[BTS]TF-1 All Praise the Mahatma Day!

[kolokol]

I think we agree on the issue of war, I like the rule of only one vassal

I think we should do the Hindu thing since it will make the game a lot more difficult. Remember you can do alot with espionage to influence civics and religion. A bigger problem would be wars breakin out right and left giving us negative diplo for refusing to engage.

I had a look at a tectonics/mediteranian map (i think i've played it once) it looks fun kinda like inland sea so I would be good with this

I too know hidden modifiers... was planning to post them once we know who the AI's are. Definantly random leaders otherwise it would be too easy

I use BUG mod 3.6 but I dont think this affects the save so no need for all to be running the same - but i could be mistaken.

Does this cover the current questions on the table? i think so

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

2. Wars, are we going as peaceful as possible (APAP?) or are we allowing wars?
Wars are fun

Agree.

3. If we allow wars, do we want any controls to limit "dilpomation" (I like that term)?
Just play it by ear I think. Maybe a maximum of one vassal?

I like that.

I too know hidden modifiers... was planning to post them once we know who the AI's are. Definantly random leaders otherwise it would be too easy

Great! I think that bringing the information as we meet the leaders will be most useful!

I use BUG mod 3.6 but I dont think this affects the save so no need for all to be running the same - but i could be mistaken.

AFAIK, BUG will only affect the saves when you have it installed as a standalone mod.

When do we start?

 

[v8_mark]

Shall I roll some starts? We can always add a fifth player when the game is underway.

We haven't really decided on a map script yet, so I might roll two Fractal and two Tectonics? We can see which individual maps we like.

 

[TurdFerguson]

Yeah v8, give'r.

I think we are ready to get this thing rolling.

 

[v8_mark]

Here we go...

Start A (Tectonics/Normal aridity):

Start B (Tectonics/Wet aridity):

Start C (Fractal/Random climate/Random sea level):

Start D (Fractal/Temperate/Medium):

 

[v8_mark]

My comments:

Start A is a typical tectonics start, with two marginal plains cows and the rest plains. Almost unplayable IMO.

Start B is a bit better but I think we're one tile from the coast (although there's no way to tell whether it's a lake or coast to the SW, as all the tiles on the coast have fresh water anyway).

Start C has a food resource somewhere, it's just a question of where

Start D is the nicest of them by a long way; lacking a little bit of production in the capital, but two good food resources and some nice riverside grassland for either cottages or farms.

D is obviously the easiest to play, but do we want to go with Fractal? From what I remember, A and B are fairly typical Tectonic starts...so at least the AI would have the same sort of thing.

 

[kolokol]

My two cents:

D: easily playable and the safest bet food for and some riverside

C: looks boring to me

B: where's the food... if there is a food source it would be great. I like that almost every tile is riverside

A: seems tough

I vote B

 

[v8_mark]

B is a fairly typical marginal plains cow start, and if there was another food resource I'd be surprised. We're going to end up having to farm almost all of those grassland riverside tiles, I think...

 

[TurdFerguson]

I like B too. Since it is Wet aridity I imagine the AI's will have similarly river'd starts.

 

[v8_mark]

Where would we settle if we went with start B (which it looks like we will)? 1S I imagine, for coastal and more grassland.

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

Where would we settle if we went with start B (which it looks like we will)? 1S I imagine, for coastal and more grassland.

I'd move the warrior 1NW to see if we wouldn't be losing food. If there's nothing 1S makes sense.

 

[kolokol]

I'd move the warrior 1NW to see if we wouldn't be losing food. If there's nothing 1S makes sense.

I was thinking 1SE on Ivory (I think coastal is a bit overrated as long as you still have freshwater)

 

[v8_mark]

Here we go then, my first turns ever in an SG. I'm afraid they weren't stunning, although the decision of 1S proved to be a good one.

First things first, the start. I decided to waste a turn moving, as I really wasn't happy about starting one tile from the coast. That proved to be a great move:

So we were off and running - research was set to Polytheism, as we'd already committed to Hinduism whatever happened.

A decent early hut result:

...and another!

We met this guy...

and he's close. I'll show you how close in a bit. Meanwhile, it was nailbiting time, as we waited to see if we'd got Hinduism in time. I hit F7 a turn before we completed it in anticipation of a message, but nothing was forthcoming, and so...

Research set to Hunting and AH; worker techs.

Our lion-tamer continued to impress...

...and we got a message of another, heathen religion founded elsewhere:

I played to turn 39, as nothing much happens in the early turns, and this is a decent stopping point as we churned this guy out:

This leaves us some solid decisions to make - including which cities to settle next. We have a couple of very promising commerce spots, but production, unusually for tectonics, is a little thin on the ground:

I feel a little like I was a bit behind - not having Bronze Working or any worker techs early on is difficult I think, but that's the price you pay for going religion. Having said that, we now have a base happy cap of 6 - 7 if we can get to the gold.

