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BUFFY & HOF Mod Releases

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by Denniz, Jul 25, 2009.

  1. AgedOne

    AgedOne Emperor

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    Correct!
    It isn't a huge deal. There are only 2 of us here who play Civ, and we can probably live with the same mod option settings. As I started out by saying, the one thing I noticed was that the autolog went into a central folder under Program Files. When I changed that to point to my own My Documents folder, it was changed for all WinUsers.

    Wonderful! Thank you. :goodjob:
    I would not have thought of creating a folder simply called BUFFY (I would have assumed BUFFY-3.19.001) and locating it right at the top of My Games, rather than inside Beyond the Sword\Mods. But it works a treat!
     
  2. EmperorFool

    EmperorFool Deity

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    It looks in a few places (more confusion the better!), including also in the My Games / BTS folder. And it's BUFFY instead of using the full name with version so that different versions can share settings as I ensure that settings are always backward compatible.
     
  3. R3d

    R3d Chieftain

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    Awesome work, with such a helpful mod with HOF support I just may start trying to get some decent scores. So many awesome features, I think my favorites are the dot maps for city planning, and ability to see the actual gains of each building in each city.
     
  4. BLubmuz

    BLubmuz HoF Quattromaster

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    Good news.
    I has to reinstall the most of my programs, starting from a basic image.
    I installed all the CIV expansions, the HoF mods and i tried to start new games under HoF.
    Any exp. was OK.
    Then i installed the last version of Blue Marble, launched some more "custon game" and all the new games were OK.

    In the end it was probably some corrupted file somewhere.
     
  5. humbe

    humbe Warlord

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    Ehm.. Why is noone complaining about what they need administrator rights for to play Civ? Anyone have any idea about why windows systems have security leaks all over and tons of infected computers while unix systems do not? A lot is having to do with not running untrusthworthy applications with administrator access.

    What on earth does the mod needs administrator access for? I don't mind (terribly) changing permissions/ownership of some civilization directories or civ files, but letting a huge 3rd party application run with all rights, so they can use my computer to break into pentagon, send spam, install viruses or delete all my porn, I'm terribly sceptic about.

    You can do a lot without administrator rights, which leaves me pondering on what on earth you need it for. Please let us know what the mod actually need root access for so we can give rights for something specific and not turn our machines over to the mod developers. Or at the very least hear that you seem to have a decent reason for forcing us to run it with admin rights.

    If the mod is starting memory resident programs, alters the OS, sets up network servers or similar we deserve to know.
     
  6. Sam_Yeager

    Sam_Yeager Another Original Geezer

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    BUFFY includes the HOF mod and is required for those playing HOF, GOTM and SGOTM games. The HOF mod has always required administrator rights. I've moaned about this before in the HOF forum as I can happily run Civ4 as an ordinary user but to no avail. :mad:

    BUG and IIRC BULL doesn't require admin privileges so maybe you should wait until they are updated and use those.
     
  7. Denniz

    Denniz Where's my breakfast? Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    We are not doing anything like that. And we are not doing anything that would compromise players PCs or their private information.

    The HOF Mod has been around for about two years. I would hope that our track record would convince people that we only interested in providing a playing environment where people can be relatively certain that everyone is playing by the same rules.

    If you are not comfortable with the access, then please don't use the mods. There are plenty of good mods like BUG and BULL out there with great functionality.
     
  8. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    No doubt many people have discovered that Alt-M and Alt-X no longer start and stop MapFinder.

    I searched and found a reference to Sevopedia listing the keyboard shortcuts and found that CTRL-Alt-G starts and stops MapFinder. I don't like it already; I hate toggle switches like this. It should be like a normal light switch, flip it up (Alt-M) and the light goes on and flip it down (Alt-X) and the light goes off.

    When I first tried CTRL-Atl-G, MapFinder does not start as expected. No, Google Desktop Search pops up; just what I didn't want. Fortunately, Google Desktop Search has a convenient way to modify the keyboard shortcuts that activate it; just run regedit, create a DWORD key in just the right place with just the right name and just the right value and you will be blessed by Google Desktop Search no longer responding to CTRL-Atl-G. Now, finally, I've been able to start MapFinder; now what was the shortcut to stop it? :(

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  9. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    I used the MapFinder application version 1.7.1 to set up my Rule and Path to store saved Maps. I selected the Path via File -> Set Directory ... and the Rule via File -> Rule Builder ... Then I committed these settings via HOF -> Update Save Path.

