[BtS MOD] Wolfshanze 1850-1920 Enhancement Mod v2.0

[arstal]

I didn't know what caused the CTD, that's why I sent to you.

I guess I"ll just chalk it up to something screwy.

 

[Wolfshanze]

I didn't know what caused the CTD, that's why I sent to you.

I guess I"ll just chalk it up to something screwy.

Well you didn't explain anything, so I had nothing to go off-of... I know if you're doing too much (multi-tasking) or reloading saves on top of saves from in-game, sometimes you can get a CTD... usually just reloading the save from the main-menu will get you a stable load.

I'm pretty confident the 2.3 version is as stable as the base-game... I don't do mass changes and assume they all went well... I pretty much do one change at a time and check it for stability (time consuming, but worth it)... which is why I'm shocked the African Chariot got through... still trying to figure out how I missed that one.

I feel confident there should be no CTD problems with the mod. If it does CTD, it's probably something screwy with a corrupted save file or some other oddity on the system or base game-end. I check each and every graphic change to ensure it took... I take nothing for granted when I make mod changes.

 

[mamba]

Historically speaking, the Holy Roman Empire became the Austrian Empire during the Napoleonic Wars and the Austrian Empire in-turn became Austria-Hungary later in the 19th century. All three names (more-or-less) refer to the same empire.

Geographically speaking there is a big difference between HRE and the Austrian(-Hungary) Empire. HRE includes all of Germany (as well as Switzerland and Belgium, then called the spanish Netherlands) in addition to Austria, most of which never were part of the Austrian Empire.

HRE became the Austrian Empire in the sense that the german part of HRE was conquered by France in the Napoleon Wars (Switzerland was independent by then), whereas the austrian part was not. Also the rulers stayed the same as the Habsburg monarchy ruled the austrian part of HRE (in addition to being kings of HRE), which turned into the Austrian Empire after most of HRE had been conquered by France.

I wouldn't go as far as call all three (more or less) the same empire, that would be like calling the Roman and Byzantine empire (more or less) the same empire.

 

[Wolfshanze]

HRE became the Austrian Empire in the sense that the german part of HRE was conquered by France in the Napoleon Wars (Switzerland was independent by then), whereas the austrian part was not. Also the rulers stayed the same as the Habsburg monarchy ruled the austrian part of HRE (in addition to being kings of HRE), which turned into the Austrian Empire after most of HRE had been conquered by France.

I wouldn't go as far as call all three (more or less) the same empire, that would be like calling the Roman and Byzantine empire (more or less) the same empire.

So let me get this straight... a chunk of the HRE in Austria which was never conquered, and the same ruling family (and same emperor for that matter) did a legal name change from HRE to Austrian Empire and it's not (more or less) the same empire?

The Byzantine Empire WAS the Eastern Roman Empire... the same Emperor just did a legal name-change, but it included the exact same lands as the Eastern Roman Empire...

So the Eastern Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire are not (more or less) the same?

Both the HRE and Austrian Empire, and the ERE and Byzantine Empire included the same lands & same rulers, and just did a pen and ink change to their name... and they're not (more or less) the same empires?

So my wife... who is still the same person I married, and has the same body (more or less), but did a legal name change is not (more or less) the same person I dated?

You need to back-off on your definition of "more or less" and be a little less demanding on exactness. In my opinion, there's not a huge differance in any of these cases... they may have evolved differantly over time, but the origins of all cases are the same in relation to one-another. Heck, the Roman Republic is more differant to the Roman Empire then any of the cases listed above... but I'd bet you'd call them more or less the same in Civ4.

You have an opinion, but I certainly don't agree with it. From what I see and know, the HRE is (more or less) the same as the Austrian Empire... just a differant year with a differant name.

I also did mention "more or less"... I never said they were exactly the same.

 

[mamba]

So the Eastern Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire are not (more or less) the same?

Those are the same, I did not say Eastern Roman Empire though, the Eastern Roman Empire and the Roman Empire are not the same imo. The Eastern is the remnants of it, but not the same as the entire Roman Empire. Much like Austria is the remnants of HRE (which is why I made this comparison in the first place).