After AH, we should go Bronze Working IMO.

Here's the save:

 

[v8_mark]

Roster:
v8 mark <--- played
TurdFerguson <--- up
kolokol <--- on deck
Ignorant Teacher

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

Meanwhile, it was nailbiting time, as we waited to see if we'd got Hinduism in time. I hit F7 a turn before we completed it in anticipation of a message, but nothing was forthcoming, and so...

Spoiler :

Well, the Hinduism problem is solved.

After AH, we should go Bronze Working IMO.

Unless we find horses, in which case I think we should go to the Wheel and chariot rush Stalin. He's too close and he's just a little better as a neighbor than Tokugawa.

 

[TurdFerguson]

Got it. Will play in either 14 hrs or 26 hrs.

 

[v8_mark]

What about city sites? I'm thinking we're unlikely to beat cuddly Joe to the second city, and might struggle to beat him to the third as well thanks to our early religion grab. 2E of the marble would give us decent short-term production, and that's probably the aim for the time being; there aren't too many other city sites that give us any production at all, apart from maybe 2E1S of the clams to the northwest. Alternatively we could get the gold instead of the marble.

There are lots of nice commerce cities to the south as well - I guess we'd settle one amongst the sugar to the SE (if we got there in time), one in the sugar to the south, and one on the tip of the peninsula to get the fish, which could be a decent GP farm.

 

[TurdFerguson]

So, how to we feel about a chariot rush? He is awfully close to us. I like the idea but am a little unsure of the specific strats. Would we still want to get another city out before starting the rush?

I'll play the 3 turns till AH comes in and then stop for discussion.

 

[v8_mark]

Well (which is my way of saying there is about to be a serious braindump):

The way I see it is that the window for a chariot rush is smaller than normal, simply because we went for an early religion. Our starting techs didn't help us too much either, with the exception of Mining. All this expands the time until we can realistically take Stalin out, especially with chariots, as we would have to research:

AH (for horses)
The Wheel (for chariots and a road to said horses)
Bronze Working (for chopping trees and whipping - not absolutely necessary, but highly recommended)

Assuming that researching those three takes approximately another 35 turns, which is a fairly conservative estimate, we're already knocking on the door of 2000BC by the time those techs are in. Which means another 20-25 turns or so actually building the things, then making the short trip to Russia, which means we're extremely close to the 1500BC 'deadline' with which you can realistically attack with chariots. Stalin might have spears or axes running around by then, both of which would severely jeapordize (and in the case of spears, probably halt altogether) an early rush. And all of this is without a second city by that point.

Add to this a lack of information about whether Moscow is on a hill, and it becomes very hit-and-miss at this stage. We also have very poor production, especially in the short-term - there are only two production spots that I can see, and they're both long-term endeavours, requiring a border pop before they become at all useful.

So I think I'm against a chariot rush, simply on the grounds that there will be better opportunities. Our tech rate should be good in a couple of thousand years, so we can head for Construction and an elepult war. By then our two main production towns should be up and running, with a little bit of help from the capital, and we should be able to take him out without too much risk, mess or slowdown. If we try a chariot rush and fail, we're fairly terminally screwed in this game, whereas peacefully we can get 6 good cities by 1AD and hit him probably around then or just after.

My plan, in the short-term, would be to go BW, plop a settler on the production wheat/marble spot (or the wheat/gold spot, haven't decided; might depend on whether we want any marble wonders soon) and plop another couple, along with some cottages, on the commerce spots. We have a happy cap of 6-7, which is enough to be getting on with for the time being, probably until the mid-classical era when we'll either build the 'mids or (more likely) hit Monarchy. After BW, I'd go Wheel (barb defence) -> Pottery (grans and cottages) -> Writing (Libraries).

We could even build Stonehenge after our first settler - it'd be quite late and we might not get it, but it would give us a short-term prophet for long-term profit, and would be mega-useful for border pops.

 

[kolokol]

I think a chariot rush is still doable if there is horses easily available (we have 8+ forests to chop). CatPhant is safer though i really don't see many good city cites in the meantime. SSW of wheat will be good after a borderpop we should prioritise this if we don't rush.

Fish/cow site will be good as well and (settle on) sugar/fish [I will post a screen to better explain later tonight] other than those I dont see any worthwhile sites before calendar.

Re: Wonders I am constitutionally against letting wonders dictate strategy or city placement. Marble in the third ring of wheat city should be fine for parthenon - if not C'est la vie.

To sum up my thinking. Rush if horses are easily available other wise BW -> construction

if rush max settle one city for horse if no rush get the wheat cite


PS I suck at rushing so don't listen to me