[C2C] Ramkhamhaeng of the Incas
- Thread starter Vokarya
- Start date
Good updateThe real fun comes once you reach Sedentary Lifestyle, and then the real real fun comes when you reach Galactic. But Galactic is... *counts* the 9th era of C2C, and your still on the 1st one.
Something big happens before Sedentary Lifestyle in this game, but yes, Sedentary Lifestyle is a major chokepoint tech.
The Galactic Era is actually pretty empty. There's a lot of techs there, but not many of them give anything. They're soliciting ideas for modern/future projects on the C2C forum now.
The C2C tech tree is vastly expanded, and they keep adding more techs-- like Bicycles. And Zeppelins. And Dada. And Surrealism. Part of this game is going to be discovering how it all fits together in the tree. I haven't played a full game of v16 yet.
SouthernKing
crickety cricket
Yeah, I have not really played much C2C in a while, last game I finished was either v13 or v14. I don't know what is in 15, 15.1, or 16 yet (I have not even DL'd 16)
So, the Incan City State continues to chug along. I get another pop-up, this one for most cultured. I'm #1.
This is very strange. I built my Native Culture early, but I still shouldn't be in the lead, should I? I check and I have 355 total Culture on turn 101. My conclusion is that it is very likely that there are no Creative leaders on this map. I can't tell for sure, but the +2 culture/turn for being Creative should have added up to something, even with -20% culture for Communalism (the default Economic civic) and -25% culture for Irreligion (the default Religion civic); that, plus the Palace culture, should have been about 150 culture alone. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
I finish Axe Making, then Wood Working. I splice in a Lumber Camp (+1 hammer per turn) to speed up the Bandit Hideout.
My difficulty goes up to Monarch. I must be doing well.
I meet two more leaders on the same turn:
Gilgamesh of Portugal...
and Charlemagne of Carthage.
I'm tied with Carthage on points, and a little ahead of Portugal and Scandinavia. I choose peace with both. In case you were wondering, Gilgamesh is not Creative in C2C; he's Agricultural instead, which grants him +1 food on tiles producing 5 or more food and speeds up several food-related buildings (like Granary). Charlemagne and Ramesses haven't changed.
I finish Trapping and start Microlith. Someone builds the Culture (Neanderthal) in a faraway land. Culture (X) allows you to build Civilization X's unique units. Culture (Neanderthal) allows building Strength-4 Neanderthal Warrior units and defense-boosting Neanderthal Caves. Unless it's one of my three current rivals, though, I don't worry too much. It will be obsolete pretty soon.
The Bandit Hideout is done, and I start training a Slinger. Slingers are early Archers; only Strength 2 to the Archer's 4. The unit strength curve is increased compared to regular BTS; Archers are strength 4, Swordsmen come in three strengths of 7-10-13, Musketmen are strength 18, Infantry are 34, Mechanized Infantry are strength 70. It's a lot harder for an early but experienced unit to beat a new modern unit.
Also notice my Espionage has gone negative at the moment. I was generating 4 EP per turn, but I get -5 from the Bandit Hideout.
Microlith is learned, so I research Stone Building, then Fire Making before anything else happens.
With Stone Building, I could actually be Incan if I had some mountain peaks and potatoes. With Native Culture (American), I could build Culture (Incan) with both a Peak and a Potatoes resource in my city vicinity. I don't have either, so I can't build it for now. Yes, this makes the Quechua rush pretty difficult to pull off.
I finally get a border increase. An option I have turned on is Realistic Culture Spread; this makes it require more border expansions to gain control of forest/jungle/hill/mountain tiles. I like it because it lets there be more open land in the early game. It took two border expansions to claim most of my initial fat cross, and there are three forest/hill tiles that I don't control. I now have Marble and Silk available to control. I can use Gatherers to build a Special Stone Workshop to get Marble, but I can't use the Silk yet.
Coming next: We get religious.
Spoiler :
This is very strange. I built my Native Culture early, but I still shouldn't be in the lead, should I? I check and I have 355 total Culture on turn 101. My conclusion is that it is very likely that there are no Creative leaders on this map. I can't tell for sure, but the +2 culture/turn for being Creative should have added up to something, even with -20% culture for Communalism (the default Economic civic) and -25% culture for Irreligion (the default Religion civic); that, plus the Palace culture, should have been about 150 culture alone. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
I finish Axe Making, then Wood Working. I splice in a Lumber Camp (+1 hammer per turn) to speed up the Bandit Hideout.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
My difficulty goes up to Monarch. I must be doing well.
Spoiler :
I meet two more leaders on the same turn:
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
I'm tied with Carthage on points, and a little ahead of Portugal and Scandinavia. I choose peace with both. In case you were wondering, Gilgamesh is not Creative in C2C; he's Agricultural instead, which grants him +1 food on tiles producing 5 or more food and speeds up several food-related buildings (like Granary). Charlemagne and Ramesses haven't changed.
