really great Vietnamese units, Ekmek made an awesome Trung Sisters LH (and there was already an awesome Ho Chi Minh out there), and I also have some Vietnamese order/select sounds so it was a no-brainer. Don't get me wrong, the Thailand mod will be a really good module too, its just that Vietnam had beetter material available.
 
PLAYTESTERS NEEDED!!!​

Hey everyone, I still only have four playtesters signed up for the second playtest and I really need playtesters because there are a lot of leaders we need to try out and we have to make sure the new inquisitor function is working properly. So if you play civ anyway why not try out this playtest? You will have fun and help out a modder at the same time! :goodjob:

Since I am posting this in my mod's thread as well as in the main C&C forum I will explain what changes have taken place in the mod and what changes are planned. So far the following changes have been made:
  • Four new civs have been added: Israel, Iroquois, Polynesia and Vietnam
  • Three civs have changed their names; Native Americans = Sioux, HRE = Franks, Ottomans = Turkey
  • Better graphics including new flags and colors, terrain graphics, flavored units and city-styles
  • Over fifty new leaders
  • Inquisitors to purge unwanted religions from your cities
  • New religions: Anunnaki (mesopotamian), Levantine Mythology (carthage, phoenicia), Druidic Traditions, Shamanism, Shinto, Zoroastrianism, Norse Mythology, Olympic Pantheon, Voodoo, Amun-Ra (Egypt)
  • Next War


That is what has been done so far. This is what will be added to the mod for its final version:
  • Advanced "Barbarian Civs": Sea People (ancient), the Horde (Medieval), Pirates (Renaissance/Industrial)
  • Barbarian civs can spawn into real civilizations
  • Expanded future era
  • A few new wonders from old civ games
  • Terraforming
  • Capture slaves under the slavery civic
  • Spy promotions
  • AND MORE! (probably)


The reason I need playtesters, as it has already been proven, is that since I am the creator of the mod I will sometimes miss things for various reasons (I made a lot of the stuff in it, so much like a mother, it is difficult for me to see fault in my work and when doing so many things at once it is easy to miss something). This mod also contains a lot of original art that you can not get anywhere else and has a high degree of quality control. Many of the LHs are simply place-holders and will be replaced with new leaders that I will create.

To playtest this mod please PM me, that is how I keep track of my playtesters. As a playtester you will need to give me reports on any bugs as well as your own personal suggestions, a detailed list of instructions will be sent to each playtester.

There are only three playtesting spots left, so please PM me as soon as you can if you are interested!
 
IgorS said:
Capo, do the newly added religions work? I mean, do they also have all the graphics, sounds, movies and all?
Click to expand...

For the most part I would say yes. There are only a few problems but they aren't a big deal and should be easy to fix:
  • I have to update the Anunnaki/Mesopotamian buildings
  • They don't have their final names yet, but that isn't important right now
  • The Norse missionary's spread religion effect (shining symbol) doesn't work
  • The "you have built x shrine" pop-ups haven't been made for the Levant or Mesopotamian religions yet

Other than those small things, which I could probably fix pretty easily, they are ready to go. I'd rather get the gameplay stuff down for the playtest than finish the simple graphic bugs. So they are serviceable if that is what you mean, but not perfected just yet.

EDIT: If I didn't list something you can assume it is done and working perfectly.
 
Speaking of religions, the inquisitor is looking a bit more difficult to enable than I thought it would be. I wanted to get the next playtest out tomorrow but that might not be possible. I wanted to get the playtest out for two reasons, the first was so that I could start working on leaderheads, but if the inquisitors and spies are going to be more difficult to get in than I thought it will probably result in a huge delay. I'd rather get those issues resolved before starting on the leaderheads. So there is potential for a big delay in the mod (by big I mean I might have to add another few weeks to a month to its development). My first attempt to merge the inquisitor mod was a horrible failure. Although I didn't really do it very carefully. Hopefully I can get this figured out soon but I have strong doubts I can accomplish this by tomorrow night. The second reason I wanted to get the playtest out was to give the guys at ModCast something to work with for their show. They invited me on and wanted me to talk about the mod, but I don't have anything to show them really. This thread is way too long to read and keep up with, and the old mod isn't even up anymore so I wanted to send them a playtest so they could at least try it out for a few days.

Which leads me to this; what should I do? Should I release it tomorrow no matter what (i.e. without inquisitors), or should I delay it in order to get the inquisitors in first?

The reason for putting it out would be to give the ModCast guys something to work with, and I guess to test out the new religions, leaders and city-styles. It would put me behind scedule and I really wanted to get the inquisitors in before the next playtest but that might not happen. So I'll let you guys decide: Playtest tomorrow without inquisitors or should I delay the playtest?
 
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