The Austrian Empire (i.e. the lands ruled by Habsburg) even existed as an Empire within HRE and with the other parts of HRE fought against Napoleon (which resulted in those parts being conquered and the dissolution of HRE by the austrian king who was also ruler of HRE - to prevent Napoleon as successor (as the ruler of HRE was elected from the rulers of the various parts of the HRE, most of which now belonged to Napoleon)).

You have an opinion, but I certainly don't agree with it. From what I see and know, the HRE is (more or less) the same as the Austrian Empire... just a differant year with a differant name.

And a different location (in that it misses about 2/3s of HRE). To me it is the remnants of HRE, but not the same as HRE.

Maybe that is what you meant with "more or less", but to me this is a lot closer to "less" than to "more".

 

[Wolfshanze]

Maybe that is what you meant with "more or less", but to me this is a lot closer to "less" than to "more".

Eh... differance of opinion...

I put the "more or less" in there as a disclaimer to say that they weren't EXACTLY IDENTICAL so nobody would nit-pick.

Guess the "more or less" didn't work... oh well... I didn't change the whole mod to this, just one scenario where I put the HRE/Austrian Empire as starting in geographic Austria... hence the change.

 

[mamba]

I am not objecting to replacing HRE with Austria in CIV, I just objected to considering them being the same, maybe it makes a difference to me as I am from Germany whereas you are from the US (I assume).

To me that is like saying Texas and the US are more or less the same as the same person was governor of one and president of the other (not at the same time though, that is where the analogy falls apart) and because Texas is part of the US (admittedly a smaller one than Austria was of HRE)

 

[Wolfshanze]

I am not objecting to replacing HRE with Austria in CIV, I just objected to considering them being the same, maybe it makes a difference to me as I am from Germany whereas you are from the US (I assume).

To me that is like saying Texas and the US are more or less the same as the same person was governor of one and president of the other (not at the same time though, that is where the analogy falls apart) and because Texas is part of the US (admittedly a smaller one than Austria was of HRE)

I don't agree with the comparison... nor the fact that I'm an American and your a German have anything to do with this (for the record, I love European history and Geography and am quite comfortable with my knowledge of the HRE, Germany and Austria... oh, and I lived in Germany for five years to boot and speak some rather poor German)... this is really more a matter of what you and I consider the differance between the term "more or less".

If you want a good comparison (not that bad Texas/America thing), let's do it this way...

Let's say I, Wolfshanze, am the President of America... and you're the Chancellor of Germany.

You invade me and take over almost half of the United States and say America is no-more.

I take my remaining states of America and declare it "The Empire of Wolfshanze"... as I'm still the ruler of what is left.

America... Empire of Wolfshanze... same thing (more or less).

 

[mamba]

I agree, the Texas / US comparison wasn't good, but imo neither was yours.

Mine wasn't because the difference between Texas and the US is bigger than between Austria and HRE, yours isn't (imo) because you ignore the fact that the ruler of Austria and the ruler of HRE are two titles which could very well belong to two persons (Austrian kings also ruled HRE frequently because they ruled Austria, the largest entity within the HRE).

So a better comparison would be if you were the chancelor of Germany and also the leader of the European Community and the EC were attacked, resulting in most of it being conquered while for some reason Germany was still unconquered and you then made peace with the attacker and dissolved the EC (which at that point in time had ceased to exist anyway) while remaining chancelor of Germany.

My main objection is that Austria and the HRE are two entities, both ruled by a king, with the king of one (through heritage) also happening to be the king of the other (through election). So Austria is not the successor of as much as part of the HRE. They just happened to be ruled by the same person and Austria (part of the HRE) happened to survive the attack by Napoleon, who conquered the rest of the HRE, thereby ending the HRE.

In any case, imo this discussion has gone on long enough, I guess we agree to disagree, maybe it truly is about how similar things need to be in order to be "more or less" the same.

 

[Wolfshanze]

In any case, imo this discussion has gone on long enough, I guess we agree to disagree, maybe it truly is about how similar things need to be in order to be "more or less" the same.

Cool... now I'm Chancellor of Germany...

Oh well... I do agree that it's gone on long enough (thread-jacking alert!).

Anyways, we disagree... cool by me. Nothing wrong with that.

Now everyone download the Wolfshanze Mod... and while you're at it, play the 34-Civ Earth scenario and determine if having the Austrian Empire in the scenario is more or less the same as having the HRE! (just kidding).

