BuShiDo - the Way of Exploit - Tackling 1 vs. 7 Deity Standard Pangaea

[Jaaboo]

Great game Maltz. The CS wars with the teamed AI does seem a bit iffy but then again, it's 7-vs-1, how else are you going to compete? I found that to be the coolest part of the early strategy, as well as watching a Steel rush being played out - I had never done the Steel rush before, and ... wow. Doing this jumped me up a level, on Prince, I was able to literally kill everyone before they even got SWORDSMEN on the field. So it was a good first game to play on King.

 

[Schalke 04]

Thank you for taking the time and effort to produce this for us. It is much appreciated.

absolutely!

 

[Mods]

That was really awesome, I read it all

 

[Rittmeyer]

maltz:

My first reaction is Ottoman's Janissary rush accompanied by Cannons (which can be covered by two successive Free techs from Porcelain Tower and the first G-Sci from University.). With Honor policy tree, they will quickly catch up to have March and Blitz. And Rifling is just around the Corner. I tried that before and was absolutely shocked by their Alien-like effectiveness all the way especially in their ultimate evolution (Mechanized Infantry). They will eat through a "sea of doom" like Packman on little yellow dots.

And before the rush begins, one can take a peaceful approach. Or, without UU it is still possible to cripple the first opponent (stealing their 2nd, relatively defenseless cities really early on) with some Warrior rush and secure a fat peace treaty. But it requires some luck. I believe pure NC start + RAs is still able to see the beginning of a Janissary rush relatively soon. As people can beat OCC games for any kind of victory with the use of RAs - even without!

well, thanks for the answer but, as I posted, I was refering to situations in which you don't consider a UU, but instead a general strategy. At some point you refer to no-UU but then you are talking about the Janissary again. I guess it can be done without UU's or Iron them.

thanks again.

 

[Deau]

207. More enemy units appeared. They are now two geneartions behind! I wonder why the AIs took so long to get Rifleman?

I think you've answered this by your own review of tech cost increase per player in a team. For a 7-team, the beaker cost of each research is 3.8 times the one of of a single civ so by the time there are fewer than 4 full strength AIs left on the team their total research output is worse than that of a single AI that can't use CSs 33% and can't do any RA.

Can't exactly math out the relative strength of GS vs CSs+RAs but you see the point anyway

Awesome read btw.

 

[vanjito]

maltz:


well, thanks for the answer but, as I posted, I was refering to situations in which you don't consider a UU, but instead a general strategy. At some point you refer to no-UU but then you are talking about the Janissary again. I guess it can be done without UU's or Iron them.

thanks again.

So the Babylon is out of the question also, due to it's UU archers? Or is Babylon ok?

Marathon ok or it must be standard?

Map size smaller than standard?

More CIV's than map suggests?

Reload (random seed) on ruins? No ruins?


Just asking - I have a few ideas and would like to try, but I'd like to know the rules

 

[maltz]

maltz:
I was referring to situations in which you don't consider a UU, but instead a general strategy.

Certainly, one can use RAs to stay close to the pack, and wait till Rifleman and Cannon, Artillery to start expansion. That is probably too late for Domination victory on standard map (or up) and standard speed (or faster). Maybe nuclear bomb for end-game?

 

[maltz]

I was able to literally kill everyone before they even got SWORDSMEN on the field. So it was a good first game to play on King.

Glad it works for you, too.

 

[maltz]

this strategy let me destroy on prince level. i was doing so well that i decided mid-game to go for a diplomatic victory instead and still got it in 1800's

Yep. Longswordsman rush is currently the most powerful general early expansion strategy. It was Horseman when the game was first released, then it got nerfed.

 

[Rittmeyer]

So the Babylon is out of the question also, due to it's UU archers? Or is Babylon ok?

Marathon ok or it must be standard?

Map size smaller than standard?

More CIV's than map suggests?

Reload (random seed) on ruins? No ruins?


Just asking - I have a few ideas and would like to try, but I'd like to know the rules

I like general strategies for default settings. So it`s not about a bunch of rules, it`s just that I`m not interested, let`s say, in a strategy that only works with Siam. I never even played Siam. If I can only beat a level with Siam, I can`t beat that level at all.

But let`s make a set of rules about what I`d like to see....

- Deity
- No UU abuse. Everyone has a UU. I just mean a strategy that is not based on abusing a UU to win a decisive war. So if you will war with gunpowder, no musketeer, no janissary. And so on.
- Standard or Small maps. It should be standard, but I play small maps. In Civ 5, they fill more like the default map to me.
- Normal speed. I don`t even consider slower speed or read about them. That`s another game enterily.
- No reload, ruins on, default number of Civs for map size.
- About Babylon: the UU is ok, the UA is the problem. Babylon can bulb a tech that will lead to a tech advantage that no one else can have in the same point of the game. So it`s not valid for a general strategy.

