das
Regeneration In Process
Hmm... Could anyone help me out and give me a realistic Viking name (or, better yet, give me a REAL Viking from before 820 AD)? I would need it soon. Thanks in advance.
By a Single Decision (Alternate History)
- Thread starter das
- Start date
North King
blech
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 18,165
Any germanic name ought to do, the Germans after all came from Scandinavia, I can't seem to find a historical guy from back before then. Harald, Erik, names like that and then their last name seems generally to be something given for what they did or... I'm rambling. But like "the Bluetooth", "the Red", descriptions were what they were known by, not actual surnames, it seems.
das
Regeneration In Process
Well, I guess I might as well "butterfly" in a Viking leader. Hmm... Sven the Red will work?
das
Regeneration In Process
OOC: No vikings yet. But soon...
IC:
Chapter Twelve.
During the reign of Harun al-Rashid, The Caliphate as a whole and Iraq specifically prospered economically and culturally. The wealth of the Caliph was fabled, and well-known. However, an empire as large as the Abbasid Caliphate can barely endure - as proven by the Romans before them.
From Garonne to Sind, the empire prospered from trade, stabilization and creation of many great centers of learning. The only dangerous neighbor was the Byzantine Empire - all others were either too preoccupied with their petty struggles to attack, either simply didn’t care (like the Chinese Empire, which stopped all expansion westwards after the Talas River). However, the ethnical differences, religious schism between Sunni and Shia and feuds between different Arab factions make Arabia a barrel of the yet-to-be-invented gunpowder.
The spark that started off the First Abbasid Civil War was Harun al-Rashid’s death in 810 (OOC: one year later, and from a prolonged illness - allowing him to enforce his ideas about the future of the Caliphate). Before dying, he managed to divide the Caliphate into Eastern and Western - the Eastern, including everything east of Iraq, was to be reigned by al-Mamun, the elder of his two sons, but a one born from a Persian slave. The other one, al-Amin, was to reign everything else, him being younger by six months, but from a “free” wife.
For a while, it seemed that this system will work. However, al-Mamun decided in 812 that the power should go to him. Amassing his army, he attacked Iraq, routing al-Amin at Baghdad (unfortunately, burning the city down) and forcing him to retreat to Syria, and later, to Egypt.
Not wanting to risk a breakup of the Caliphate, al-Mamun regrouped his forces, and pursued al-Amin. He defeated him at Golans in June 813, but in Egypt, he was outmaneuvered and defeated at Giza. Having nevertheless escaped to Iraq, he launched yet another offensive, but it stalemated and he had to sign peace with al-Amin, allowing him to rule Muslim Africa and West Europe while keeping the rest for himself. Thus, the Western (Aminid) and Eastern (Mamunid) Caliphates were set up in January 815.
The civil war and the division has weakened the Caliphate greatly. It also encouraged numerous rebellions and localized wars between Shiites and Sunnis. It also allowed for the Byzantines to attack Arabs from the north during the first Egyptian campaign, and secure northern half of Syria and Armenia. Muslim power was dealt a significant blow.
IC:
Chapter Twelve.
During the reign of Harun al-Rashid, The Caliphate as a whole and Iraq specifically prospered economically and culturally. The wealth of the Caliph was fabled, and well-known. However, an empire as large as the Abbasid Caliphate can barely endure - as proven by the Romans before them.
From Garonne to Sind, the empire prospered from trade, stabilization and creation of many great centers of learning. The only dangerous neighbor was the Byzantine Empire - all others were either too preoccupied with their petty struggles to attack, either simply didn’t care (like the Chinese Empire, which stopped all expansion westwards after the Talas River). However, the ethnical differences, religious schism between Sunni and Shia and feuds between different Arab factions make Arabia a barrel of the yet-to-be-invented gunpowder.
The spark that started off the First Abbasid Civil War was Harun al-Rashid’s death in 810 (OOC: one year later, and from a prolonged illness - allowing him to enforce his ideas about the future of the Caliphate). Before dying, he managed to divide the Caliphate into Eastern and Western - the Eastern, including everything east of Iraq, was to be reigned by al-Mamun, the elder of his two sons, but a one born from a Persian slave. The other one, al-Amin, was to reign everything else, him being younger by six months, but from a “free” wife.
For a while, it seemed that this system will work. However, al-Mamun decided in 812 that the power should go to him. Amassing his army, he attacked Iraq, routing al-Amin at Baghdad (unfortunately, burning the city down) and forcing him to retreat to Syria, and later, to Egypt.
