Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Hmm. Possibly. I would still have to make sure that the
was equal to the max at the midpoint buildings.
C2C - Housing
- Thread starter Hydromancerx
- Start date
Hmm. Possibly. I would still have to make sure that the
was equal to the max at the midpoint buildings.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
SVN Update
- Housing (Homeless) reduced +8 to +4 .
Turns out I was over compensating since some could not get triggered until others were already replaced. Thus I could lower it to +4 and still be even. Though it might still be better as +5 , but the +2 
should cover that.
- Housing (Homeless) reduced +8
to +4 .Turns out I was over compensating since some could not get triggered until others were already replaced. Thus I could lower it to +4
and still be even. Though it might still be better as +5 , but the +2 should cover that.Maybe we should change the unhealthiness mechanic in low pop cities anyway. Instead of taking away food, I'd say part of its effect should be increasing the food needed to grow to avoid this situation where both food and unhealthiness become meaningless until 
exceeds again.
So for instance in a 5 pop city 10 would decrease by 10.
In a 4 pop city 10 would decrease by 8 and increase needed to grow by 10%.
In a 3 pop city 10 would decrease by 6 and increase needed to grow by 20%.
In a 2 pop city 10 would decrease by 3 and increase needed to grow by 40%.
In a 1 pop city 10 would only increase needed to grow by 60%.
That is only an example and would need to be tried out and improved so it works best.
exceeds again.So for instance in a 5 pop city 10
would decrease by 10.In a 4 pop city 10
would decrease by 8 and increase needed to grow by 10%.In a 3 pop city 10
would decrease by 6 and increase needed to grow by 20%.In a 2 pop city 10
would decrease by 3 and increase needed to grow by 40%.In a 1 pop city 10
would only increase needed to grow by 60%.That is only an example and would need to be tried out and improved so it works best.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
This just may be the Final straw that breaks the camels back. 
Any part of the Mod that adds +1 anything and at the same time adds +1 of it's counter is wasted effort, wasted computation time and wasted display space. The mod is full of this pointless decimal place swapping.
This is just another example of the Berry Bush/Mushroom builds. Something that is useless when you need it but will eventually (and well after it's usefulness is gone) after 3 or 4 steps will get you a very insignificant +1 benefit. I still don't build either of these 2 anymore they are pointless except in extreme cases.
And what is the AI going to do with it besides choke itself to death? Especially now that Housing is "mandatory".
Finally "homelessness" had a very different meaning in Ancient times than it does today. This homeless distraction should not even be in the Pre Era, it does not fit.
JosEPh :/
Any part of the Mod that adds +1 anything and at the same time adds +1 of it's counter is wasted effort, wasted computation time and wasted display space. The mod is full of this pointless decimal place swapping.
This is just another example of the Berry Bush/Mushroom builds. Something that is useless when you need it but will eventually (and well after it's usefulness is gone) after 3 or 4 steps will get you a very insignificant +1 benefit. I still don't build either of these 2 anymore they are pointless except in extreme cases.
And what is the AI going to do with it besides choke itself to death? Especially now that Housing is "mandatory".
Finally "homelessness" had a very different meaning in Ancient times than it does today. This homeless distraction should not even be in the Pre Era, it does not fit.
JosEPh :/
This just may be the Final straw that breaks the camels back.
Any part of the Mod that adds +1 anything and at the same time adds +1 of it's counter is wasted effort, wasted computation time and wasted display space. The mod is full of this pointless decimal place swapping.
This is just another example of the Berry Bush/Mushroom builds. Something that is useless when you need it but will eventually (and well after it's usefulness is gone) after 3 or 4 steps will get you a very insignificant +1 benefit. I still don't build either of these 2 anymore they are pointless except in extreme cases.
And what is the AI going to do with it besides choke itself to death? Especially now that Housing is "mandatory".
Finally "homelessness" had a very different meaning in Ancient times than it does today. This homeless distraction should not even be in the Pre Era, it does not fit.
