Bz3 - Always War Crusade

Originally posted by Earp
Good Job Snap! :goodjob:

I think we need to continue to improve our defenses. We need more workers and catapults. I think we should build a city E,NE of Tsingtao on the coast by the game. We could also possibly build another city S of Tsigntao or W of Beijing.

Should we build a fortress on our iron? Has anyone tried to attack it yet? If we get another leader, should we build the Hanging Gardens or wait and try to get Sun Tzu's?

Good Luck ND!
Click to expand...

When we have some workers we should definitely build a fortress on that iron. We may not need it now but by the time the fortress gets built we may be seeing MDIs. We will need it then.

Yes, we should jam another city there. Since TsingTao has the Fp the citu will benefit from it.

IMHo, we should use the next leader for an army, and the leader after that for the HE. Sun Tzu is too far away now.

[offtopic]



I do not know what happened in this game, but I started a AW myself, and in Deity too, as the Chinese. I have just learnt Monarchy, and I am fighting off the American swords, Mongol horses and Russian bowmen, simultaneously with ease.

I have leader rushed, the TGL, the FP, bult two armies and the HE by now, so at least I am assured that I will last till Riders. And once I get to riders the AI will have a helluva time to take me down (if at all). Once I have a write up for that game I will post it as a story in the stories section.

In fact the AI is so beat that they will easily give me peace for peace (no demanding of cities for peace as it is in this game).

I plan on winning that, but do not hope to :)


[/offtopic]
 
Yeah, I think luck has a lot to do with AW at this level. We shouldn't attribute it all to bad luck, though.
 
Okay, I agree that our next leader should be used to build an army. What do we want to put in the army? Spears, Swordsmen, Horsemen, a combination?
 
As for army, I think the first one should be horses or swords. We need to get a victory, and if we put defensive units in it the AI is likely never to attack it. I recently had a game where the AI wouldn't attack a pike army I had until it got tanks.

As for goals, my guess would be to finish up our defenses (more cats), continue improving our lands (workers) and try to keep ahold of our cities. If things calm down enough to get some more libraries that's key too.

As for a little longer term, I think if we can maintain this defensive posture we are nearly ready to take some land by force from the Koreans. The Koreans still haven't shown any unit better than spears or archers, and a massed horse attack from Tatung may be able to get us some new territory. Of course, be careful with this - if we happen to run afoul of a stack of Samurai (or one attacks us) while we are on this crusade things will go south quickly. No indication that the AI has Chivalry, but they must be close.
 
Originally posted by NewDestroyer
can u guys give me some pointers as to what goals i should shoot for?
Click to expand...

Pointers:-

(a) Head off all attacks. Try not to lose any ground.

(b) Keep building catapaults, horses, swords and workers as much as you can. Follow Earp's guideline above as to which city should build what.

(c) Found another city around TsingTao as discussed above.

(d) Keep researching at the fastest rate possible without running any major deficits.

@Earp: I think we should build a sword army. The AI will never attack a sword army.


EDIT: Snap types faster than me. :)
 
I think a sword army is a good idea. It has the best defense and offense stats for the units we have available.

Here are some suggestions.

Get some leaders. :D Leaders always make your turns look good.

I would use your turns to build workers, catapults, swordsmen, horsemen, and one or two settlers.
If they haven't been built yet, build libraries in Beijing, Canton, Tsingtao, Xinjian, and Chengdu. These cities are all producing 7+ gpt and therefore atleast 2 gpt for sci. Libraries are not worth building in the our other cities yet.
 
Most of you all probably already know this info, but here is an interesting thread on Great Leaders

Here is the summary from the FAQ.
  • When your elite unit wins a battle, there is 1/16 chance to become a GL. Heroic Epic changes this to 1/12. The chance is halved for elite units winning battles defensively.
  • Contrary to popular belief, having the militaristic trait only doubles the promotion chance, not the chance for a leader. However being militaristic means you will get more elite units, and thus have more opportunities for leaders.
  • No GL will appear from fighting Barbarians, only against another civs units.
  • No Gl will appear from wins with an army, or from wins with a sea or air unit.
  • You can only have a maximum of one GL at a time.
  • An elite unit that has produced a leader cannot produce another one. It can get promoted again and then produce a leader again if it is upgraded.
 
I'll take it. I'll try to play it sometime this afternoon.
Basically do what you said?
(a) Head off all attacks. Try not to lose any ground.

(b) Keep building catapaults, horses, swords and workers as much as you can. Follow Earp's guideline above as to which city should build what.

(c) Found another city around TsingTao as discussed above.

(d) Keep researching at the fastest rate possible without running any major deficits.

@Earp: I think we should build a sword army. The AI will never attack a sword army.
Click to expand...
?
 
SAAM, that sounds like the plan.

I would build a library in Tsingtao when the Library in Beijing finishes.

Looking at the last screenshot, I would shift some of our forces south. I think Tatung looks like it has plenty of forces to deal with its threats while Yangchow could use some more troops.

I would move all off our catapults to Tatung and Yangchow as they are built.

It would be nice to build a road between Tatung and Yangchow. Build it as far back from the front lines as possible.

Wait for the swords and archers to get next to a city and then use our horses to attack them. Do not attack them with horses when they are two squares away. Attacking when they are next to the city allows the horse to retreat back into the city after attacking. It also allows you to soften them up with catapults before attacking. Only use the swords to attack stacks so that they stay in the city after winning the battle.
 
okay, im on T4 and I have good news and bad news.
Bad news: T2, Yangchow was raized by the Japanese (using Med Inf :shudder: )
Good News: While attacking Cheju, Sun Tzu emerged from battle. He's going to build an army in Tatung which I will fill with our remaining Vet Swords.