Not wanting to risk a breakup of the Caliphate, al-Mamun regrouped his forces, and pursued al-Amin. He defeated him at Golans in June 813, but in Egypt, he was outmaneuvered and defeated at Giza. Having nevertheless escaped to Iraq, he launched yet another offensive, but it stalemated and he had to sign peace with al-Amin, allowing him to rule Muslim Africa and West Europe while keeping the rest for himself. Thus, the Western (Aminid) and Eastern (Mamunid) Caliphates were set up in January 815.
The civil war and the division has weakened the Caliphate greatly. It also encouraged numerous rebellions and localized wars between Shiites and Sunnis. It also allowed for the Byzantines to attack Arabs from the north during the first Egyptian campaign, and secure northern half of Syria and Armenia. Muslim power was dealt a significant blow.
das
Regeneration In Process
Uh... anyone still here? I DO have several new chapters ready to be posted.
North King
blech
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 18,165
Yes... (ten)
Specialist290
Terracotta Statue Man
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2003
- Messages
- 1,335
I am awaiting these chapters eagerly.
das
Regeneration In Process
OOC: Chapter Thirteen is not very good, I admit.
IC:
Chapter Thirteen.
Noone saw it coming. The horrifying boats... ships... or whatever they were, suddenly appeared near the Holy Island, Lindisfarne, the center of Northumbrian culture. Those boats were carrying fearsome warriors. With bloodthirsty yells, they spread across the island, killing all they saw. Defenseless monks were slaughtered with ease, and the monastery was plundered. Their boats made a retreat towards wherever they came from, leaving behind them a barren island.
Northumbria was grasped by panic. Some even thought this to be the end of the world, and numerous rebellions happened, putting the country into decline and anarchy.
This was the beginning of the era of pirates, as they called themselves. Vikingr. The Vikings.
The raid on Lindisfarne in 793 was soon followed up by the devastation of numerous other small islands. Soon enough, the coasts of Anglia, Wales, Scotland and Ireland were attacked as well, and entire towns were plundered. The armies of the defenders simply had no time to catch the Vikings, and even if, by some coincidence, they did manage to start a battle with the raiders, the Vikings would crush them with their berserk charges.
Raiders from Denmark also started to attack the Saxons. Albeit Vitukind did strike back and occupied Jutland, the naval raids on both Saxony and his forces eventually forced him to withdraw. The Danes pressed on, conquering the Danelund islands (OTL (Old) Zeeland, the islanders in Netherlands), and reaching out from there to as far as Garonne.
Not only did those raids put several nations in fear and farther encouraged the creation of Viking militant culture, but they also created the setting (and much encouragement) for future campaigns - only this time, campaigns of conquest and not of plunder. The conquest of Danelund made them believe that they could also take over much larger and juicier lands... like, say, Northumbria.
IC:
Chapter Thirteen.
Noone saw it coming. The horrifying boats... ships... or whatever they were, suddenly appeared near the Holy Island, Lindisfarne, the center of Northumbrian culture. Those boats were carrying fearsome warriors. With bloodthirsty yells, they spread across the island, killing all they saw. Defenseless monks were slaughtered with ease, and the monastery was plundered. Their boats made a retreat towards wherever they came from, leaving behind them a barren island.
Northumbria was grasped by panic. Some even thought this to be the end of the world, and numerous rebellions happened, putting the country into decline and anarchy.
This was the beginning of the era of pirates, as they called themselves. Vikingr. The Vikings.
The raid on Lindisfarne in 793 was soon followed up by the devastation of numerous other small islands. Soon enough, the coasts of Anglia, Wales, Scotland and Ireland were attacked as well, and entire towns were plundered. The armies of the defenders simply had no time to catch the Vikings, and even if, by some coincidence, they did manage to start a battle with the raiders, the Vikings would crush them with their berserk charges.
Raiders from Denmark also started to attack the Saxons. Albeit Vitukind did strike back and occupied Jutland, the naval raids on both Saxony and his forces eventually forced him to withdraw. The Danes pressed on, conquering the Danelund islands (OTL (Old) Zeeland, the islanders in Netherlands), and reaching out from there to as far as Garonne.
Not only did those raids put several nations in fear and farther encouraged the creation of Viking militant culture, but they also created the setting (and much encouragement) for future campaigns - only this time, campaigns of conquest and not of plunder. The conquest of Danelund made them believe that they could also take over much larger and juicier lands... like, say, Northumbria.
das
Regeneration In Process
Chapter Fourteen.
The loot, fame and confidence gained from the raids allowed several Norse chieftains to rise above the others, and expand their territory at the expense of those who didn't get as lucky. Those who didn't "get lucky" either died, either allied under the leadership of Sven the Red (a Viking adventurer and a minor chieftain) and set sail to Anglia.