JosEPh :/
I agree, the whole Housing idea is a lousy way of simulating the advancement of living conditions. I would much rather scrap the whole Housing system and replace the bonuses with Tech-based +
and +
.
Randomness
...
I agree, the whole Housing idea is a lousy way of simulating the advancement of living conditions. I would much rather scrap the whole Housing system and replace the bonuses with Tech-based +
I strongly agree.
TowerWizard
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 277
I agree, on both points. The AI is obviously struggling in the early game (if not during the whole of the game). This is a mechanic that a clever player will figure out. "I cannot get more food than the health penalty? Build something else until I can breach through." Koshling made this point earlier. My guess is that the AI won't be this smart, and will happily build food buildings regardless if they actually will bring any benefit. Please, if I am wrong with this assumption, feel free to correct me. If I am not wrong, this change will differentiate even more between the AI and the player in the all-important early game.
The other point here is that homelessness, logically speaking, cannot be an issue until, you know, homes are invented...
More to the point, when I first heard of the homelessness building I thought if would be auto built in large ancient and above cities lacking infrastructure, not that it would be right there in your starting city.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Oops! I did it again with the No, No, No statements. Hydro hates me for this kind of stuff. I'll just have to muddle thru this and see if I can adapt to it. (I still do Not like Crime but I'm adjusting and adapting, but I still grit my teeth over parts of it even now)
For me the 2nd iteration of the housing line was the best, the 3rd was usable but had buildings I would skip/not use. Now this newest is "under the Hood" forcing me to use it. (Don't like to be forced into play a certain way all the time)
@Hydro,
You know what I'd really like to see you put your efforts into... your Original AND Farm series. Those were Fun. And Waaaay better than the Cow, Oxen, Donkey etc. farms now in C2C.
JosEPh (cranky old man that always yells at Hydro)
For me the 2nd iteration of the housing line was the best, the 3rd was usable but had buildings I would skip/not use. Now this newest is "under the Hood" forcing me to use it. (Don't like to be forced into play a certain way all the time)
@Hydro,
You know what I'd really like to see you put your efforts into... your Original AND Farm series. Those were Fun. And Waaaay better than the Cow, Oxen, Donkey etc. farms now in C2C.
JosEPh (cranky old man that always yells at Hydro)
Nimek
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2010
- Messages
- 1,208
If you want to remove housing and add bonuses to techs think about this also
Add big penalty ex +50% more to grow to game start
Add less to grow bonuses to techs like herbalism medicine sanitation
This will allow us to avoid too big cities too early
Will be realistic without knowledge people die on the simplsest disease and because they dont know nothing about sanitation standarts.
Edit
I like housing since they are autobuildable because
1 they allow to add some bonuses only in some cities (techs adds bonuses to all)
2 gives some more depth in city managemant
I see the future in this idea because we can connect happy bonus with housing
And add other benefits like gold etc
Now if you want hapiness you just build one building. Want gold build another.
It will be fun when your citizen requirments will be more complex.
nd
Add big penalty ex +50% more to grow to game start
Add less to grow bonuses to techs like herbalism medicine sanitation
This will allow us to avoid too big cities too early
Will be realistic without knowledge people die on the simplsest disease and because they dont know nothing about sanitation standarts.
Edit
I like housing since they are autobuildable because
1 they allow to add some bonuses only in some cities (techs adds bonuses to all)
2 gives some more depth in city managemant
I see the future in this idea because we can connect happy bonus with housing
And add other benefits like gold etc
Now if you want hapiness you just build one building. Want gold build another.
It will be fun when your citizen requirments will be more complex.
nd
This already exists IIRC.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I agree, the whole Housing idea is a lousy way of simulating the advancement of living conditions. I would much rather scrap the whole Housing system and replace the bonuses with Tech-based +
What? Housing doesn't even give
or . What he housing is suppose to simulate is the type of buildings in sim city which are ...Density: Low, Medium, High (also Super for the arcologies)
AND
Wealth: Low, Medium, High
Please don't have me throw them out.