    I noticed that MapFinder missed a Map it should have saved based on my Rule file. I checked MapFinder within BtS (BUFFY), but it still shows Default.rul as the rule its using. I can see the Path to the MapFinder executable, but where's the Path defined for Save files? It can't be the same; how could that possibly work in general. My MapFinder application and where I want to save files aren't even on the same physical drive. I suppose the Path that looks like its the MapFinder executable could the save Path, but that is quite confusing.

    There seem to be a few loose ends that got lost with regard to MapFinder and BUFFY-3.19.001.

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  10. EmperorFool

    EmperorFool Deity

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    I implemented MapFinder in BUG (and BUFFY) as it was in HOF without any design notes, and the only path used in the game is the Saves path. It assumes the folder name is "Saves" as I think HOF was doing, so if it worked with HOF it should work with BUFFY. Just point it to the folder that contains the Saves folder, wherever that might be.

    As for the shortcuts, if you aren't submitting HOF or xOTM games you can change the shortcuts in the configuration files (Assets/Config/MapFinder.xml). The next version will have them be customizable on the options screen, but we didn't have enough time to do that this go-around.

    ALT + M and ALT + X were already used by long-standing BUG features, so I had to pick something new for MapFinder. ALT + G regenerates the map while ALT + CTRL + G starts and stops MapFinder.
     
  11. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    Mapfinder used to display where it was going to save files and which Rule file it was using when it started. It no longer does this. It is especially important to know that it is using the expected Rule file. It is also nice to know where it is saving the files to.

    I solved this putting an empty Save directory and a Rules directory in the Path and cut and paste these into the BUFFY-3.19.001 Map tab Path and Rules text boxes. Much more primitive than before, but it works now.

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  12. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    Well, stopping MapFinder seems near impossible. I must have pressed CTRL-ATL-G a half dozen time or more, before it finally stopped. This is not acceptable.

    Maybe the problem is using the same keyboard shortcut to start and stop?

    A more serious problem is BtS is terminating itself after I stop MapFinder and switch to Firefox to post messages. It's happened twice within the past hour or so. MapFinder needs to be stable; many people run it overnight routinely.

    Does BtS 3.19 have a stability problem? BtS 3.17 has been rock solid stable, except for a few timing issues with MapFinder save conflicts, but that was clearly timing issues with the HOF-3.17.001 MapFinder module that were resolved by increasing the delay between map regenerations?

    OK, I think I just need to increase the delay between map regenerations; I don't think it should be set by the default to such a small delay. Stability should be valued over speed, up to about 50% effciency, if that's what's needed for absolute stability.

    I'll try some of the longer delay settings and report on whether or not it helps.

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  13. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    There are three Delays in the Map Tab for MapFinder:

    Regeneration Delay: 0.00
    Skip Delay: 0.25
    Save Delay: 2.00

    I could guess at what these mean, but maybe someone could explain ...

    MapFinder isn't running as stable or as responsive to stop commands as I'd like, but I'm sure that setting the first two delays may improve stability and responsiveness. I think the save delay could be shorter, since my hard drive seems pretty fast; it probably takes it a split second to save a start file.

    The old HOF-3.17.001 had just one delay that could be increased or decreased as needed based on map size and map type and other factors.

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  14. EmperorFool

    EmperorFool Deity

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    The delays don't include the time it takes to regenerate the map nor save the game; they are the delays before taking that action. As with all options on the options screen tabs, hover over them to see help text for them.

    Regeneration: Delay before regenerating the map
    Save: Delay before taking a screenshot and saving a map that passes the rules
    Skip: Delay before skipping a map that doesn't pass the rules.

    I played around a little with the original MapFinder, and I didn't find it any more responsive to stop commands. The problem is that while the map is being regenerated, Civ queues up keyboard commands. They all take effect once the map finishes regenerating. Thus, when you want to stop, hit it once

    I'll consider splitting the start/stop keys into two shortcuts for the next version. ALT + SHIFT + G to stop perhaps.
     