 

[Monty Python Ni]

Kinda noobish question (sorry, never downloaded a mod before, considering making this my first )

Will the Germans always have the swastica, or only when playing as Hitler?

 

[Wolfshanze]

Kinda noobish question (sorry, never downloaded a mod before, considering making this my first )

Will the Germans always have the swastica, or only when playing as Hitler?

As it stands right now, the Germans always have it... but it's easy to switch back to the original Maltese Cross... if anyone doesn't like the swastika, I can either instruct how to fix it, or offer a "Maltese Cross" patch... it's a simple one-line notepad fix.

Speaking of which... I wonder if I could make it leader specific? I think the flag is tied to the nation, not the leader though.

 

[Merum]

So I was getting a recurring crash with an earlier version, and decided to download the update to see if it resolved the issue... now I get a runtime error each time I load up the save. I'm assuming saves from earlier versions are not compatible?

Also, I was pondering the flag issue while testing up loading the mod without the save (it seems to work OK)...

I'm wondering if it makes sense to clone the German civ into a new civ: "Nazi Germany", with Hitler as leader. The reasoning behind this is that I don't think the "Regular" German empire would have Waffen SS for a unique unit. Panzers, maybe... but not SS. That, IMO, is a uniquely Nazi construct.

BTW< thanks for the great mod.

 

[Wolfshanze]

So I was getting a recurring crash with an earlier version, and decided to download the update to see if it resolved the issue... now I get a runtime error each time I load up the save. I'm assuming saves from earlier versions are not compatible?

If there's an issue between versions and save files, it's possible to be due to the inclusion of Lt Bob's 40-civ patch (dll).

If you really want to see if an old save will work with the new version and/or you're not interested in using 40-civ maps, simply remove the CvGameCoreDLL.dll from the Wolfshanze Mod assetts folder... it's NOT required to use the mod (only to use the included 40-civ Earth maps). That way you can see if your old save(s) will work.***

Also, I was pondering the flag issue while testing up loading the mod without the save (it seems to work OK)...

I'm wondering if it makes sense to clone the German civ into a new civ: "Nazi Germany", with Hitler as leader. The reasoning behind this is that I don't think the "Regular" German empire would have Waffen SS for a unique unit. Panzers, maybe... but not SS. That, IMO, is a uniquely Nazi construct.

The only problem with that, you could (in theory) have Germany vs Nazi Germany in a random Civ game. That would be a little weird (two Germanys?).

Nobody has really said much about the flag issue, but if it really bugs people, it's a very simple fix.

1) Go into the Wolfshanze Mod Assets/XML/Art folder...
2) Find the "Civ4ArtDefines_Civilization.xml" file.
3) Open in Notepad.
4) Find "ART_DEF_CIVILIZATION_GERMANY"
5) Change this:
<Path>Art/Interface/TeamColor/FlagDECAL_nazi.dds</Path>
to this:
<Path>Art/Interface/TeamColor/FlagDECAL_MalteseCross.dds</Path>

It's that simple to get the cross back if the swastika bothers anybody.

On the Waffen SS issue... one has to remember the Waffen SS should not be confused with the "Death Camp" SS... two very differant groups of people. Waffen SS was the military arm of the SS and (for the most part) stuck to combat, not crazy stuff... heck, by the end of the war, the Waffen SS was taking in all kinds of ethnic groups that were non-German or even non-Nordic... Turks, Slavs, French, you name it... just about every nationallity ended-up in the Waffen SS by war's end.

Having said that, I replaced the Marine Unit with the Waffen SS unit... frankly I didn't see Germany having much a need for "Marines"... dunno.

Anyways... to make a long story short (too late)... THIS IS A GAME MOD... THE PURPOSE OF WHICH IS TO HAVE FUN WITH... IT'S NOT A POLITICAL STATEMENT OF ANY SORT... IT'S 'JUST A MOD'. Heck, the primary purpose is not to mess with Germany, but to add those missing naval units!

BTW< thanks for the great mod.

Well... glad somebody likes it!





***NOTE:
As an afterthought, this method might not work... removing LtBob's DLL might cause another problem, as an XML file was altered for the change in Global Warming (from desert to nuke fallout), as this was another feature added, by use of the new DLL file which required a change in the XML.

