C2C - Building Review Thread

[Faustmouse]

Welcome back Mr Azure, you appear just in the right time

If you don't have enough stuff to read right now, these topics might interest you as well:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=435974&page=17
Post 322 following.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=526893

Sadly, my time is very limited at the moment, but I will at least try to start a new c2c game soon.
The first one was just an idea, but the second one has an actually working demo (as far as i remember).

 

[Azurian]

2 prehistoric era buildings that seem off

By the time unhealthiness goes away, you most likely already have cooking. So this building is pretty much worthless.

Fire Dance:
10 Fire and 3 pollution for a happiness and small culture bonus. The penalties dont make sense here, because you've already built the fire. And the rewards dont even come close to overcoming the drawbacks.

Im not a fan in general of prehistoric era pollution because it is too long before you can do anything about it, but the pollution numbers are too high anyway. A fire pit is going to have a negligible impact on pollution. Big bonfires I could see maybe a +1 pollution.

Will look into this.

Day Care Center should replace Childcare Hut.

Yes it should!

Nature Dance. As far as I can see the Celebrity can only be settled. This should be changed to artist perhaps.

Will look into it.

Yeah!


Harems. Harems are wifes and sex slaves of a powerful man. The building os obsolete at Theology, but in reality, harems still exists in some muslims country. Maybe just rename the building?


Nature Dance. Turn a citizen into Celebrity doesn't work. And a prehistoric celebrity?

Harems is upoosed to be replaced by Brothels, will look into it. Nature Dance will probably be remade.

I posted these in a different thread earlier, but the modders who introduced these buildings either didn't notice it or have went inactive for the moment... I'd still like to get these buildings fixed, so, the following two buildings are bugged...



Branding Hut - Technically not an error, but a problem with the choice of prerequisites. This building requires the "Fire Pit" building as a prerequisite, however it does not become obsolete until the discovery of Medicine, nor is it replaced by a superior building that performs the same function. This means it cannot be built in new cities after the construction of the "Great Bonfire" National Wonder, which constructs a free Bonfire (the upgraded version of the Fire Pit) in all cities.


Regards,
Northstar

Will look into it.

 

[Arakhor]

I'm very much in favour of having building upgrades/replacements. It helps to reduce the sheer amount of buildings available, for one thing.

 

[Azurian]

I'm very much in favour of having building upgrades/replacements. It helps to reduce the sheer amount of buildings available, for one thing.

I agree 100 percent, and have a project planted (Codename : Architect) to optimize buildings by finding ones that need a replacing path or making them obsolete.

I haven't been in Civfanatics for almost a year so I'm catching up with the latest changes first and doing minor changes first with the Hydro Approval System.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I haven't been in Civfanatics for almost a year so I'm catching up with the latest changes first and doing minor changes first with the Hydro Approval System.

If you do go though things can you do them in say small blocks of 20 to 30? I don't mind going though things like this I just get a bit overwhelmed when you post thing in like the 100's at a time.

 

[Azurian]

If you do go though things can you do them in say small blocks of 20 to 30? I don't mind going though things like this I just get a bit overwhelmed when you post thing in like the 100's at a time.

Absolutely.
I plan to take my time, I have limited hours a day to read forum and code because of school and social life.

 

[Yudishtira]

Yes great to see you back, el Azurian.

 

[Harrier]

I agree 100 percent, and have a project planted (Codename : Architect) to optimize buildings by finding ones that need a replacing path or making them obsolete.

You may want to consider the Realism Invictus method of replacement buildings. It does it in two stages, so you do not get sudden drops in production/commerce etc. due to obsolescence.

Let me give you an example, using production type buildings.

In RI the forge is replaced by the blast furnace which is replaced by the ironWorks.

Assume we have some forges.

When you reach the tech that provides the blast furnace. The forge is discontinued.

This means you can no longer build the forge only the replacement blast furnace. However existing forges still work. So you can use their production to build a blast furnace or anything else. Once a blast furnace is built however the forge becomes obsolete.

When you research the tech that provides the ironworks the following happens:

The blast furnace is discontinued (can not be built) but existing ones keep working until a foundry is built.

Any remaining forges now go obsolete.


So the basic rules are:

Assume a string of buildings A B C D.

We have some A and B buildings.

Starting with building B.