Sven's idea that Northumbria COULD be conquered for living space came in 804, when his warriors burned down Jarrow and realized that the Northumbrian army didn't care, as it was busy. After the destruction of Lindisfarne, many Northumbrian peasants decided that the end of the world was coming, and this led to quite a lot of panic and anarchy. Using this, several earls rebelled from the Northumbrian king, Eardwulf, who, to make things worse, only recently came back to the throne. Northumbria was in an effective civil war.
So, in early 807, 800 ragtag Vikings sailed up the Humbrey and landed near undergarrisoned York. Sven's army besieged the city, and entered it using some primitive siege rams. It was a massacre, but not a complete one. York (or Yorvick as the Vikings renamed it) was looted, but left somewhat intact, to be the capital of Viking Northumbria.
Eardwulf, suddenly losing a capital, managed to get a break from the civil war by crushing some of the earls and making ceasefire with the rest, attempted to retake York. However, the Vikings did not want to give it back. The Battle of York ensued. Viking berserkers had heavy psychological effect on their enemies, turning them to flight, and allowing themselves to capture Eardwulf. Northumbria collapsed by 809, with a large part of it's eastern coastline conquered by the reinforced Vikings, it's king captured, and it's earls carving up whatever remained.
Effectively, in 810, Sven the Red crowned himself Sven I, King of Northumbria. The earls had no other choice but to submit.
In this new kingdom, Vikings soon begun to be assimilated by the local culture and population, becoming a minority. They also did not form all of the elite, only a certain part of it. Nevertheless, they had large influence. Danish became the "court language" for some time, and Christianity's hold was challenged (albeit, soon it emerged again, but it wasn't "Roman"). Scandinavian law was introduced.
The loot, fame and confidence gained from the raids allowed several Norse chieftains to rise above the others, and expand their territory at the expense of those who didn't get as lucky. Those who didn't "get lucky" either died, either allied under the leadership of Sven the Red (a Viking adventurer and a minor chieftain) and set sail to Anglia.
Sven's idea that Northumbria COULD be conquered for living space came in 804, when his warriors burned down Jarrow and realized that the Northumbrian army didn't care, as it was busy. After the destruction of Lindisfarne, many Northumbrian peasants decided that the end of the world was coming, and this led to quite a lot of panic and anarchy. Using this, several earls rebelled from the Northumbrian king, Eardwulf, who, to make things worse, only recently came back to the throne. Northumbria was in an effective civil war.
So, in early 807, 800 ragtag Vikings sailed up the Humbrey and landed near undergarrisoned York. Sven's army besieged the city, and entered it using some primitive siege rams. It was a massacre, but not a complete one. York (or Yorvick as the Vikings renamed it) was looted, but left somewhat intact, to be the capital of Viking Northumbria.
Eardwulf, suddenly losing a capital, managed to get a break from the civil war by crushing some of the earls and making ceasefire with the rest, attempted to retake York. However, the Vikings did not want to give it back. The Battle of York ensued. Viking berserkers had heavy psychological effect on their enemies, turning them to flight, and allowing themselves to capture Eardwulf. Northumbria collapsed by 809, with a large part of it's eastern coastline conquered by the reinforced Vikings, it's king captured, and it's earls carving up whatever remained.
Effectively, in 810, Sven the Red crowned himself Sven I, King of Northumbria. The earls had no other choice but to submit.
In this new kingdom, Vikings soon begun to be assimilated by the local culture and population, becoming a minority. They also did not form all of the elite, only a certain part of it. Nevertheless, they had large influence. Danish became the "court language" for some time, and Christianity's hold was challenged (albeit, soon it emerged again, but it wasn't "Roman"). Scandinavian law was introduced.
das
Regeneration In Process
OOC: Honestly, I should stop this story unless I get ANY feedback in a week. I mean, if Daft can wait for three pages of "feedback" (read: spam) before posting another chapter, then can I please get one little post? Thank you.
IC:
Chapter Fifteen.
Sven the Red quickly adjusted to being a king, but nevertheless, he was more of a warlord then an administrator. As soon as the earls surrendered, he realized he had no more enemies to fight. For the first two years, he lived peacefully, inviting more and more Vikings to pour into Northumbria, declaring that Christianity wasn’t an enemy (albeit not converting, simply stopping to burn down NORTHUMBRIAN monasteries) and increasing amounts of raids - something that made Viking England many enemies.
