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C2C - Housing

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by Hydromancerx, Apr 28, 2011.

  1. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    The workup assumes that - food NEEDED TO GROW will be a positive thing.

    We can simply increase the base food needed to grow to compensate, even making cities grow more slowly overall so as to enact further control over this aspect of the current imbalance.

    The health/unhealth will always see the health win out. It's more healthy to have housing than for your citizens to be homeless but the more dense the housing, the less effective it is.

    The happiness counteracts an adjustment to the amount of base unhappiness given to the population unhappiness modifier (doubling the natural unhappiness by population) making the building critical to establish in every city. The thinking there is that if people are homeless, they are desperately upset. If they have the basic need of housing available to them at a rate they can afford (thus you need to cover all kinds of zones to counteract the growing unhappiness problem) then they should be a long ways towards comfortable and happy with their civilization's leadership.

    In some ways, the idea of constantly developing buildings to add more and more worth is inherently flawed in that it will always lead to imbalance. We must find ways to put weight on the other end of the scale without always putting that weight into further building definitions. There comes a time when we need to recognize that the base considerations are out of whack, such as with food - currently our system allows cities to grow too quickly because we have the base food needed to grow too low for an environment where we are providing the player with means to increase food production via buildings. Remember that vanilla had NO buildings that would give additional food period - it ALL came from land spaces ONLY.

    Another way to address the food problem is to reconsider how much population 1 pop represents. If each pop represents less actual population than we can rationalize larger cities.

    So, I wasn't saying to have it create ANY food LOSS but instead reducing the amount of food necessary to grow (housing allows for personal food storage reducing waste and privacy which increases the capacity for procreation among the citizenry.)
     
  2. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    I think happiness should not be associated with it. While the homeless would be happy to get a house those that lived in a better house would not be as happy to downgrade to a lesser house. In other words I think there are too many factors of why you like or dislike a house. For instance many people love the houses they buy but then after a few years are sick of it and wish they had a new house. Likewise some people hate their house and then grow to love it.

    On a side note house is your whole maintenance thing going? Is the template thing set up yet?
     
  3. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Its under development. I'm now working to add all the right xml tags to Kosh's ingenious tool... should work out much faster doing it this way so hopefully by this weekend will at least have the spreadsheet worked out.

    I agree that people are finicky and that they all need their homes to reflect what they can afford.

    I would presume that without any 'housing' buildings being built, everyone but the mayor and a few select officials would be homeless. Many would remain homeless if you didn't build enough housing districts. Thus, happiness isn't judged as to whether or not you have appropriate housing for your income so much as whether there are enough houses/income options to allow for everyone to BE housed.

    Thus, if you double the unhappiness factor on population, then give each housing district built a -10% unhappiness from population effect, you will duplicate the effect of unhappiness from homelessness and happiness from having appropriate shelter. Besides, it would go beyond compensating for the double unhappiness down the road which tends to go towards saying that who cares how crowded the city is as long as we all have a place to call our own?
     
  4. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    @Thunderbrd

    Those factors actully sound more like they should be a civic and less a building.

    Afforess' Re-Written Civics

    This may need to be tweaked for C2C.
     
  5. Praetyre

    Praetyre King

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    I'd be happy to provide my own thoughts on Industrial/modern house naming. My suggestions are in bold.
    I would note, though, that villa/insulae/domus etc. are exclusively Roman names, and a "ghetto" would, if you wanted to parallel it's historical forms, require Judaism with another state religion, and in modern times, a degree of cultural influence from a civ with foreign culture in that city. But, a name's a name, and it's as good a fit as any. I'm sure there's a better term than "Luxury Towers" around, but it's the only one I cold come up with at any rate.
     
  6. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Love the names Praetyre!

    Ok. Hydro. Lets start from the beginning to think this through. The concept of putting some of those thoughts into Civic form is not a bad one. I do find that a compelling way to consider some of this.

    BUT

    You seem to be suggesting that housing = more people in the city but those people are not reflected in the city population.

    This is where I bear the greatest disagreement. Its hard for me to rationalize the whole system in this manner. If that's what you're going for, we need to get clear on that before we start niggling over the details of what housing means in game effects.

    In fact, one thing I was thinking might be a way for both of us to come together on our perspectives here is to have population LIMITED by housing. That might be an interesting way for this whole thing to play out...
     
