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C&C universe civs

Discussion in 'Civ4 - New Civilizations' started by Zeta Nexus, Mar 8, 2021.

  1. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Deity

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    I have been nourishing the idea of creating two "What if" civs from C&C universe, namely Brotherhood of Nod and Yuri.

    @topsecret has kindly created the two required LHs for the civs... which also inspired @PPQ_Purple to start making Nod unit models.

    This thread is about the creation of these civs including the related stuff. A place for PPQ to post his fine creations. It's open for all sorts of brainstorming too.

    I am planning to create two versions of both civs: one for BtS and one for CoM.
     
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  2. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Deity

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    Last edited: Mar 10, 2021
  3. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Deity

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  4. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Deity

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    reserved....
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
  5. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Deity

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    reserved....
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
  6. Sword_Of_Geddon

    Sword_Of_Geddon Mysterious Jungle Warrior

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    This is gonna be awesome
     
  7. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    As far as city names go I think we should start off with known Nod sites from the original game and go from there. I went to the wiki and tried to dig up anything I could find that might fit that bill. This is what I found.
    Spoiler :

    1. Sarajevo - Original Main temple

    2. Cairo - Kane's Pyramid and HQ during Tiberium Sun

    3. Benghazi - HQ of Hassan's Elite Guard in North Africa. Presumably a major NOD site in the region before their betrayal.

    4. Unknown location on an island off Honduras with an ancient pyramid on it. I don't think that an equivalent exists IRL. But it was a major HQ in south america so we should consider something from that region.

    5. Cape Town, South Africa - The main Temple of Nod in Subsaharan Africa, established once NOD wins the first game. As is of course the one and only true outcome. I would rate this one somewhat high.

    6. Nod had a base in Nigeria and Gabon and control over both countries during the first game. And they are canonically some of the first states to openly side with NOD. So we might want to consider a site in each. Maybe their capitals?

    7. The Baltic states and all of Eastern Europe are canonically under NOD control in the first game and have pro-Nod governments. So their capitals might be a good pick to fill up the list.

    8. Mexico, Peru, Honduras and several other South American countries are also under Nod control. They too provide candidates.

    9. By the end of the first game NOD seems to control all of Africa. And this does not seem to have changed in the second in spite of the bad end. So African countries are presumably on the table as well.

    10. Temple Prime - Name for the main Nod temple and HQ.


    Aside from this there are a number of sites from both the original games that are named as being locations of NOD bases or facilities. Some of them are just army bases though. But I included all of them that were original, as in not stuff established in occupied territory.
    Spoiler :

    1. Abilene, Texas - A nod toxin production facility and base. A site of questionable importance but it was big enough for the MC to be called on to deal with it.
      Either way potentially something for the tail end of the list.

    2. There is a mission in the first game in Bertoua,Cameroon where Nod invades and establishes a base near a major Tiberium field. Presumably this base still exists under their control and produces resources.
      This is another potential candidate for the tail end of the list.

    3. Xai-Xai, Mozambique - Secret NOD research facility. This is another potential candidate for the tail end of the list.

    4. Pärnu, Estonia holds a major Tiberium Refinery and military base in the first game.

    5. Ostrava, Czech Republic - A known NOD military base from the first game.

    6. Niš, Yugoslavia - Known NOD Bio research lab and military base from the first game.

    7. There are several bases from the GDI campaign located in Mexico. Tampico - Tamaulipas, Torreón - Coahuila, Minatitlán - Veracruz and Ciudad - Juárez. They seem to be of low-medium importance other than as tactically important bases. But they are in the campaign so I listed them. Not sure if we want to include strait up army bases as city names but we are desperate for cities.


    Also, note that I only went as far as Firestorm. As far as I am concerned the cannon ends there. I am not making that a requirement for anyone else on this project, of course, But that's where I draw the line with my work.

    *******************
    Also, we need to consider what Kane should get. I am thinking basically what his personality is and the things that come to mind are:
    1. He is very into espionage and trickery.
    2. He would probably not like to trade much as he wants all the Tiberium for him self.
    3. He is very pro science.
    4. He is aggressive militarily.
    5. NOD is a religious cult so spiritual is potentially on the table here.