...

and of course, no acess to iron (at all) in your first war. This is the main point.

 

[vanjito]

I like general strategies for default settings. So it`s not about a bunch of rules, it`s just that I`m not interested, let`s say, in a strategy that only works with Siam. I never even played Siam. If I can only beat a level with Siam, I can`t beat that level at all.

But let`s make a set of rules about what I`d like to see....

- Deity
- No UU abuse. Everyone has a UU. I just mean a strategy that is not based on abusing a UU to win a decisive war. So if you will war with gunpowder, no musketeer, no janissary. And so on.
- Standard or Small maps. It should be standard, but I play small maps. In Civ 5, they fill more like the default map to me.
- Normal speed. I don`t even consider slower speed or read about them. That`s another game enterily.
- No reload, ruins on, default number of Civs for map size.
- About Babylon: the UU is ok, the UA is the problem. Babylon can bulb a tech that will lead to a tech advantage that no one else can have in the same point of the game. So it`s not valid for a general strategy.

...

and of course, no acess to iron (at all) in your first war. This is the main point.

I'm so sorry that I did't read this before playing this game the better part of this game http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=420809.

From hindsight you could win a first war with Pikeman and Crossbowman - without Iron. But it would require at least 4-5 luxury for RA's (without Babylon). The tricky part is that you would have access to Longswordsman for next war but they wouldn't have March. Also your Cannons later wouldn't have all the nifty Crossbowman promotions - since you didn't use catapults. The game favors Iron and you better buy it if you have no access to it


I have to say writing up a story is a LOT of work. Finished a game in one day and in one day I'm on about one third of the story?!

Now I appreciate Maltz's effort to provide us with his stories even more

 

[Mango Elephant]

That was amazing!

 

[Arilian]

how about trying it out with the new patch. (Just the beginning)

 

[Blue Oyster]

Thanks for a great read, Maltz, and for the hard work that went into producing the story and analysis.

 

[maltz]

Yawn. Boring.
Human vs. 21 Deity Team. That is interesting.

I appreciated the joke (I guess?) and actually am giving some serious thoughts into the feasibility.
The first obstacle is to have a powerful enough computer to run a map big enough to house 22 Civilizations with normal growth.

Technology-wise I wonder whether the AI team would have a huge Great Scientist-free tech explosion after mid-game? That will be very interesting to see.

 

[Rittmeyer]

I'm so sorry that I did't read this before playing this game the better part of this game http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=420809.

From hindsight you could win a first war with Pikeman and Crossbowman - without Iron. But it would require at least 4-5 luxury for RA's (without Babylon). The tricky part is that you would have access to Longswordsman for next war but they wouldn't have March. Also your Cannons later wouldn't have all the nifty Crossbowman promotions - since you didn't use catapults. The game favors Iron and you better buy it if you have no access to it

You see, even the 4-5 RA's part is impossible for me. That's because I play small/continent maps. I have at most three neighbours in the beginning, usually less. I guess being limited to small maps is what is screwing me (except when I have Iron).

Anyways, this new patch seens to have screwed everything again, so... not much point to discuss the old reality anymore. I hate the developers of this game.

 

[Tabarnak]

I hate the developers of this game.

So true. Strategies still obsolete fast almost 1 year after release. My production strat is at least still very alive for multiplayer. They can't tweak human's behavior

 

[vanjito]

You see, even the 4-5 RA's part is impossible for me. That's because I play small/continent maps. I have at most three neighbours in the beginning, usually less. I guess being limited to small maps is what is screwing me (except when I have Iron).

Anyways, this new patch seens to have screwed everything again, so... not much point to discuss the old reality anymore. I hate the developers of this game.

How do see new patch screwed everything? (didn't play it)

In my (other) games without Iron in my lands Longsword rush was ALWAYS possible, you just need to check and catch the AI's exactly at the moment when they improve their Iron and buy few (5 for 3 melee and 2 catas is a lot, you can do with 2 Long 1 Catas and 1-2 Archer/Xbowman). Crush the other AI that has it and you're done. Not losing units and high promotions is the key. No headless rushing but steady conquest, AI is predictable, defend against their hordes and advance slowly when their initial onslaught stops.

Even when you beeline Longswords all AI's get Iron in time. So, maybe no Swords rush but Longswords for sure.

If no one has any Iron then it would be more difficult but that hasn't been the case for me, ever.

 

[cavenam]

This made me full of potato.
Simply amazing.
:slowclap:

 

[galdor123]

Great Game

Tried my first ever emperor game with a similar strategy and just crushed the AI...