  7. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    @Praetyre

    Some good ideas there in names. :D

    @Thunderbrd

    Housing limit population actually goes back to my original topic on this for AND. In the old topic i had this ...

    Residential Buildings

    Spoiler :

    Note that State-Owned Land and Communal Land would limit the city size to size 1.

    Small Huts (Req None)
    Cost: 5
    Obsolete: City Planning

    Special Abilities
    • -2 Food
    • Size 2 City Size Limit

    Medium Huts (Req None)
    Cost: 10
    Obsolete: City Planning

    Special Abilities
    • -4 Food
    • Size 3 City Size Limit
    • Requires Small Huts

    Large Huts (Req None)
    Cost: 15
    Obsolete: City Planning

    Special Abilities
    • -6 Food
    • Size 4 City Size Limit
    • Requires Medium Huts

    Small Hovels (Req Masonry)
    Cost: 20
    Obsolete: Architecture

    Special Abilities
    • -8 Food
    • Size 5 City Size Limit
    • Requires Town Well

    Medium Hovels (Req Masonry)
    Cost: 25
    Obsolete: Architecture

    Special Abilities
    • -10 Food
    • Size 6 City Size Limit
    • Requires Small Hovels
    • Requires Town Well

    Large Hovels (Req Masonry)
    Cost: 30
    Obsolete: Architecture

    Special Abilities
    • -12 Food
    • Size 7 City Size Limit
    • Requires Medium Hovels
    • Requires Town Well

    Small Cottages (Req City Planning)
    Cost: 35
    Obsolete: Electricity

    Special Abilities
    • -14 Food
    • Size 8 City Size Limit
    • Requires Water Pipes

    Medium Cottages (Req City Planning)
    Cost: 40
    Obsolete: Electricity

    Special Abilities
    • -16 Food
    • Size 9 City Size Limit
    • Requires Small Cottages
    • Requires Water Pipes

    Large Cottages (Req City Planning)
    Cost: 45
    Obsolete: Electricity

    Special Abilities
    • -18 Food
    • Size 10 City Size Limit
    • Requires Medium Cottages
    • Requires Water Pipes

    Small Homesteads (Req Architecture)
    Cost: 50
    Obsolete: Civil Engineering

    Special Abilities
    • -20 Food
    • Size 15 City Size Limit
    • Requires Water Pipes
    • Requires Sewer System

    Medium Homesteads (Req Architecture)
    Cost: 55
    Obsolete: Civil Engineering

    Special Abilities
    • -22 Food
    • Size 20 City Size Limit
    • Requires Small Homesteads
    • Requires Water Pipes
    • Requires Sewer System

    Large Homesteads (Req Architecture)
    Cost: 60
    Obsolete: Civil Engineering

    Special Abilities
    • -24 Food
    • Size 25 City Size Limit
    • Requires Medium Homesteads
    • Requires Water Pipes
    • Requires Sewer System

    Small Modern Houses (Req Electricity)
    Cost: 65
    Obsolete: 3D Modeling

    Special Abilities
    • -26 Food
    • Size 30 City Size Limit
    • Requires Water Pipes
    • Requires Sewer System
    • Requires Power

    Medium Modern Houses (Req Electricity)
    Cost: 70
    Obsolete: 3D Modeling

    Special Abilities
    • -28 Food
    • Size 35 City Size Limit
    • Requires Small Modern Houses
    • Requires Water Pipes
    • Requires Sewer System
    • Requires Power

    Large Modern Houses (Req Electricity)
    Cost: 75
    Obsolete: 3D Modeling

    Special Abilities
    • -30 Food
    • Size 40 City Size Limit
    • Requires Medium Modern Houses
    • Requires Water Pipes
    • Requires Sewer System
    • Requires Power

    Small Apartments (Req Civil Engineering)
    Cost: 80
    Obsolete: Megastructure Engineering

    Special Abilities
    • -32 Food
    • Size 45 City Size Limit
    • Requires Water Pipes
    • Requires Sewer System
    • Requires Power
    • Requires Telephone Network

    Medium Apartments (Req Civil Engineering)
    Cost: 85
    Obsolete: Megastructure Engineering

    Special Abilities
    • -34 Food
    • Size 50 City Size Limit
    • Requires Small Apartments
    • Requires Water Pipes
    • Requires Sewer System
    • Requires Power
    • Requires Telephone Network

