C2C: Maps & Scenarios

[Acularius]

I was just looking through the tutorial's and i was surprised that there really aren't any on Maps

But its really pretty easy "once you get the hang of it," that is.

First thing is to find a map you want to use.
If it already has civs on it, then it's alot more complicated, because you'd have to go through all the lines of the map and delete the TeamReveals/BeginCity/BeginUnit etc.

But you need to edit the WB map you want with notepad or something like it. Then there is no more need for the WB.

There used to be a utility for making maps but i haven't really done one in three or so years, when i used to make maps for CFC. I have like 200 maps, but i wont do an Earth Map, too many critics and to many things that can go wrong.

Best thing to do it always have back-ups of everything you do, that way "just incase."

I found a 'tutorial-esque' thing while looking for a program to make my life easier than doing it by notepad.

Essentially it involves you, the map, WBcleaner (gift from the heavens), research and patience.

I take the map the map load her up with one civ on time and mastery, and do my edits and tweaks.
I save the map, take the WBcleaner and get rid of any unneccessary files, essentially ticking off all the options.

Next is Civilization placement, I choose the civs I want in custom scenario, plop down the 'placeholders' in the spots I want, settlers are great.
Save.

Edit the notepad file of a cleanslate one and add in the civs and edit in the starting location using the unit info x and y coord and editing them for 'player' information.

Save and voila, you have a working map.

As for game balance and civilizations becoming 'OP', don't worry about that too much... simply because it happens... your goal is to bring them down and China was really powerful for the longest time.

Besides, tiny events and being at the right place at the right time can mean a lot, otherwise I would probably be of Spanish descent due to the Armada not getting screwed over.

Where are you putting China, in Beijing? That's only a modern day capital, try placing her along the Yellow River and placing the Mongolians in Machuria if you want to balance it out a bit. That way, you can put in the Koreans to balance out the Mongolians in Machuria.

Also, the HRE spreading into Eastern Europe is technically what they did anyhow.

 

[tebriz]

As for game balance and civilizations becoming 'OP', don't worry about that too much... simply because it happens... your goal is to bring them down and China was really powerful for the longest time.

Besides, tiny events and being at the right place at the right time can mean a lot, otherwise I would probably be of Spanish descent due to the Armada not getting screwed over.

Where are you putting China, in Beijing? That's only a modern day capital, try placing her along the Yellow River and placing the Mongolians in Machuria if you want to balance it out a bit. That way, you can put in the Koreans to balance out the Mongolians in Machuria.

Also, the HRE spreading into Eastern Europe is technically what they did anyhow.

China starts at default place where it is placed in your map. For Rome there is no problem now, they expand in west. I wouldnt like to see them expand in East before they settle France and Spain... I would like to see East Europe celtian and barbarian, Greece can settle south east Europe aswell.
Generally game is fairly balanced and historic for me except China, I know it have always been strong, but when in year 100 all civilizations have 75-100 points and China has 150 it pisses me of
Maybe I will try to change their starting position... I noticed that north lands are much more productive than south (that is why Mongolia gets so strong).
I can put Mongolia and Korea that way, but then they are free to expand north where there is lot of productive land.... It wouldnt change the picture. And also I dont want to use Korea, they do not seems that historically important for me. I don't know what to to with China now, I havent played civilization these days, I will rethink it next days

edit - I think you have missunderstood - I never had Holy Roman Empire in game, in Europe I have only Rome, Greece, Celts and Vikings. I did reference to HRE just to explain starting place of Celts in comparasion to their starting spot

 

[Acularius]

China starts at default place where it is placed in your map. For Rome there is no problem now, they expand in west. I wouldnt like to see them expand in East before they settle France and Spain... I would like to see East Europe celtian and barbarian, Greece can settle south east Europe aswell.
Generally game is fairly balanced and historic for me except China, I know it have always been strong, but when in year 100 all civilizations have 75-100 points and China has 150 it pisses me of
Maybe I will try to change their starting position... I noticed that north lands are much more productive than south (that is why Mongolia gets so strong).
I can put Mongolia and Korea that way, but then they are free to expand north where there is lot of productive land.... It wouldnt change the picture. And also I dont want to use Korea, they do not seems that historically important for me. I don't know what to to with China now, I havent played civilization these days, I will rethink it next days

edit - I think you have missunderstood - I never had Holy Roman Empire in game, in Europe I have only Rome, Greece, Celts and Vikings. I did reference to HRE just to explain starting place of Celts in comparasion to their starting spot

Personally, the only way to balance out China is probably to create another civilization that is based in China, since China's history is relatively diverse with factions and leaders, this wouldn't be a problem.