In June 812, a war came, brought not by Sven’s forces, but by those of Beornwulf. Desperate to
improve his positions at home, Beornwulf, King of Mercia, decided to launch a “crusade” against the Vikings in Northumbria. Assembling an army, he marched north, expecting to find there a bunch of armorless barbarians who will run away when facing Mercian iron. This underestimation doomed him, as later into the year, his army was ambushed and defeated at Humber, and later routed by the Viking counterattack at Lincoln. Sven the Red - already then called “Sven the Conqueror” - led a fleet to Thames and the former Roman settlement of Londinium which he pillaged. At Otford in May 813, the meek attempt by the Mercian feudals to repulse him was defeated, while another Viking army captured Beornwulf and forced him to abdicate - naturally, in favor of Sven. The Olde Mercia (Mercian homeland in the west, which refused to submit) and Wessex were the last Anglo-Saxon areas that resisted the Vikings. However, facing an almost-certainly triumphant Viking attack, they collapsed as well, and were overran. But not by the Vikings.
Cymru (Welsh) tribes saw this defeat of Anglo-Saxons as THEIR chance to regain Britain. Temporarily unified by Rhodri Mawr, Welsh principalities, Strathclyde and Cornwall formed the Cymru “Empire”, which then invaded the last Anglo-Saxon lands. They defeated Viking raiders at Cardiff a year before, and were confident in their victory. In middle 815, they routed a small Viking army at Winchester and marched towards Londinium. Farther north from there, they confronted the numerically-superior Viking force led by Sven himself.
In the Battle of Bosworth Field, the Cymru plans were pretty straightforward - fend back the first enemy charge, and start a counter-charge. The Cymru had the advantage of cavalry and archers, whom Vikings often neglected. There were more of Vikings, though.
The battle which solved the fate of British Isles started with a Viking vanguard charge. It was fended off despite the berserk attack which almost made the Cymru break. The second wave of attack was fended back by a cavalry flanking move. The Cymru warriors did not hesitate to charge after that, not knowing that there was a third wave as well...
Viking berserkers and Cymru warriors collided in the middle of the Bosworth Field. The fighting was roughly equal due to Sven leading numerous ferocious charges personally, raising the morale of the Vikings, and due to the Cymru archers and horsemen (albeit most of the latter were soon slaughtered via spears). Finally, however, Rhodri Mawr was hit by a battleaxe, and died, to the remorse of his warriors. The Cymru were routed, and Sven (now adding to his title “the Welshbane”
soon not only took all of Mercia, but even conquered Strathclyde and Cornwall - the Cymru of Wales, meanwhile, used “Offa’s Dyke” to fend back the overland invasion, while repelling most raiders.
IC:
Chapter Fifteen.
Sven the Red quickly adjusted to being a king, but nevertheless, he was more of a warlord then an administrator. As soon as the earls surrendered, he realized he had no more enemies to fight. For the first two years, he lived peacefully, inviting more and more Vikings to pour into Northumbria, declaring that Christianity wasn’t an enemy (albeit not converting, simply stopping to burn down NORTHUMBRIAN monasteries) and increasing amounts of raids - something that made Viking England many enemies.
In June 812, a war came, brought not by Sven’s forces, but by those of Beornwulf. Desperate to
improve his positions at home, Beornwulf, King of Mercia, decided to launch a “crusade” against the Vikings in Northumbria. Assembling an army, he marched north, expecting to find there a bunch of armorless barbarians who will run away when facing Mercian iron. This underestimation doomed him, as later into the year, his army was ambushed and defeated at Humber, and later routed by the Viking counterattack at Lincoln. Sven the Red - already then called “Sven the Conqueror” - led a fleet to Thames and the former Roman settlement of Londinium which he pillaged. At Otford in May 813, the meek attempt by the Mercian feudals to repulse him was defeated, while another Viking army captured Beornwulf and forced him to abdicate - naturally, in favor of Sven. The Olde Mercia (Mercian homeland in the west, which refused to submit) and Wessex were the last Anglo-Saxon areas that resisted the Vikings. However, facing an almost-certainly triumphant Viking attack, they collapsed as well, and were overran. But not by the Vikings.
Cymru (Welsh) tribes saw this defeat of Anglo-Saxons as THEIR chance to regain Britain. Temporarily unified by Rhodri Mawr, Welsh principalities, Strathclyde and Cornwall formed the Cymru “Empire”, which then invaded the last Anglo-Saxon lands. They defeated Viking raiders at Cardiff a year before, and were confident in their victory. In middle 815, they routed a small Viking army at Winchester and marched towards Londinium. Farther north from there, they confronted the numerically-superior Viking force led by Sven himself.