    Large Apartments (Req Civil Engineering)
    Cost: 90
    Obsolete: Megastructure Engineering

    Special Abilities
    • -36 Food
    • Size 55 City Size Limit
    • Requires Medium Apartments
    • Requires Water Pipes
    • Requires Sewer System
    • Requires Power
    • Requires Telephone Network

    Small Highrises (Req 3D Modeling)
    Cost: 95
    Obsolete: Advanced Shielding

    Special Abilities
    • -38 Food
    • Size 60 City Size Limit
    • Requires Water Pipes
    • Requires Sewer System
    • Requires Power
    • Requires Telephone Network
    • Requires Computer Network

    Medium Highrises (Req 3D Modeling)
    Cost: 100
    Obsolete: Advanced Shielding

    Special Abilities
    • -40 Food
    • Size 70 City Size Limit
    • Requires Small Highrises
    • Requires Water Pipes
    • Requires Sewer System
    • Requires Power
    • Requires Telephone Network
    • Requires Computer Network

    Large Highrises (Req 3D Modeling)
    Cost: 105
    Obsolete: Advanced Shielding

    Special Abilities
    • -42 Food
    • Size 80 City Size Limit
    • Requires Medium Highrises
    • Requires Water Pipes
    • Requires Sewer System
    • Requires Power
    • Requires Telephone Network
    • Requires Computer Network

    Small Arcology Habitats (Req Civil Engineering)
    Cost: 110
    Obsolete: Advanced Shielding

    Special Abilities
    • -44 Food
    • Size 90 City Size Limit
    • Requires Water Pipes
    • Requires Sewer System
    • Requires Power
    • Requires Telephone Network
    • Requires Computer Network
    • Requires Arcology

    Medium Arcology Habitats (Req Civil Engineering)
    Cost: 115
    Obsolete: Advanced Shielding

    Special Abilities
    • -46 Food
    • Size 100 City Size Limit
    • Requires Small Arcology Habitats
    • Requires Water Pipes
    • Requires Sewer System
    • Requires Power
    • Requires Telephone Network
    • Requires Computer Network
    • Requires Arcology

    Large Arcology Habitats (Req Civil Engineering)
    Cost: 120
    Obsolete: Advanced Shielding

    Special Abilities
    • -48 Food
    • Requires Medium Arcology Habitats
    • Requires Water Pipes
    • Requires Sewer System
    • Requires Power
    • Requires Telephone Network
    • Requires Computer Network
    • Requires Arcology


    However Killtech had a good response to this ...

    In other words it is one thing to have buildings locked until they reach a higher population but having the building limit city size without the AI understanding that they need to build the building will cripple the AI. Which is why I don't want to use that method.
     
  8. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    I wonder how they achieved it in Civ III and earlier where you a city would not grow beyond size 6 without an aquaduct and so on.:mischief:
     
  9. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    If you can make it work then I am all for it. I just don't want the AI to be dumb and never build it.
     
  10. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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    It could be addressed in the AI, but it might give us issues with maintaining DLL-source compatibility with AND. I would have to discuss it with Afforess
     
  11. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    At some point, we will have to accept that our files will be further and further differing from AND. We will need to be very careful about documenting those differences so we can easily merge and update - which I know we're doing already. I guess we just need to do it more carefully and thoroughly as we both press forward to make our mods what we want them to be. We can't let that hold us back I think.

    The first suggestions were great! (but I still balk at housing COSTING food at all... it'd have an effect of improving on food storage thus reducing waste I think...) Housing COULD, however, require a population to 'staff' (representing stay at home moms).

    Waste (+%food needed to grow) <-----> Conservation (-%food needed to grow)
    is a whole 'nother metric to fully explore.

    For example: Buffet: Gives gold and happiness at the expense of Waste and Unhealth

    Shouldn't be hard to make the AI see these as extremely important to build. Just give them a Conservation effect and I think it'd be automatically right up there with Granaries (second or fourth on the priority list (depending on how long the building takes to build) as it stands now.) Might wanna test the effect BUT I don't think it'd take any further dll programming unless putting an xml tag in for population LIMIT would be necessary (I think it might be needed actually.)
     