Personally I wouldn't mind setting someone in Guangzhou, and somewhere in Manchuria (to counter balance the Mongols and Koreans) for a better balance.
China is rich, if it is controlled by one person, then they are pretty much set to rule the world.

 

[tebriz]

Personally, the only way to balance out China is probably to create another civilization that is based in China, since China's history is relatively diverse with factions and leaders, this wouldn't be a problem.

Personally I wouldn't mind setting someone in Guangzhou, and somewhere in Manchuria (to counter balance the Mongols and Koreans) for a better balance.
China is rich, if it is controlled by one person, then they are pretty much set to rule the world.

I gave up to idea of 13 civ map. It can never be historic. So I think using just 5 starting civilizations is the best idea. But I would replace Maya with Greece instead.

I noticed that barbarian cities start to spawn only after one (or maybe all) players build their second city. Have you noticed anything like this? I just want to try one starting civilization game, but I want barbarians to start as early as possible.... I gave myself 2 settlers from the start to build two cities from the begining - but it is turn 64 and no barbarian city yet Any other idea how to speed up spawn of barbarian cities?

 

[strategyonly]

Personally, the only way to balance out China is probably to create another civilization that is based in China, since China's history is relatively diverse with factions and leaders, this wouldn't be a problem.

Personally I wouldn't mind setting someone in Guangzhou, and somewhere in Manchuria (to counter balance the Mongols and Koreans) for a better balance.
China is rich, if it is controlled by one person, then they are pretty much set to rule the world.

If you need a civ, just let me know and i'll see what i can do ok.

 

[Acularius]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_China

At best, from what I can figure out, separating China into a Northern and Southern part would seem best, but what to call them is comething I can't really figure out as they seem to refer to the rulers (the reigning dynasties) moreso than a country name.

Maybe someone more familiar with Chinese history and the nuances of it would be better.

Basically searching for more ideas on this, because gameplay wise it would add balance to the otherwise empty China for 'China' to colonize.

 

[tebriz]

I totally give up to idea of having corect historic world map. If you want history play Rhye's and Fall
I think the funiest way to play this giant map is 40 randomly placed civilization

 

[Acularius]

I totally give up to idea of having corect historic world map. If you want history play Rhye's and Fall
I think the funiest way to play this giant map is 40 randomly placed civilization

I'm fan of Paradox Interative games, and within the community this is probably the stickiest point of them all.

I'm more on the sandbox side of thing rather than making a railroad that a civilization is stuck on, I tend to stand on the side of historical plausibility than historical (orthodox) observance.

Remember, you are playing with thousands of years of history here, something is going to be different.

 

[Praetyre]

Well, there's no reason you can't have both! A random, 40 player (or 30, or 20, or 10 for that matter) version and a historical 10, 20, 30 etc. version. The biggest issue with creating a proper Earth map is that geographic realism doesn't necessarily lend itseld to historical realism; the infamous "crowded Europe" problem. To this end, if anyone should endeavour to remake the Giant Earth Map or make a new one of equal or greater size, I would advocate the shrinking of Canada, Central Asia, the Congo, Greenland, the Pacific, the Sahara and Siberia, so that more space might be given to the British Isles, Central America, China, Europe, Japan and Korea.

 

[tebriz]

I'm fan of Paradox Interative games, and within the community this is probably the stickiest point of them all.

I'm more on the sandbox side of thing rather than making a railroad that a civilization is stuck on, I tend to stand on the side of historical plausibility than historical (orthodox) observance.

Remember, you are playing with thousands of years of history here, something is going to be different.