In the Battle of Bosworth Field, the Cymru plans were pretty straightforward - fend back the first enemy charge, and start a counter-charge. The Cymru had the advantage of cavalry and archers, whom Vikings often neglected. There were more of Vikings, though.
The battle which solved the fate of British Isles started with a Viking vanguard charge. It was fended off despite the berserk attack which almost made the Cymru break. The second wave of attack was fended back by a cavalry flanking move. The Cymru warriors did not hesitate to charge after that, not knowing that there was a third wave as well...
Viking berserkers and Cymru warriors collided in the middle of the Bosworth Field. The fighting was roughly equal due to Sven leading numerous ferocious charges personally, raising the morale of the Vikings, and due to the Cymru archers and horsemen (albeit most of the latter were soon slaughtered via spears). Finally, however, Rhodri Mawr was hit by a battleaxe, and died, to the remorse of his warriors. The Cymru were routed, and Sven (now adding to his title “the Welshbane”
soon not only took all of Mercia, but even conquered Strathclyde and Cornwall - the Cymru of Wales, meanwhile, used “Offa’s Dyke” to fend back the overland invasion, while repelling most raiders.
Vanadorn
Motorcycling Paladin
I'm sure Daft originally enjoyed the feedback but it was so long between posts that the spammers eventually ate him and his thread. You at least post every day or two. Don't get discouraged if no one is responding, feel guaranteed that people are reading.
Go keep on writing!
One question - how far ahead are you plotting this AltHist? Local logical time line or stretching further into the 1st millenium and beyond? Just curious. Also, is this plotted out somewhere or are you allowing your knowledge of local histories and the alterations you've introduced to drive the story on a chapter by chapter basis?
(Check it out - feedback AND some intelligent questions ).
V
Go keep on writing!
One question - how far ahead are you plotting this AltHist? Local logical time line or stretching further into the 1st millenium and beyond? Just curious. Also, is this plotted out somewhere or are you allowing your knowledge of local histories and the alterations you've introduced to drive the story on a chapter by chapter basis?
(Check it out - feedback AND some intelligent questions
).V
das
Regeneration In Process
Thanks - about time with the questions, too.
Don't really know where will I take it. At first I planned to take it until the end of the Viking Age at least. As for now? We will see.
I do plan out some things ahead, but I make up a fairly large amount of the history as I go. Knowledge of history (partially borrowed from Britannica) plus the alteractions are there as well - most things I plan ahead are based on this premise indeed.
Don't really know where will I take it. At first I planned to take it until the end of the Viking Age at least. As for now? We will see.
I do plan out some things ahead, but I make up a fairly large amount of the history as I go. Knowledge of history (partially borrowed from Britannica) plus the alteractions are there as well - most things I plan ahead are based on this premise indeed.
Spoiler near future :
das
Regeneration In Process
P.S. Us spammers ate Daftpanzer's thread AND Daft himself? That's a relief, for a moment there I thought he got away...
das
Regeneration In Process
OOC: I think I owe you a new chapter (note how I am afraid of saying the word update because some of the fellow NESers might notice it and think I mean the NES. It will be brutal if that happens...). Here it is.
Oh, and sorry about the length, or the lack thereof. The main point of this chapter is to provide the setting for the next two chapters that I hope you people will find more exciting...
IC:
Chapter Sixteen.
While the Western Caliphate, still rebuilding its power after the disaster in Saxony, was content to live in peace with the other “people of the book” (and everybody else, really), the Eastern Caliphate, led by al-Mamun but also increasingly by his advisor and general Abdullah wanted to make its position firmer after the failure to reconquer Egypt and, slightly later, Syria. The obvious way to do it was a Jihad, or at least that was what Abdullah recommended.
But whom to attack? Byzantine Empire – strong and united, Western Caliphate – Muslim (and was proficient at hit-and-run harassment), the Khazars controlled several strategic points in a mountain range, which would allow them to fend back the Arabs. The solution was noticed to the east – in India.
India circa 800 AD consisted of many little states, and a few larger ones – namely, Gurjara-Pratihara, Rastrakuta, Pala and Pandya. Of these, Gurjara-Pratihara was the strongest, in theory, but also somehow unstable. A power struggle was going on for the Ganges between Rastrakuta, Pratihara and Pala. It was to be an ideal situation for the Muslim invasion.
As of 823, Pala and Rastrakuta, and some smaller allies, were fighting a desperate war against Pratihara. Pratihara was winning, thanks to good leadership of Nagabhata II. As Abdullah gathered his forces in Sind, al-Mamun sent a messenger to Amoghavarsa I, leader of Rastrakuta. An alliance was agreed upon, and Amoghavarsa almost brought about the Muslim conquest of India...