  12. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    This is a good point. When C2C was started from Prehistoric NWA when Afforess was gone working on Civ5 and even Minecraft. It was assumed he probably was not returning and in turn AND was not going to be active again. However it has and he did return. While I have nothing against him returning and working on AND it just makes things harder for us since we have obviously diverged from AND awhile ago. We can no longer say we are using AND/RoM as our core since so much of it has been changed, tweaked, added on to and even removed (in some cases). At most I think we will have to treat AND like any other mod out there. Where we can salvage stuff we want to add to C2C but not necessarily have to add just because its AND.

    But we need some sort of anti-food factor. This is the best set of buildings to address this issue. Unlike most other mods they just don't have this many buildings producing this much food.

    As for houses storing food. I get that, this can be address not by saying they produce food (farms and hunting camps and fishing buildings do that) We can have them work like a weaker version of the Storage Pit / Granary / Ice House; where it stores % :food: after growth.

    This way it would allow for both of our ideas where -:food: is representing consuming food and %:food: saved after growth represents the storage of food in homes. So like ...

    Low Density = 1% :food: Storage
    Medium Density = 2% :food: Storage
    High Density = 3% :food: Storage
    Super Density = 4% :food: Storage

    Note that each of those will have a Low, medium and High wealth. So at its max you would have 30% :food: Storage after Growth if you built all the possible buildings. Not to mention the other non-residential buildings that give you a bonus.
     
  13. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I can understand one angle for this, that breeding takes a bit of food supplies and pours it towards children who do not yet count towards population yet (which is only a count of able bodied citizens) and for the elderly. THAT consideration would make some sense.

    However, again, I would say that it would be easier to achieve food balance if we simply made it take more food overall to grow in general. Its ok to give excess food as long as we have a drag but that drag doesn't HAVE to come from buildings...

    And yes, you're finally seeing what I mean by -% food needed to grow (though I think you just mentioned a whole nother metric I had forgotten existed, % food stored after growth Pretty much amounts to the same thing with some minor differences, and I think the concept is better expressed in % food stored after growth so it would probably make more sense to use that tag instead.)

    I think we're coming to a sense of agreement here.

    What do you think of (rather than assigning any kind of production penalties due to 'slack' that stems from the comfort of home ownership (-production)) the concept of requiring a population to staff each type of district? (In fact, I suggest 1 pop for low density, 2 pop for med, 3 pop for high, etc...) This would also have a drastic impact on food and helps to balance out our excessive production and gold income as well. (and it makes sense that we're now isolating out of the equation some possible able bodied adults as child rearers.)

    Overall, in such a scenario as I'm suggesting here, I would probably want to use BOTH improved % food stored after growth AND - food needed for next growth due to the fact that we would be considering housing to be a breeding ground as well as a subtle food storage mechanism.

    Assigning pop to 'staff' housing would also explain some additional gold income as those people would still be out shopping and being taxed on that etc...
     
  14. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    Here is a revised list of names ...

    Ancient Era / Classical Era
    - Low Density | Low Wealth = Hovels
    - Low Density | Medium Wealth = Domuses
    - Low Density | High Wealth = Villas
    - Medium Density | Low Wealth = Slums
    - Medium Density | Medium Wealth = Insulas
    - Medium Density | High Wealth = ?

    Medieval Era / Renaissance Era
    - Low Density | Low Wealth = Shacks
    - Low Density | Medium Wealth = Cottages
    - Low Density | High Wealth = Manors
    - Medium Density | Low Wealth = Shanty Town
    - Medium Density | Medium Wealth = Commons
    - Medium Density | High Wealth = Estates

    Industrial Era / Modern Era
    - Low Density | Low Wealth = Boondocks
    - Low Density | Medium Wealth = Suburbs
    - Low Density | High Wealth = Mansions
    - Medium Density | Low Wealth = Ghettos
    - Medium Density | Medium Wealth = Apartments
    - Medium Density | High Wealth = Condominiums
    - High Density | Low Wealth = Projects
    - High Density | Medium Wealth = Highrises
    - High Density | High Wealth = Penthouse Suites

    Trans-Human Era / Galactic Era
    - Low Density | Low Wealth = Dugouts
    - Low Density | Medium Wealth = Smart Homes
    - Low Density | High Wealth = Chateau
    - Medium Density | Low Wealth = Refugee Camps
    - Medium Density | Medium Wealth = High-Tech Appartments
    - Medium Density | High Wealth = High-Tech Condominiums
    - High Density | Low Wealth = Habitation Pods
    - High Density | Medium Wealth = High-Tech Highrises
    - High Density | High Wealth = Holo-Suites
    - Super Density | Low Wealth = Arcology Slums
    - Super Density | Medium Wealth = Arcology Suburbs
    - Super Density | High Wealth = Arcology Upperclass
     
  15. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    I have been having trouble finding icon buttons for the Trans-Human Era / Galactic Era housing. Could someone help me out with some examples? Note links are fine I can convert them into icon/buttons myself.
     