I just play random giant Pangea map now with all of the 40 civilizations. It is really nice! The mod is awesome! It is year 50BC and only one civilization is dead. Just imagine diplomacy and alliances in 39 civ world I am playing as Mali, and I finally managed to found religion (it is Buddism). AND MOST IMPORTANT THING - YOU NEVER WORRY ABOUT THAT SOMETHING IS NOT VERY HISTORIC

 

[Sgtslick]

Have you guys played earth evolution 2 ? Best earth map i've played by far. Why not just replace the resources in that.

 

[Acularius]

Have you guys played earth evolution 2 ? Best earth map i've played by far. Why not just replace the resources in that.

Pass a link my way, I wouldn't mind taking a look at it.

 

[Koshling]

@Acularis - I've been playing agame on GEM 28 for the past 3 weeks or so, as the Iroquois.

My main observation so far, is that the Andes could use a little creative 'resculpting' in the interests of balance. There are two issues:

1. No connectivity between north and south America without boats. I actually regard this as a minor problem however, though it's a bit awkward for the Aztecs especially.
2. The Incas are totally trapped to the west of the Andes, and have no room to expand or even to hunt! I was easily able to beat the Incas to the whole of the east of south America (Brazil etc.) starting as the Iroquoi! Brazil was also in an animal-on-every-tile state by the time I got there (due to no player being able to reach it to hunt), and as a result I got massive amounts of extra food and production from (eventually) hunting it out.

I really think one tile in the Andes needs to be creatively toned down to hills, to provide a means of egress for the Incas. You could make the same argument about the blocking central American mountain tile also, to allow the Aztecs to move south, but that is of lesser importance.

 

[Acularius]

Hmmm, I'll have to chalk that up with looking at the Tibetan area... which I want to change around a bit.

 

[DRJ]

Have you guys played earth evolution 2 ? Best earth map i've played by far. Why not just replace the resources in that.

While searching for that map, I found a trait called "Accurate Earth Map in develepoment" http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=233586&highlight=earth+evolution

It seems that the creator, kevinman4404, has a nice mod of his own (World History Mod) and is still active with it.

He listed features of his mod, of which some, I think, could very well be adopted to C2C and improve the game play even further! I marked those that I'd like to see in C2C red.

Here the quote from the thread

This is the thread for the map and related features that are being used in my mod (World History Mod). As promised, it will be released in the coming days and the download will be inserted into this post.

Link to my mod development thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=6473712

FEATURES

Best map graphics~ In every way, this should be the best looking map yet released, and much of the art is my work. One could not count the number of ongoing graphical improvements.
New, highly accurate 255x166 world map~ This map uses a projectionless interpretation of the world, to give near-perfect proportions.
New resources, terrains, features/forests and improvements~ Something like 85 resources, and more of everything else, but all of it sensible to some degree.
Wintermod~ Simulates winters
Icemod~ Simulates ice cover, including colder periods (ie Little Ice Age)
Floodmod~ Simulates flooding in at-risk regions
Geographic Simulation~ Active volcanoes and coral reefs.
Domestication~ The power to see a resource is held by the civ(s) that historically discovered it, and it is gradually spread/traded.
Other Changes~ Mountains are now passable to many units. Siege machinery will not be as mobile as in the past.

FUTURE/POSTPONED FEATURES:

Border Reform~ Borders do not go over water, though civs can still improve coastal resources. Now borders are more realistic and the seas are in fact "open."
Geographic Simulation~ Simulated forest industry with lumber mills- disappearance of forests, regrowth and lumber mill income adjustments
Other Changes~ All ships can travel over ocean, but those that are not ocean-ready take damage each turn (earlier ships with less health will die more quickly). Deserts and winters damage each turn, unless accustomed to it (Russia, Viking, desert civs, etc).

