C2C: Promotions

[ls612]

Isn't there any Archery upgrades for the Atl Atl??

Also whom ever does the turn length, either Hydro or ls612, just got to Ancient Era and Agriculture is over 100 turns on Snail???

Man, that's an odd game. You have 0% research, and only two cities, and are STILL losing money. That save was also started before my recent changes, which could contribute to the problems. Could you please post that save?

Also, how are the AIs performing compared to you?

 

[strategyonly]

Man, that's an odd game. You have 0% research, and only two cities, and are STILL losing money. That save was also started before my recent changes, which could contribute to the problems. Could you please post that save?

Also, how are the AIs performing compared to you?

Here ya go, but they are kicking my butt. Lost three cities already in the Prehistoric Era.

 

[ls612]

Here ya go, but they are kicking my butt. Lost three cities already in the Prehistoric Era.

That could explain it. You did OK though in the prehistoric era, it only took 689 or so turns. I am not adjusting the tech cost modifiers in the Prehistoric Era because I don't know what effect the Nomad mod will have on early game progression.

 

[Actuarian]

I've noticed a few issues related to promotions.

First, the looter promotion is available to recon units, but they can't loot.

Second, I don't think the dynamic experience is working properly with units that have a commander attached to them, especially when the unit has the +100% experience promotion. If they do have both promotions battles that normally give you 0.25 xp give you about 3.00 xp, which seems like way too much.

 

[ls612]

I've noticed a few issues related to promotions.

First, the looter promotion is available to recon units, but they can't loot.

<snip>

It was actually only available to Hunter units, but I removed it anyway, as it doesn't really seem thematically appropriate.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

It was actually only available to Hunter units, but I removed it anyway, as it doesn't really seem thematically appropriate.

I had already removed it from the recon units.

 

[ls612]

I had already removed it from the recon units.

Darn, Ninja'd!

 

[Actuarian]

It was actually only available to Hunter units, but I removed it anyway, as it doesn't really seem thematically appropriate.

Sorry, I meant hunter units - they can't pillage either - but you figured it out anyway.

 

[azcore]

Second, I don't think the dynamic experience is working properly with units that have a commander attached to them, especially when the unit has the +100% experience promotion. If they do have both promotions battles that normally give you 0.25 xp give you about 3.00 xp, which seems like way too much.

Yes, I've noticed that as well. In current game I have level 14 Stone Axeman (185xp) due to that effect and I feel it sort of gamebreaking.
I am on last place by troop size in demographics but having good power rating(because of that unit I suspect), so AI fears to attack me. And rightfully so - that unit alone can defeat an army. It seems that AI can't grow such experienced troops, so I fear that gives player very unfair advantage over AI. I will copy that post to Bugs topic.

 

[ls612]

@Hydro and DH: What promotions should I open up for the new armed worker units? I have three ideas/options for this that I'm thinkning of.

1. Open up all promos for that unitcombat that would be open for normal combat units. This would be good in that it would let the combat aspect of the unit scale well, and add another level of strategy for upgrading said units once I get the framework to make the Worker Promotions. It might be OP though.

2. Only open up basic promos like Combat, Guerilla, Woodsman, and a few others to them. This means that their combat role is more limited, but that may be a good thing.

3. Only allow them the promotions that affect their work actions. This would firmly place these units as a work-primary unit, and I don't know how the AI will handle these units then.

What do you two (or anyone else for that matter) think?

 

[Hydromancerx]

I think melee realm or even recon realm of promotions. All terrain ones of course and like you said Combat, Guerilla and Woodsman too. But not the more advanced ones like the purple promotions.

Can they pillage? If so perhaps like Looter, Marauder and Sneak could be used too.

 

[ls612]

I think melee realm or even recon realm of promotions. All terrain ones of course and like you said Combat, Guerilla and Woodsman too. But not the more advanced ones like the purple promotions.

Can they pillage? If so perhaps like Looter, Marauder and Sneak could be used too.

Currently I have the bPillage tag set to 0, so no.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Ok then they would not need those promotions then.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@Hydro and DH: What promotions should I open up for the new armed worker units? I have three ideas/options for this that I'm thinkning of.

1. Open up all promos for that unitcombat that would be open for normal combat units. This would be good in that it would let the combat aspect of the unit scale well, and add another level of strategy for upgrading said units once I get the framework to make the Worker Promotions. It might be OP though.

2. Only open up basic promos like Combat, Guerilla, Woodsman, and a few others to them. This means that their combat role is more limited, but that may be a good thing.

3. Only allow them the promotions that affect their work actions. This would firmly place these units as a work-primary unit, and I don't know how the AI will handle these units then.

What do you two (or anyone else for that matter) think?

It depends on if they are worker units which have some combat strength or combat units with some worker ability.

If we are talking worker units with some combat strength then they should only have access to

- the combat and defensive lines which would include the woodsman and guerilla lines. However they should not be able to get level 3 or above.
- the faster work lines which I don't think promotions support yet.​

Are we going to do similar for boats? I am currently looking at updating the work boat line based on suggestions by Thunderbrd.

 

[ls612]

It depends on if they are worker units which have some combat strength or combat units with some worker ability.

If we are talking worker units with some combat strength then they should only have access to

- the combat and defensive lines which would include the woodsman and guerilla lines. However they should not be able to get level 3 or above.
- the faster work lines which I don't think promotions support yet.​

Are we going to do similar for boats? I am currently looking at updating the work boat line based on suggestions by Thunderbrd.

I'm actually not going to give the 'old' Workers any promotions other than the new Worker-specific ones, and those need to wait for the Expression System. The Combat Workers/Engineers will be combat units that can do work.

I didn't consider Work Boats and their derivatives in this plan, given that they are one-shot, consumable units. I don't know I'd giving them combat strength would have any gameplay benefit.

 

[robomani]

I think that Rife use worker promotion that increase work rate and the workers gain xp by building improvements. At some point they had promo that gave defensive withdrawal chance and defense strength but they removed the later because when they had defensive strength, automated workers no longer run from enemies.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I didn't consider Work Boats and their derivatives in this plan, given that they are one-shot, consumable units. I don't know I'd giving them combat strength would have any gameplay benefit.

they are one shot for the old style improvements. Beacons, Lighthouses and Tunnels don't use up the work boat and take a long time. I will post my suggestions here later.

I think that Rife use worker promotion that increase work rate and the workers gain xp by building improvements. At some point they had promo that gave defensive withdrawal chance and defense strength but they removed the later because when they had defensive strength, automated workers no longer run from enemies.

If you have 20 workers building an improvement does this mean that they all get the XP or only a proportion of the XP. What if the units are inturupted or killed while building an improvement do later workers get full XP for the one turn they spend finishing the build?

 

[robomani]

I'm not sure but from what I remember the xp was awarded per turn in function of the % of the improvement that the unit did so you could just start one stop to go build an other one and return to the first one and still get all your xp. There was an option to have worker just gain xp per turn not from improving but I prefer gaining xp by doing something.

 

[Sgtslick]

perhaps expansive leaders can get a free promotion coz that trait is pretty crap

 

[ls612]

@Hydro: I was just looking through RI, and they have a LOT of promotions that I have not converted yet for C2C. I think that now I am going to go through and convert all of them for C2C.

However, I know that RI has some odd mechanics that don't exist in C2C, and so wanted to ask you if there are any promotions you would like for me to skip in this process. Thanks in advance.