    So his leader traits and AI should reflect that. Maybe something like Aggressive + Spiritual with an AI that focuses on Intelligence and research and dislikes trading and open borders?
     
  8. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    Also, in the spirit of Command and Conquer main menus here is a sneak peek at my work.
    Spoiler :

    Related.JPG
    Anti Tank.JPG
    Infantry.JPG
     
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  9. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    And some more on the SAM Infantry.
    SAM INFANTRY.png

    The weapon in his hand is the main rifle from the original Tiberium Dawn game. Since it's a SMG in real life and it was used by NOD in game it made sense for me to make it here.
     
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  10. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Deity

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    About Nod's city list I have a couple of thoughts to share.

    Lore & compatibility
    • C&C Lore: The Brotherhood of Nod is hinted as an ancient organization, Kane may be Cain who killed his brother and Nod may refer to the land of Nod/exile.
    • Civ4 Lore: Players usually start their game in the Ancient era, so I don't think that it is desirable that your freshly founded clay house cities feel like ones that are just taken over from other civs by a global organization.
    • Compatibility: I have in mind that civ should be easily playable with mods that add a lot more civs than BtS (like MegaPack or CivGold). So I would like to avoid or at least delay the stealing of city names from other civs - especially capitals.
    So I was thinking about using Hebrew names to fill the first part of the pool:

    Nod is just an obvious choice to be an ancient capital for me. If you use Dynamic Civ Names mód it sounds natural to me: Nod Empire, Kingdom of Nod, Nod Republic, Federation of Nod, etc.

    Then the descendents of Cain:
    Enoch
    Irad
    Mehujael
    Methusael
    Lamech
    Adah
    Jabel
    Jubal
    Zillah
    Tubalcain
    Naamah

    That's 12 names so far.
    Maybe we can make up some Nod ish city names in Hebrew (or just simply in English?)
    Beth-Nachash (House of Serpent)
    Ak'rav-Heykhal (Scorpion Temple)
    Shaw'khar-Yad (Black Hand)
    Tsedeq-Eg'rof (Fist of Justice)
    Surely we can come up with more like these if we want to :)

    If we have 20 "ancient nodish" names in the pool, than we can add the well known Nod locations from the game, like Sarajevo and Cairo.

    What do you think?
     
  11. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Deity

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  12. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    I am undecided. Your logic is sound enough. I guess it all depends on how you look at things. The only thing I have a firm opinion on is that, if you do go that way, Enoch needs to be the capital as it is the one city name associated with Kane in the Bible.

    On a related note, my current work on infantry is half done. I basically have the units designed but I am working to try and make the AA and AT infantry more distinct from one another without deviating too much from both being Tiberium Sun Rocket Infantry models. I tried various combinations on shoulder and knee pads but I don't feel they are distinct enough. I might have to go and design a different looking rocket launcher in the end which I loathe to do.

    Here is what I mean.
    INFANTRY 2.jpg

    The problem really is how to make two units look similar enough to be recognizable as the same original but also distinct enough that the player can tell at a glance which is which. I am open to suggestions.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2021
  13. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Deity

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    After a night of sleep I think we could drop direct Biblical references altogether and work with crafted names only. Partially because I agree with the "Enoch" thing. Also some of the descendents in the list are women - it was common to name a city a man but not a woman. And I also want to keep a rather distant and obscure connection to the Bible, for several reasons, e.g. "Let players decide what they believe about Kane and his origin? Is he really Cain or is that just a myth he does not deny? Is he an ancient alien?" After all we are not trying to create a new canon.
    I am still leaning to want "Nod" as the name of the capital but it may change.

    Errr... are those 2 or 3 different units? I think I see your problem.

    I agree but for the traits I think I would rather go for Aggressive + Charismatic. At least this is what I would do for the CoM version.
    Do we want an other leader for Nod? Like Anton Slavik? I don't know if he could be different enough.:confused:
     
  14. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    Either way you slice it he claims to be Kane and we know for a fact that there are archeological ruins from the ancient era showing Nod symbolism (seen in Renegade). So the brotherhood did definitively exist since Biblical times. And if you want to justify biblical names you easily can simply by pointing out that someone claiming to be a biblical figure would naturally use biblical names as part of his propaganda. So I would not be strictly opposed to a few biblical references here and there. Especially since Enoch would be a neat Easter egg for those in the know.