  16. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I can make a few... which buildings, in particular, were you having trouble getting icons for?

    Also... you never answered my question about how you feel about assigning a population to 'work' these buildings...
     
  17. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    1. I need the following ...

    Trans-Human Era / Galactic Era
    - Low Density | Low Wealth = Dugouts
    - Low Density | Medium Wealth = Smart Homes
    - Low Density | High Wealth = Chateau
    - Medium Density | Low Wealth = Refugee Camps
    - Medium Density | Medium Wealth = High-Tech Apartments
    - Medium Density | High Wealth = High-Tech Condominiums
    - High Density | Low Wealth = Habitation Pods
    - High Density | Medium Wealth = High-Tech Highrises
    - High Density | High Wealth = Holo-Suites

    I already found the rest.

    2. As for the non-working population (children, stay at home mothers and elderly) I think it would not matter since the production is added on after those factors are removed. You still will have more production from a higher density building than a lower density building. So it would not matter.

    3. As i have it now it works like this. So far in testing I am happy with the results...

    Density
    Low = -1:food: +1:hammers:, -1% Defense, +1%:food: Stored
    Medium = -2:food: +2:hammers:, -2% Defense, +2%:food: Stored, +1:yuck:, Req Size 6 Pop
    High = -3:food: +3:hammers:, -3% Defense, +3%:food: Stored, +2:yuck:, Req Size 13 Pop
    Super = -4:food: +4:hammers:, -4% Defense, +4%:food: Stored, +3:yuck:, Req Size 25 Pop

    Wealth
    Low = +1:gold:
    Medium = +2:gold:
    High = +3:gold:

    Era
    Prehistoric = +1:health:
    Ancient Era / Classical Era = +2:health:
    Medieval Era / Renaissance Era = +3:health:
    Industrial Era / Modern Era = +4:health:
    Trans-Human Era / Galactic Era = +5:health:

    Note that there are other factors too for requirements ...

    Ancient Era / Classical Era

    Req: Masonry | Obsolete: Architecture

    - Low Density | Low Wealth = Good (Wood), Well OR Aqueduct OR Water Pipes

    Req: City Planning | Obsolete: Architecture

    - Low Density | Medium Wealth = Good (Wood), Good (Bricks), Aqueduct OR Water Pipes

    - Low Density | High Wealth = Good (Wood), Good (Bricks), Good (Marble), Sewer System, Aqueduct OR Water Pipes

    - Medium Density | Low Wealth = Good (Wood), Good (Bricks), Well OR Aqueduct OR Water Pipes

    - Medium Density | Medium Wealth = Good (Wood), Good (Bricks), Aqueduct OR Water Pipes

    - Medium Density | High Wealth = Good (Wood), Good (Bricks), Good (Marble), Sewer System, Aqueduct OR Water Pipes

    Medieval Era / Renaissance Era

    Req: Surveying | Obsolete: Civil Engineering

    - Low Density | Low Wealth = Good (Wood), Artesian Well OR Aqueduct OR Water Pipes

    - Low Density | Medium Wealth = Good (Wood), Good (Bricks), Aqueduct OR Water Pipes

    - Low Density | High Wealth = Good (Wood), Good (Bricks), Good (Marble), Sewer System, Aqueduct OR Water Pipes

    - Medium Density | Low Wealth = Good (Wood), Good (Bricks), Artesian Well OR Aqueduct OR Water Pipes

    - Medium Density | Medium Wealth = Good (Wood), Good (Bricks), Aqueduct OR Water Pipes

    - Medium Density | High Wealth = Good (Wood), Good (Bricks), Good (Marble), Sewer System, Aqueduct OR Water Pipes

    Industrial Era / Modern Era

    Req: Electricity | Obsolete: Megastructure Engineering

    - Low Density | Low Wealth = Sewer System, Water Pipes, Access to Electricity

    - Low Density | Medium Wealth = Sewer System, Water Pipes, Telephone Network, Access to Electricity