Oh, and sorry about the length, or the lack thereof. The main point of this chapter is to provide the setting for the next two chapters that I hope you people will find more exciting...
IC:
Chapter Sixteen.
While the Western Caliphate, still rebuilding its power after the disaster in Saxony, was content to live in peace with the other “people of the book” (and everybody else, really), the Eastern Caliphate, led by al-Mamun but also increasingly by his advisor and general Abdullah wanted to make its position firmer after the failure to reconquer Egypt and, slightly later, Syria. The obvious way to do it was a Jihad, or at least that was what Abdullah recommended.
But whom to attack? Byzantine Empire – strong and united, Western Caliphate – Muslim (and was proficient at hit-and-run harassment), the Khazars controlled several strategic points in a mountain range, which would allow them to fend back the Arabs. The solution was noticed to the east – in India.
India circa 800 AD consisted of many little states, and a few larger ones – namely, Gurjara-Pratihara, Rastrakuta, Pala and Pandya. Of these, Gurjara-Pratihara was the strongest, in theory, but also somehow unstable. A power struggle was going on for the Ganges between Rastrakuta, Pratihara and Pala. It was to be an ideal situation for the Muslim invasion.
As of 823, Pala and Rastrakuta, and some smaller allies, were fighting a desperate war against Pratihara. Pratihara was winning, thanks to good leadership of Nagabhata II. As Abdullah gathered his forces in Sind, al-Mamun sent a messenger to Amoghavarsa I, leader of Rastrakuta. An alliance was agreed upon, and Amoghavarsa almost brought about the Muslim conquest of India...
das
Regeneration In Process
Chapter Seventeen.
In early 824, Abdullah’s forces first skirmished with the Pratiharan allied forces at Pattala. Nagabhata received the reports of the “Sindians” attacking his tiny allies in the west. Pretty much, he ignored it, having to deal with pro-Pala rulers to his north.
It was then that Rastrakuta reorganized its forces, and launched yet another offensive, noticing that its foes were distracted as well. Finally, Abdullah decided to strike in August 824. Having won several skirmishes in Multan, he attracted the Pratiharan attention to the region. A small army, complete with a few war elephants, marched there from Punjab to face this threat. That was a part of Abdullah’s plan. He sent swift Bedouin Camelry to cross the Thar Desert and raid Pratihara’s heartland. Meanwhile, his main army faced the Hindu forces at Pakpattan, and triumphed, albeit with heavy casualties.
Then the situation got worse. For the Arabs.
Defeated once again, and having lost its leader, Rastrakuta noticed that the “Sindians” were much more powerful then expected. Under the pretext of “saving the Hindu civilization” (and with the reason of saving itself from destruction at the hands of whoever wins the war), Rastrakuta, later followed by its allies apart from Pala, allied with Pratihara against the Arabs.
The camel raids, meanwhile, harassed and eventually defeated a hastily-assembled force at Ujjain in March 825. Abdullah himself, having left his reinforcements in Multan, moved rapidly to Gujarat, one of the most crucial parts of the Pratihara India.
At Khamblat, the Pratihara-Rastrakuta force that tried to save Gujarat was crushed utterly. On the bright side for Indians, the Bedouin Raiders received heavy casualties at Kalyani in April 827, and had to fall back.
Gujarat was secured by the Arabs by 830. A more or less unified Hindu army assembled in Pratihara, to face the Arab onslaught. In December 831, the two armies finally fought in a decisive battle at Rathambhor.
In early 824, Abdullah’s forces first skirmished with the Pratiharan allied forces at Pattala. Nagabhata received the reports of the “Sindians” attacking his tiny allies in the west. Pretty much, he ignored it, having to deal with pro-Pala rulers to his north.
It was then that Rastrakuta reorganized its forces, and launched yet another offensive, noticing that its foes were distracted as well. Finally, Abdullah decided to strike in August 824. Having won several skirmishes in Multan, he attracted the Pratiharan attention to the region. A small army, complete with a few war elephants, marched there from Punjab to face this threat. That was a part of Abdullah’s plan. He sent swift Bedouin Camelry to cross the Thar Desert and raid Pratihara’s heartland. Meanwhile, his main army faced the Hindu forces at Pakpattan, and triumphed, albeit with heavy casualties.
Then the situation got worse. For the Arabs.