    But I agree that we should not go all in on it. That would be too much. So maybe we keep Enoch and a couple others and sprinkle the list with names like Temple Prime and Pyramid of Nod?

    Wouldn't it be a bit odd to have both the country and the capital named the same? Especially if you want to include this into a mod that uses BUG and thus dynamic civ names. (I think that's a BUG thing, might just be a RiFE thing) Like can you imagine "The Republic of the Brotherhood of NOD."? I'd much rather have the Civ called just Nod in game and than have that morph.

    Exactly. I am still trying to think up what to do with that one.

    If anyone, and I mean anyone, has any suggestions do post so.

    I am not sure what charismatic does in your version so I can't comment. All I can do is lay out my reasoning for spiritual and you tell me what you think.

    My logic for spiritual is several fold.
    1. It's undeniable that Kane is very heavily into making Nod a religion. You see that everywhere from him claiming him self to be a biblical figure to the overt religious tones of NOD to the fanaticism of its followers. No matter what you think about the veracity of its claims it's just very hard not to say NOD is a cult.
    2. The ability to switch civics without anarchy would be a good defining trait for a pragmatic cult leader.
    3. It would canonically line up with the fact that the Brotherhood always ends up in anarchy the moment he vanishes.

    But that's just my thinking here.

    Either way, a realistic case can be made for both Charismatic, Spiritual, Aggressive and Imperialist as far as Kane is concerned.

    If you can find a leaderhead, sure.
     
  15. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Deity

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    Spoiler :


    Excuse me?


    So?
    I agree...
    ...and I am convinced :lol:

    I am not exactly into the idea but... we can even create a new trait exclusively for him that is a mixture of the for above. :rolleyes:
     
  16. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    Not really something I'd be for to be honest. If for no other reason than because it'd make the whole thing a mod rather than a civ you can just drop in. And if we start going down that rabbit hole well...

    I was just pointing out that he is a complicated character that sort of ticks the boxes for any combination of those depending on the game and your interpretation. Although I hold that spiritual is the one that is present throughout all of the games where as the others wax and vane. That's what makes him my favorite C&C character and really my favorite male video game character ever. He is just the coolest.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2021
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  17. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    Well I didn't really want to do this but I took the plunge and took inspiration from Renegade. The art style in that game can be... questionable. But it is in between the first two games timeline wise so it fits my requirements. And I think I manged to marry it's art style with the proper Tiberium Sun one decently enough. Introducing from left to right: AT Infantry, SAM Infantry, Regular Infantry
    Civ4ScreenShot0031.JPG

    Civ4ScreenShot0032.JPG Civ4ScreenShot0033.JPG Infantry.JPG

    Note that these are work in progress and still have bugs.


    Also, as far as UU is concerned I would suggest the following:
    Black Hand
    Replaces:
    Paratrooper
    Stats: Same as paratrooper except 75% evade interception chance
    Logic: The black hand are stealth infiltrators so it makes sense that they would be able to infiltrate (the closest thing to it in CIV are paratroopers) and do so stealthily.
    Gameplay role: Since you can drop these into enemy lines even if you don't have decent air superiority you can use them much more freely to raid, steal workers or resources and generally do damage to an enemies economy than you could with regular paratroopers. So they are like a late game raider unit. But also just a really good paratrooper that works well with stealth bombers to make airborne attacks more viable even without air superiority.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2021
  18. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    Some more prototype renders:
    Civ4ScreenShot0035.JPG

    This time a tick tank.
     
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  19. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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  20. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    I've been thinking and have come up with some suggestions for city names. Here they are in no particular order:
    Spoiler :

    Enoch,
    Nod,
    Temple Prime,
    Hand of Nod,
    Fist of Nod,
    Pyramid of Nod / (alternatively Nod Pyramid),
    Temple of Nod,
    Obelisk of Light,
    Temple of Divination (alternatively Pyramid of Divination),
    Temple of Ascension (alternatively Pyramid of Ascension),
    Cabal,
    Genesis Pit
     

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