Also- We lost iron in the raizing, so I built a settler and I'm sending back down there.
 
Ouch. :(

So now we are two cities away from the iron and we are being attacked by japanese MI (soon to be Samurai). Ouch again!
 
BZ3: A chance at redemption.
IBT: Check everything. I see what Snap means by the heat at Yangchow.
T1: That 5/5 Japanese sword kills our Yangchow spear. Tsintao: Sword->Sword. Anyang: Catapult->Catapult. Shantung: Rax->Spear. People expand palace. Babylon builds Sun Tzu. I swear (Loudly) in Latin, telling my parents its only the Cataline Discords. 4/4 Horse v 3/3 Archer. Wins, 2 damage. 5/5 Horse v 3/3 Archer. Wins, 2 damage. 5/5 Horse v 3/3 Archer. Wins, 2 damage. 5/5 Horse v 3/3 Archer. Wins, no damage. 4/4 Horse v 3/3 Archer. Wins, 2 damamge.
T2: A moment of Silence for the brave citizens of Yandchow, who perished in the flames of the Japanese Swords. Nanking: Horse->Spear. Xinjian: Worker->Horse Tientsin: Catapult->Spear. York builds Hanging Gardens. We no longer have Iron... I switch Chengdu over to a settler to go resettle the area. Crap... I see Japanese Med Inf. 5/5 Horse v 3/3 Archer. Wins, 1 damage.
T3: Beijing: Library->Horse. New Hangchow: Spear->Horse. 4/5 Horse v 3/3 Archer. Wins, 2 damage.
T4: Shanghai: Catapult->Spear. Canton: Sword->Spear Tsingtao:Sword->Horse Chengdu: Settler->Horse. 5/5 Horse v 3/3 Spear. Wins, 3 damage. As the rider of the horse dismounts, he removes his helmet and a shining beacon of light emerges with a heavenly chorus. It is Sun Tzu! 5/5 Horse v 3/3 Spear. Wins, no damage. 4/4 Sword v 3/3 Archer. Wins, 2 damage
T5: Nanking: Spear->Horse. Tientsin: Spear->Horse. Paoting: Rax->Spear. Sun Tzu builds army in new Hangchow. It will be filled with 3 swords next turn. 5/5 Horse v 3/3 Spear Redlined, retreats
T6: Med Inf are attacking RedDot.. RedDot has one defender left. Beijing:Horse->Spear. Army is created (see Army name for sarcasm)
T7: RedDot is raized by those darn Med Inf.. (I hate defending aganst them with spears). Canton: Spear->Horse. Macao: Catapult->Spear. Anyang: Catapult->Spear Kaifeng:Catapult->Spear
T8: Nil
T9: Beijing: Spear->Horse. Xinjian:Horse->Horse Shantung:Spear-> Horse 5/5 Horse v 3/3 Archer. Wins. 5/5 Horse v 3/3 Archer. Wins.
T10: Shanghai Riots (oops). Nanking: Horse->Horse Chengdu Horse->Horse. Our 12/12 Army v a 5/5 sword (Epic Reasons). Wins, but 3 health... Heh... [Optimisim]Least we can build the Epic[/Optimisim] 4/4 Horse v 3/3 Spear Wins, 2 damage.
End of turns. Unlike Hangchow the 1st, the 2 cities destroyed couldnt have really been prevented. The Japanese have Med Inf. We have no iron. I'm handing this off with hope.

Epic can be built in 15 in Beijing
The Save (Army is at 3/12 health... Might be killed...)
 
Originally posted by Stuck_As_a_Mac
BZ3: A chance at redemption.
Click to expand...

You played well (although no redemption was necessary you have been redeemed :) ) It was a raw deal that was dealt to you and you did the best you could.

As an aside, as far as possible I never allow knights and MI attack. I always attack them. Their attack is great but their defense sucks. That's the reason I rarely fear and lose a war when the enemy is attacking with things like Immortals, Knights and MI. The only time I will lose is when I am overwhelmed with numbers (like this one is going to be, I predict :( )

The only unit that I truly fear being up against is a Samurai. (This is like a knight and musket combination working together).
 
Why are you always attacking units that have full health? Especially archers and other slow units. They shouldn't be attacked until they're right next to the city. And then all those catapults you've been building can reach out and damage them. That's a critical skill for surviving AW. You have to have an amazing kill ratio. Even 2 attack vs. 1 defense isn't enough...you need the extra oomph of artillery.

Same comment as Betazed about MDI. They should be attacked, not defended against whenever possible. 2 attack vs. 2 defense is much better than being on the defending end of 2 defense and 4 attack. Even with walls, you're still hosed that way.

Again, catapults are key. Attacking a one hp MDI (after a bunch of 'pults attack) with a horse is a nearly-guaranteed win. That's the kind of battles you've got to be fighting.

Now, I understand that much of this is new to people who aren't used to ancient combat, have never done AW before, etc. But the concepts are critical to survival, so I suggest you try to learn them.

To those who have heard this before and/or seen it in action, ignore the preaching....

Arathorn

P.S. I also fear move-3 knights -- riders and ansars, because I can't see them coming and they hit from forever away. Cavalry and derivatives are like this, too, but they rarely bother me as much. Maybe the AI doesn't build enough of 'em? Or I just expect the casualties then and it doesn't surprise me? I dunno. But I fear more than samurai....
 
Originally posted by Arathorn

To those who have heard this before and/or seen it in action, ignore the preaching....
Click to expand...

Preaching and advise always welcome. :)

@ND: There is no hurry, but if you cannot take it today let us know. Maybe, Earp can take it today and you can play tomorrow. Whatever suits you all.
 
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