    - Low Density | High Wealth = Good (Marble), Sewer System, Water Pipes, Telephone Network, Access to Electricity

    - Medium Density | Low Wealth = Sewer System, Water Pipes, Access to Electricity

    - Medium Density | Medium Wealth = Sewer System, Water Pipes, Telephone Network, Access to Electricity

    - Medium Density | High Wealth = Good (Marble), Sewer System, Water Pipes, Telephone Network, Access to Electricity

    - High Density | Low Wealth = Skyscraper, Sewer System, Water Pipes, Access to Electricity

    - High Density | Medium Wealth = Skyscraper, Sewer System, Water Pipes, Telephone Network, Access to Electricity

    - High Density | High Wealth = Skyscraper, Good (Marble), Sewer System, Water Pipes, Telephone Network, Access to Electricity

    Trans-Human Era / Galactic Era

    Req: Rapid Prototyping | Obsolete: Launch Arcology

    - Low Density | Low Wealth = Sewer System, Water Pipes, Telephone Network, Access to Electricity

    - Low Density | Medium Wealth = Sewer System, Water Pipes, Telephone Network, Computer Networks, Access to Electricity

    - Low Density | High Wealth = Good (Marble), Sewer System, Water Pipes, Telephone Network, Computer Networks, Access to Electricity

    - Medium Density | Low Wealth = Sewer System, Water Pipes, Telephone Network, Access to Electricity

    - Medium Density | Medium Wealth = Sewer System, Water Pipes, Telephone Network, Computer Networks, Access to Electricity

    - Medium Density | High Wealth = Good (Marble), Sewer System, Water Pipes, Telephone Network, Computer Networks, Access to Electricity

    - High Density | Low Wealth = Skyscraper, Sewer System, Water Pipes, Telephone Network, Access to Electricity

    - High Density | Medium Wealth = Skyscraper, Sewer System, Water Pipes, Telephone Network, Computer Networks, Access to Electricity

    - High Density | High Wealth = Skyscraper, Good (Marble), Sewer System, Water Pipes, Telephone Network, Computer Networks, Access to Electricity

    - Super Density | Low Wealth = Arcology, Sewer System, Water Pipes, Telephone Network, Access to Electricity

    - Super Density | Medium Wealth = Arcology, Sewer System, Water Pipes, Telephone Network, Computer Networks, Access to Electricity

    - Super Density | High Wealth = Arcology, Good (Marble), Sewer System, Water Pipes, Telephone Network, Computer Networks, Access to Electricity

    Phew I think I covered all the factors I put in.

    Note that its all done except for the rest of the icons. These will be the stats of the first version. Any adjustments of tweaks can be done later but I would like to have them tested with this first. No offense to your other ideas. Note I did include your defense idea in this as well as the % food.
     
  18. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Ok, that's good but we still have to consider that we can't have a building do - food and + production. It just doesn't work for the AI. It chokes them up. (Mind you if we could get the AI to consider negative effects we could get it to hold off on these buildings until after normal production and food buildings have been built... but this is something perhaps Afforess or Koshling could achieve... beyond my ability.)
    Also... the Defense penalty is completely insignificant as it is there... i suggest -5%, -10%, -15%, -20%. That wouldn't have a huge impact either but at least enough to be noteable.
     
  19. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    9,254
    It's definately something I plan to look at soon
     
  20. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    16,281
    Location:
    California, USA
    I disagree. Since you can have one of each type they add up fast.

    Low 1% x 3 = 3%
    Medium 2% x 3 = 6%
    High 3% x 3 = 9%
    Super 4% x 3 = 12%

    3 + 6 + 9 + 12 = -30%

    Then take the last defense building is "Advanced Shielding" is +30%.

    So 30% - 30% = 0%

    But lets say we take an example from early game. Lets say ou built all the ancient era buildings which comes out to -9% and then you have a high wall of +50% The houses would reduce your defense to +41%.

    Weird. Maybe the later era shielding needs to be improved. From just the base defense part it goes ...

    Palisade = 10%
    Walls = 30%
    High Walls = 50%
    Barricades = 50%
    Barbed Wire = 50%
    Cement Barrier = 50%
    Advanced Shielding = 30%
     

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