1. Gah you started a riot.
2. most of those are still in the game just distributed to other buildings such as the Wool benefit from sheep is at the Sheering Barn (which we did not have before).
Gah! I wonder if you guys actually pay attention to what the buildings do. The buildings work like this ...
Residential =
(based on density), (based on density), 
(based on wealth), 
(based on era)Commercial =
(sometimes or too based on what type of building it is)Industrial (Agriculture) =
and Industrial =
, and sometimes .Civic = This includes police, fire department, schools, etc this takes
but gives 
, , anti-crime or anti-flammability.In this model the the IRC counters any Civic/Public buildings. Their gold pays for utilities such as power, water, garbage, parks, etc too.
I'd like to say now that housing is autobuild/upgrade I think they are perfect. One of the things I always thought was missing was a way to get new cities up to speed without having to drive up inflation buying a bunch of buildings from scratch or having to micromanage trade caravans. Now cities will start with a hammer boost that gets bigger with your technological level.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@Nevets
Thanks. Also by Guilds you can really get a bunch of buildings already made in your new cities. When I get around to doing unions/franchises they should do the same for modern buildings.
On a side note the auto-build tag is very powerful and could be used for many things in the future. Housing is just the tip of the iceberg.
Thanks. Also by Guilds you can really get a bunch of buildings already made in your new cities. When I get around to doing unions/franchises they should do the same for modern buildings.
On a side note the auto-build tag is very powerful and could be used for many things in the future. Housing is just the tip of the iceberg.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I've learned to completely trust your judgement on building issues H!
WimpyTheWarrior
Warlord
So far I am OK with the new housing, but admittedly I did not start a new game. I picked up the SVN housing version just before my second city. My capital did start at negative food from the environment but if you move Herbalism and Cooking up sooner in your research plan you should start growing after a while.
Thus far (~100 turns) the only thing I would change is to allow the Housing (Bark Huts) to use jungle as well as forests. Lots of indigineous jungle tribes use bark canoes, shelters, carrying sacks, etc. I can see excluding Bamboo but jungle should allow the Bark housing, IMHO.
Thus far (~100 turns) the only thing I would change is to allow the Housing (Bark Huts) to use jungle as well as forests. Lots of indigineous jungle tribes use bark canoes, shelters, carrying sacks, etc. I can see excluding Bamboo but jungle should allow the Bark housing, IMHO.
Btw, let me remind you of the NewCityFree expression tag to let some buildings auto build when you found new cities.
I just noticed bark gatherer obsoletes at masonry, but you can't build hovels until city planning, which is hundreds of turns later. If you found any cities in between you will have homeless. Maybe there should be an intermediate building that requires bricks, something like Dirt Brick Huts.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I disagree. And this has already been done before. I fought against it then I'll fight against it now.
Your 1st cities should Not be stuck at 1 pop for 10s of thousands of years. That's just ludicrous and for those seeking "realism" just plain false. The food strangle hold needs to be loosened at game start not tightened.
JosEPh
I think early-game growth is just fine as it is now. You don't get much food from plots and buildings, but you get plenty of hunting opportunities. That is what the Prehistoric era is all about.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I don't totally agree about the hunting, That is directly related to your start position and number of AI you placed in the game.
And with the recent additions early game growth isn't that good either imho. Why shouldn't I get a decent return from my worked tiles? BerryBushes and Mushrooms are now trash and wasted space. I never build them till much much later. Usually After I enter Ancient era.
So I guess I disagree with your assessment about the Pre Era.
JosEPh
And with the recent additions early game growth isn't that good either imho. Why shouldn't I get a decent return from my worked tiles? BerryBushes and Mushrooms are now trash and wasted space. I never build them till much much later. Usually After I enter Ancient era.
So I guess I disagree with your assessment about the Pre Era.
JosEPh