 

[Merum]

I don't care about the historical accuracy of the game... I was only providing a rationalization for the "Two Germany Fix". I really don't give a hoot about the flag, either.

Also, in the "Funny you mention that" category... this happened about 10 minutes after I first made this post...

Go figure! He popped up as vassal to Charlemagne, so he's most likely a colonial governor.

...Would be nice to see Mussolini appear some day, you know, to complete the whole Axis thing...

 

[arstal]

Hope you don't get annoyed by my pestering, but I found another mod thing that I think would be fun to include- Dale's air missions mod. Gives some new air missions that I think would be realistic.

I know you're thinking of improving the air side of things, so I'd figured I'd give you a heads-up and see if it could be combined with your mod. If I could do it myself I would, but couldn't off the top of my head, and too much partying the last two days to think ^_^

 

[Wolfshanze]

I'll take a peek Arstal... no garauntees, and no you're not pestering... any feedback that's remotely constructive is welcome, and yours are always constructive.

I may not always agree, but I do always consider your input.

 

[PimpyMicPimp]

I enjoy this mod, it's a lot of fun for water maps! It would be really nice if I could play this mod on a real earth map. I just think that would be really cool. Maybe it is easily done, and I could be missing something really obvious, but so far the only option I've seen is for an earthlike map, not the 30 Civ Real Earth I have envisioned.

 

[dutchking]

This seems like a cool mod, but there is just one thing that really, I mean really turns me off about it. I don't care about Hitler being in the thing, but why did you have to replace the Iron Cross with that Crooked Symbol of Hatred? I mean it seems absurd to have Bismarck, Fredrick or just Germany in general represented by that. Just trying to make your life harder!
-DK

 

[Wolfshanze]

I enjoy this mod, it's a lot of fun for water maps! It would be really nice if I could play this mod on a real earth map. I just think that would be really cool. Maybe it is easily done, and I could be missing something really obvious, but so far the only option I've seen is for an earthlike map, not the 30 Civ Real Earth I have envisioned.

There IS a World/Earth map INCLUDED with this mod (34 & 33 Civs)... just go to the "SINGLE PLAYER GAME" and choose "SCENARIO"... you'll see several earth maps listed... choose one.

Of course with random games, you can make water-world maps too... to get full-use out of the naval additions to the mod.

This seems like a cool mod, but there is just one thing that really, I mean really turns me off about it. I don't care about Hitler being in the thing, but why did you have to replace the Iron Cross with that Crooked Symbol of Hatred? I mean it seems absurd to have Bismarck, Fredrick or just Germany in general represented by that. Just trying to make your life harder!
-DK

DK... The swastika is like the Force Tree from Star Wars... it means whatever you make it mean. It's a symbol of peace and love long before the Nazis came... it's the recognized state flag of Germany from 1933 to 1945... nothing more. I'm not one for political correctness... white-washing history is something you'll get from others not me... having said that, I did base this mod (started-off with) a Hitler Mod which included the flag... I never bothered to switch it out, since frankly the flag has never meant anything more to me then a flag from German history... that's the only credence I give it. I'm not into symbolism... things are what things are. Flags don't kill people, people kill people... I'm not going to shift the blame for the 3rd Reich's crimes from people in power to a piece of cloth.

If the flag really bugs people, it's a very simple fix.

1) Go into the Wolfshanze Mod Assets/XML/Art folder...
2) Find the "Civ4ArtDefines_Civilization.xml" file.
3) Open in Notepad.
4) Find "ART_DEF_CIVILIZATION_GERMANY"
5) Change this:
<Path>Art/Interface/TeamColor/FlagDECAL_nazi.dds</Path>
to this:
<Path>Art/Interface/TeamColor/FlagDECAL_MalteseCross.dds</Path>

It's that simple to get the cross back if the swastika bothers anybody. I may do something differant flag-wise in a later version?!?!?!? But the above is the fix for now, and it's not hard to do. The best argument that exists for it's removal (at least as far as I'm concerned) would be length of use, not meaning... because to me, it's just a stupid flag. I don't get all worked up over a flag. Frankly, I wish there was a way to assign certain flags to certain leaders... that would make the most sense.