Defeated once again, and having lost its leader, Rastrakuta noticed that the “Sindians” were much more powerful then expected. Under the pretext of “saving the Hindu civilization” (and with the reason of saving itself from destruction at the hands of whoever wins the war), Rastrakuta, later followed by its allies apart from Pala, allied with Pratihara against the Arabs.
The camel raids, meanwhile, harassed and eventually defeated a hastily-assembled force at Ujjain in March 825. Abdullah himself, having left his reinforcements in Multan, moved rapidly to Gujarat, one of the most crucial parts of the Pratihara India.
At Khamblat, the Pratihara-Rastrakuta force that tried to save Gujarat was crushed utterly. On the bright side for Indians, the Bedouin Raiders received heavy casualties at Kalyani in April 827, and had to fall back.
Gujarat was secured by the Arabs by 830. A more or less unified Hindu army assembled in Pratihara, to face the Arab onslaught. In December 831, the two armies finally fought in a decisive battle at Rathambhor.
Vanadorn
Motorcycling Paladin
Are you going to have the sweeping alternate affect the entirety of EurAsia? Would it definitively have done so? Or are you using your knowledge of history and the personalities of the time respond posteffect to the outside influences your Alt is sweeping? You have a nice grasp of history, reflected well in your story.
Also, don't get despondant if no one responds, just keep your eye on the view count and watch it ratchet up. Take a look at mine for example - 14,000 view, some 300-400 posts that aren't me adding to the story - not a big return on investment normally. Rest assured, people are reading and enjoying. Many people like to just lurk and leave.
V
Also, don't get despondant if no one responds, just keep your eye on the view count and watch it ratchet up. Take a look at mine for example - 14,000 view, some 300-400 posts that aren't me adding to the story - not a big return on investment normally. Rest assured, people are reading and enjoying. Many people like to just lurk and leave.
V
das
Regeneration In Process
Well, quite obviously, the effects of one change will spread everywhere. However it's rather the second version. I considered altering the results of the Talas River battle (thus expanding the changes to China early on), btw, but decided that there is already enough of things happening Europe, and besides, it is not too likely for the battle to go differently.
Oh, I do notice that there are views. But, it feels sort of lonely in this thread with most posts being either mine, either yours or occasional feedback from other people.
I will have to take a small break soon, not much time and I need to plan out and research on what will soon be happening in the Western Europe (in the ATL, ofcourse). All I could say is that there will be an epic conflict there soon. And not just one, at that.
---
Chapter Eighteen.
The Battle of Rathambhor was also known as the “Battle of Elephants”, because that both sides employed war elephants in their forces. The Indian forces were slightly inferior to the Arabs in training, but their force was considerably larger then the Arab one. Arabs, meanwhile, also had the zeal of Jihad to improve their moral and the charismatic (if not always brilliant) leadership of Abdullah.
The battle started with a “typical” skirmish, with two armies colliding with each other and fighting in a line of battle. The use of elephants, however, allowed the Arabs to break the Indian center. For a moment, the victory seemed close, but two events undid the possible Arab conquest of India.
First of all, Abdullah was killed by a stray arrow.
Secondly, Rastrakuta reinforcements arrived and stopped the enemy breakthrough. However, the Indian forces were exhausted, and the Arabs managed to pull off a marginal victory, forcing the enemy to withdraw. It was a Pyrrhic victory, though.
The Caliph realized that quickly, and started negotiations, pretending that he still had forces nearby, kept in the reserve, but would prefer to use them against a rather nasty rebellion rather then waste more men in India. His terms were generous, he was simply to keep all his gains. The Indians, having lost many men as well, had no alternative but to agree. Nevertheless, Muslim expansion further into India was prevented. Indian culture now was fiercely resistant to Islamic influences, thanks in part due to the Rastrakutan epic poem “Marathambor” (OOC: anyone speaks Indian around here? If so, can one please give me a better name for the poem?).
Gurjara-Pratihara suffered the most from this war, and soon fell into obscurity. Its opponents lost many men as well. However, a new power was rising. Chandalla. The power that will one day unite India...
Oh, I do notice that there are views. But, it feels sort of lonely in this thread with most posts being either mine, either yours or occasional feedback from other people.
I will have to take a small break soon, not much time and I need to plan out and research on what will soon be happening in the Western Europe (in the ATL, ofcourse). All I could say is that there will be an epic conflict there soon. And not just one, at that.
---
Chapter Eighteen.
The Battle of Rathambhor was also known as the “Battle of Elephants”, because that both sides employed war elephants in their forces. The Indian forces were slightly inferior to the Arabs in training, but their force was considerably larger then the Arab one. Arabs, meanwhile, also had the zeal of Jihad to improve their moral and the charismatic (if not always brilliant) leadership of Abdullah.