RELEASE TODO LIST

-floodmod 50%
-fix latest metal resource so it doesn't chop down trees unless improved
-finish domestication system 50%
-orchard improvement (for cork, fruit)
-volcano mechanics
-fix a couple resources' graphics upon improvement
-cleanup

PATCH #1 TODO LIST

-port all forest graphics from colonization (yes, it's possible, just laborious, and this will improve my light forest graphic)
-improve tobacco
-border reform (borders only go over land, but one problem: city can't work tiles outside borders and I need help fixing that)

PATCH #2 TODO LIST

-animated goat, poultry, seal resource
-winter/desert combat
-highland/desert UP
-ship ocean travel mechanics
-improve orchard improvement
-lumbermill mechanics

ESTIMATED RELEASE DATE: FEBRUARY 2012

SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS: HIGH
GAME REQUIREMENTS: BTS 3.19 ONLY

 

[rightfuture]

Yeah DRJ,

A. I've mentioned Kevinman4400's map (and mod) in the C2C forums a good number of times, even recently, and in his map thread he recently (last few weeks) promised me that he would be done with his map soon, and then he would check out C2C for the possibility he could integrate his World History mod with. With a little luck/help he might integrate it with us.

(I've been hoping C2C would look at the weather stuff as well.

Given his recent progress in spurts, I would bet he follows through with his promise soon.
I recommend we all welcome him, so that he can finish his ambitious World History Mod, and share his thoughts as he pleases with C2C, to the Benefit of Both!!

Two prominent C2C modders have posted questions to him in his two threads in the last month. It would be nice if we all showed some support and encouragement

B. We probably should also start individual threads for each map integration, and use the beginning of this 1 thread to organize the updates. I mentioned this before.
I've only seen someone mention the GEM map a hundred times, and I modified one to play with for ROM, AND, and C2C (earlier without updated resources). It is my favorite map (so far

1. GEM -Giant Earth Map for C2C - Ongoing community effort to keep updated, improved, and in sync for C2C!

2. Kevinman 4400 map for World History Mod for C2C - Once released - please check it out, Kevinman4400 would appreciate words of encouragement. I'm betting this becomes an important focus.

3. Carter map- or any other large maps that people love.

4. Standard earth map - the best updated standard earth map for faster play.

5. favorite mapscript updates.
etc.

Please guys at least share your opinion on both of these ideas?

 

[Koshling]

Yeah DRJ,

A. I've mentioned Kevinman4400's map (and mod) in the C2C forums a good number of times, even recently, and in his map thread he recently (last few weeks) promised me that he would be done with his map soon, and then he would check out C2C for the possibility he could integrate his World History mod with. With a little luck/help he might integrate it with us.

(I've been hoping C2C would look at the weather stuff as well.

Given his recent progress in spurts, I would bet he follows through with his promise soon.
I recommend we all welcome him, so that he can finish his ambitious World History Mod, and share his thoughts as he pleases with C2C, to the Benefit of Both!!

Two prominent C2C modders have posted questions to him in his two threads in the last month. It would be nice if we all showed some support and encouragement

B. We probably should also start individual threads for each map integration, and use the beginning of this 1 thread to organize the updates. I mentioned this before.
I've only seen someone mention the GEM map a hundred times, and I modified one to play with for ROM, AND, and C2C (earlier without updated resources). It is my favorite map (so far

1. GEM -Giant Earth Map for C2C - Ongoing community effort to keep updated, improved, and in sync for C2C!

2. Kevinman 4400 map for World History Mod for C2C - Once released - please check it out, Kevinman4400 would appreciate words of encouragement. I'm betting this becomes an important focus.

3. Carter map- or any other large maps that people love.

4. Standard earth map - the best updated standard earth map for faster play.

5. favorite mapscript updates.
etc.

Please guys at least share your opinion on both of these ideas?

A new modder with great ideas and experience is always welcome, either to participate in the modding effort generally, or to integrate his mod or aspects thereof. So on your first point, I am definately in suport.

On having separate threads for each map, I don't really have a strong option. For highly activate/used maps like GEM it's probably a good idea though.

 

[tebriz]

I have a naive question. Everytime I start a custom game there is not even a single wheat resourse on the generated map. Am I missing something?

 

[Hydromancerx]

@DRJ

I actually recently asked him if he could make some of his custom units available for download since they seemed to have some great custom art. I am awaiting a response. But overall it looked like the World History Mod would fit right in with the C2C style. I would be happy if he wanted to contribute to C2C.

After all SO, DH and I all had separate mods for RoM/AND and coming together we were able to create the first versions of C2C. Collaboration and team work are a very power tools.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Acularius

What is the most up to date C2C Earth map?