1. Discover the tech that provides building C.
Discontinue building B.
Obsolete building A.

2. Build C and obsolete B.

 

[Arakhor]

Vokarya's method (in AND2) is to simply add the effects of the replaced building into the new building, which is even simpler still, I think.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Don't we already have this for many buildings? We have ...

Huts -> Workshops -> Factories

 

[Arakhor]

That's only one strand. There are quite a lot more that could be updated.

 

[Hydromancerx]

That's only one strand. There are quite a lot more that could be updated.

What other ones do you think should be?

 

[Arakhor]

Just off the top of my head, you could upgrade the Tally Stone into the Counting Sticks (or the reverse, whichever) if you have both resources. After all, they have very similar effects (though the upgraded building would have double effect) and you only really need one prehistoric maths "building".

As another thought, the Bonfire could upgrade into the Imu and so on. I'd have to load C2C to look at other options.

I've mentioned before that the various Education effects could replace each other with incrementally increased effects, rather than have a dozen different effects by the time you have Education 1000 or so.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I have been meaning to ask for the market, bazaar and grocer buildings to have 2 unhappy to represent the best outcome of both parties being satisfied with the outcome of the trade. With this being countered by the Standardization of Weights and Measures building. It would be a bit more realistic and reduce the excess happiness in the early period.

 

[Harrier]

I have been meaning to ask for the market, bazaar and grocer buildings to have 2 unhappy to represent the best outcome of both parties being satisfied with the outcome of the trade.

I do not understand this - why 2 unhappy.

If I go to the market to buy something I want, I am happy if they have it. I may be unhappy if they don't, but that is a different story.

Also the market trader is happy he/she has sold something.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Ah, but you live in a post Quaker world. The Quakers were supposedly the first to introduce fixed prices in stores, ie no haggling. It caused riots.

The best outcome is when both people feel they have cheated the the other in haggling but most often both feel that they have been cheated and if they had just been quicker with that comeback they would have gotten the better deal.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Ah, but you live in a post Quaker world. The Quakers were supposedly the first to introduce fixed prices in stores, ie no haggling. It caused riots.

The best outcome is when both people feel they have cheated the the other in haggling but most often both feel that they have been cheated and if they had just been quicker with that comeback they would have gotten the better deal.

Yeah, I don't buy it. They still haggle all the time in Mexico and I always enjoyed it as a buyer and I can imagine the seller is often just happy to GET a profit (if he doesn't, why would he sell at any price?) Surely at any point in history there's more happiness in having a place for which the commerce can take place than there would be unhappiness for it.

Mind, I'm all about wanting to make happiness more challenging in the early stages of the game - having the capital eliminate all unhappiness from the earliest civics seems too heavy handed to me. Might be interesting to see what would happen if that were removed.

Azure recently suggested a number of tech effects for existing buildings and I was going to say (if he's listening here) that there should be as much consideration put into maluses as there has been for bonuses. Not only will we be tweaking early game balance without doing so but I think there should be some more negative effects for strong techs to make the player who thinks he's figured out the best path question himself a bit more. Besides that it would be nice to see some tech generated maluses that aren't just from obsoletion (might make a few obsoletions a GOOD thing )

 

[Azurian]

Yeah, I don't buy it. They still haggle all the time in Mexico and I always enjoyed it as a buyer and I can imagine the seller is often just happy to GET a profit (if he doesn't, why would he sell at any price?) Surely at any point in history there's more happiness in having a place for which the commerce can take place than there would be unhappiness for it.

Mind, I'm all about wanting to make happiness more challenging in the early stages of the game - having the capital eliminate all unhappiness from the earliest civics seems too heavy handed to me. Might be interesting to see what would happen if that were removed.

Azure recently suggested a number of tech effects for existing buildings and I was going to say (if he's listening here) that there should be as much consideration put into maluses as there has been for bonuses. Not only will we be tweaking early game balance without doing so but I think there should be some more negative effects for strong techs to make the player who thinks he's figured out the best path question himself a bit more. Besides that it would be nice to see some tech generated maluses that aren't just from obsoletion (might make a few obsoletions a GOOD thing )

Techs and Buildings can be configured to give negative commerce or yields?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Same tag use unless someone put a negative limiter in the code (which CAN be easily removed if needbe.)

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Techs and Buildings can be configured to give negative commerce or yields?

Buildings can for sure - see the slave buildings. I have not tried with techs.