  15. Denniz

    Denniz Where's my breakfast? Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    The MapFinder utility hasn't been changed to update the ini file settings in BUFFY. (It never occured to me that people woule be expecting it to without an update.) You will have to update the save path and rules file manually in BUFFY until I get some time to mess with the MapFinder utility. RL has been a little busy for the last few months.

    With regards to the toggle, it is unfortunate that the command keys conflict with google search. I guess none of us use it so it never came up (no pun intended). EmperorFool is going to make the command keys configurable in the next release.

    I understand that change is stressful but please go easy with the comments. Different isn't automatically wrong.
     
  16. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    Thanks for the explanation.

    I didn't know about the mouse-over function. Unfortunately, mouse-overs seem to be either too obvious and thus annoying or too subtle and thus the user is potentially not even aware of them.

    The mouse-overs do provide excellent technical detail concerning what they are. However, I'm still a little bit unsure of how to best use them to get the desired combination of stability and speed within MapFinder. No doubt three different delays within BUFFY's MapFinder are better than the old MapFinder's single delay, but I still don't know to to manipulate them to get the desired combination of speed and stability.

    Sorry for being so blunt regarding why MapFinder should have different keyboard shortcuts for starting and stopping. A toggle keyboard shortcut is only acceptable for tasks with immediate feedback. We know the map regeneration task can't handle this, since as you mentioned above Civ4 simply queues the keystrokes during map regeneration. The larger maps can take many seconds to regenerate, so a user may in haste type several sequences of CTRL-ATL-G in a row and after that watch in amazement as MapFinder starts and stops itself several times in a row without now touching the keyboard as it burns through the various layers of keyboard shortcut handlers that may interpose themselves between the keyboard and a windowed Civ4 keyboard buffer.

    EmperorFool, thank for your work on MapFinder! It did run lightning fast out of the box! It is also working much better ... now that I found a way to flexibly change the Save and Rule Path. Would be nice to have a browse function for the Path plus separate Save Paths and Rule Paths ... Cutting and pasting the path for MapFinder Maps with empty Save and Rule directories plus copying the MapFinder App there will get tiring over time. Not sure why BUFFY cares that it find a MapFinder App there anyway; many applications can read jpg files after all.

    Sun Tzu Wu


    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  17. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    I recall seeing a post saying that MapFinder App 1.7.1 works with BUFFY-3.19.001. I guess it was naive to assume everything would work. However, everything in MapFinder App 1.7.1 could reasonably work without change by using the same INI format in the BUFFY module that what originally used in the HOF module.

    I didn't install Google Desktop Search on my PC; it was part of the software bundle that came with the machine; the only part of the software bundle I ever used was Vista itself.

    I never used Google Desktop Search, so it was a shocking surprise that it ran instead of MapFinder when I first typed CTRL-ALT-G in BtS 3.19 with BUFFY-3.19.001. I actually typed CTRL-ALT-G several times, before it occured to me that CTRL-ALT-G was a shortcut for Google Desktop Search. It took about an hour to find the regedit instructions for disabling that shortcut; I thought it quite un-Google-like to have such simple thing made so difficult (tedious) to do.

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  18. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    Is there a way to de-select a single Technology when multiple Technologies have been selected?

    Is there a way to de-select a Technology subtree when multiple Technologies have been selected? This would deselect the Meta-<right/left>-clicked Technology plus any Technologies it is a prerequisite for, where Meta = Alt, Windows Key, CTRL or any combination of such modal keys.

    A selection example would be the Shift-clicking of an Technology that adds it plus the least costly list of required prerequisite Technologies.

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  19. EmperorFool

    EmperorFool Deity

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    I'm not going to spend days building a browse dialog in Civ4, so copy-paste is going to have to suffice. I am happy to provide two separate path fields to make it easy to have them in different places.

    I don't know what you mean about it finding the MapFinder application, though.

    Again, I'm not keen to spend hours reworking how and where BUG stores its INI files when MapFinder could be changed in minutes probably, especially when you should only need to setup the MF options once.[/QUOTE]
     
  20. Denniz

    Denniz Where's my breakfast? Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Don't worry, I'll fix MapFinder to update the paths in BUFFY once I get some more time. I am coming off a difficult implementation and have been spending most of my waking (and some of my non-waking) hours on it. I am hoping things will quite down some starting next week.
     

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