The battle started with a “typical” skirmish, with two armies colliding with each other and fighting in a line of battle. The use of elephants, however, allowed the Arabs to break the Indian center. For a moment, the victory seemed close, but two events undid the possible Arab conquest of India.
First of all, Abdullah was killed by a stray arrow.
Secondly, Rastrakuta reinforcements arrived and stopped the enemy breakthrough. However, the Indian forces were exhausted, and the Arabs managed to pull off a marginal victory, forcing the enemy to withdraw. It was a Pyrrhic victory, though.
The Caliph realized that quickly, and started negotiations, pretending that he still had forces nearby, kept in the reserve, but would prefer to use them against a rather nasty rebellion rather then waste more men in India. His terms were generous, he was simply to keep all his gains. The Indians, having lost many men as well, had no alternative but to agree. Nevertheless, Muslim expansion further into India was prevented. Indian culture now was fiercely resistant to Islamic influences, thanks in part due to the Rastrakutan epic poem “Marathambor” (OOC: anyone speaks Indian around here? If so, can one please give me a better name for the poem?).
Gurjara-Pratihara suffered the most from this war, and soon fell into obscurity. Its opponents lost many men as well. However, a new power was rising. Chandalla. The power that will one day unite India...
das
Regeneration In Process
Three ready chapters? Check.
Any readers that are REALLY reading this? Unknown.
Quite frankly, I suspect that most views are incidental.
Any readers that are REALLY reading this? Unknown.
Quite frankly, I suspect that most views are incidental.
North King
blech
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 18,165
I lost track of which chapter I was on, but I'm still reading. 
das
Regeneration In Process
OOC: That was uncharacteristically fast.
Next chapter from here would involve the beginnings of an epic conflict elsewhere in Europe.
IC:
Chapter Nineteen.
822 AD was an eventful year in Western Europe. It was the year Vitukind, the Emperor of Saxony, died.
Saxony was never a particularly centralized empire, rather a tribal confederation like that of the Huns. Just like with the Huns, Saxonnian Empire did not outlive Vitukind. Albeit at first, he wanted to establish a dynasty, most of his sons were too incompetent to rule that empire, and none of his followers he would trust (becoming paranoid at old age) the Empire. As he lay in his sickbed, he divided Saxony into Saxonnia and Franconia (the border being the Rhine), giving the power to his two oldest sons, Aberung and Sigemund respectively.
The problem was that Aberung was insane and Sigemund was very cruel. Some would later say that Vitukind was disappointed with the Saxon chieftains, and decided to make life very difficult for those who would want to pick his empire up for him. More likely is that he named them to defy everybody else, though.
The results were seen immediately. Frankish peasants and citizens, who lived bad enough under Vitukind, rebelled almost immediately after Sigemund and his warriors randomly slaughtered some of the Franks in a small city of Paris and raped their wives. It became the spark to lit the fuse. After just one year, Franconia was successfully in the hands of the rebel Frankish leader, Umbert I.
Saxonnia survived a little longer, rapidly disintegrating into tribal factions and finally collapsing into anarchy by 825. Vitukinds death wish changed history forever.
Next chapter from here would involve the beginnings of an epic conflict elsewhere in Europe.
IC:
Chapter Nineteen.
822 AD was an eventful year in Western Europe. It was the year Vitukind, the Emperor of Saxony, died.
Saxony was never a particularly centralized empire, rather a tribal confederation like that of the Huns. Just like with the Huns, Saxonnian Empire did not outlive Vitukind. Albeit at first, he wanted to establish a dynasty, most of his sons were too incompetent to rule that empire, and none of his followers he would trust (becoming paranoid at old age) the Empire. As he lay in his sickbed, he divided Saxony into Saxonnia and Franconia (the border being the Rhine), giving the power to his two oldest sons, Aberung and Sigemund respectively.
The problem was that Aberung was insane and Sigemund was very cruel. Some would later say that Vitukind was disappointed with the Saxon chieftains, and decided to make life very difficult for those who would want to pick his empire up for him. More likely is that he named them to defy everybody else, though.
The results were seen immediately. Frankish peasants and citizens, who lived bad enough under Vitukind, rebelled almost immediately after Sigemund and his warriors randomly slaughtered some of the Franks in a small city of Paris and raped their wives. It became the spark to lit the fuse. After just one year, Franconia was successfully in the hands of the rebel Frankish leader, Umbert I.
Saxonnia survived a little longer, rapidly disintegrating into tribal factions and finally collapsing into anarchy by 825. Vitukinds death wish changed history forever.