I finish Trapping and start Microlith. Someone builds the Culture (Neanderthal) in a faraway land. Culture (X) allows you to build Civilization X's unique units. Culture (Neanderthal) allows building Strength-4 Neanderthal Warrior units and defense-boosting Neanderthal Caves. Unless it's one of my three current rivals, though, I don't worry too much. It will be obsolete pretty soon.
Spoiler :
The Bandit Hideout is done, and I start training a Slinger. Slingers are early Archers; only Strength 2 to the Archer's 4. The unit strength curve is increased compared to regular BTS; Archers are strength 4, Swordsmen come in three strengths of 7-10-13, Musketmen are strength 18, Infantry are 34, Mechanized Infantry are strength 70. It's a lot harder for an early but experienced unit to beat a new modern unit.
Spoiler :
Also notice my Espionage has gone negative at the moment. I was generating 4 EP per turn, but I get -5 from the Bandit Hideout.
Microlith is learned, so I research Stone Building, then Fire Making before anything else happens.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
With Stone Building, I could actually be Incan if I had some mountain peaks and potatoes. With Native Culture (American), I could build Culture (Incan) with both a Peak and a Potatoes resource in my city vicinity. I don't have either, so I can't build it for now. Yes, this makes the Quechua rush pretty difficult to pull off.
I finally get a border increase. An option I have turned on is Realistic Culture Spread; this makes it require more border expansions to gain control of forest/jungle/hill/mountain tiles. I like it because it lets there be more open land in the early game. It took two border expansions to claim most of my initial fat cross, and there are three forest/hill tiles that I don't control. I now have Marble and Silk available to control. I can use Gatherers to build a Special Stone Workshop to get Marble, but I can't use the Silk yet.
Spoiler :
Coming next: We get religious.
mayor
Heart & Mind
During my RoM games I to have learned to appreciate the Realistic Culture Spread. Has C2C also the Fixed Borders option? caus I just found it to irritating that sometimes resources just didn't fall inside my cultural borders 
anyway: C2C download started
anyway: C2C download started
christos200
Never tell me the odds
Great update. I would download C2C but my computer would crush.
hoplitejoe
Top fun-poster
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2010
- Messages
- 5,470
Could you build a different culture instead then?
During my RoM games I to have learned to appreciate the Realistic Culture Spread. Has C2C also the Fixed Borders option? caus I just found it to irritating that sometimes resources just didn't fall inside my cultural borders
anyway: C2C download started
Yes, C2C has fixed borders with particular civics. I think I start getting fixed borders at Monarchy.
Oh yes. In fact, I think it's kind of fun to see what cultures you can build. I've got a few things in mind to do with cultures later.
Later versions of C2C are going to have many, many more cultures. I suggested a bunch using the extra civilizations from the World of Legends mod.
Having finished the Fire Making technology, I research Cooking, then Carpentry. I'm still researching a lot of basic stuff.
At this point, I finish training a Thief to start exploring again. I lost my Wanderer to a Hyena, and a Scout and a Tracker to Neanderthals. Unlike these units, the Thief is invisible. The Thief cannot enter an occupied square unless it wins a fight, and with only a strength of 2, it won't be doing that very much. However, the animals and Neanderthals can enter the Thief's square without fighting it. Other Thief-type units and Animal units may be able to detect the Thief, and if any of them can see it, other units can attack it. It's more dangerous to use a Thief to enter another civilization's land. The Thief has Hidden Nationality, so it can enter borders without a Right of Passage/Open Borders agreement and can be attacked even if its owner is not at war.
I train a few more Slingers as I discover Tribalism. Tribalism is the big midpoint of the Prehistoric Era, because you can build a Tribe unit. The Tribe is the early version of the Settler, and lets you found a new city. The only problems with the Tribe are it is very expensive for the era, and it is a National Unit with a limit of 1. Once you build a Tribe, it has to found a new city before you can even start building another Tribe. I put off actually building a Tribe just yetthey are pretty expensive.
After Tribalism comes Bone Working, followed by Personal Adornment. While I research Personal Adornment, I get the Most Advanced display and I am 7th. I still don't worry.
I love this dotmap feature. It lets me put down dots that show the locations and tiles for future cities. I mark several locations that I think would be useful, especially near the rivers to the west.
My wandering Thief comes across Portuguese land. Now I know where an enemy is. It also means I want to expand north and west to check Gilgamesh's expansion.
One thing about this particular terrain palette is that certain civilization colors are very hard to see against the landscape. If I wasn't already a yellow civilization, I would use the BUG mod to set my civ's color to a yellow to make it easy to see.
I finish Personal Adornment. This is its short name. Its proper name is "Death to All Neanderthals Everywhere". This is because I can now build Rogues. Rogues are like Thieves, but Strength 3 and 1 first strike. With a little help from suicide Scouts and distraction from other Rogues and Thieves to get their first promotions, these guys become Neanderthal-killing machines.
I research Spear Making, then Sewing.
My Thief gets far enough into Portugal to locate Lisbon.
My first Rogue is done, so now I start training a Tribe. I am looking west, towards the mouth of the nearby river.
Gilgamesh gets a Great Prophet. This is because he is the first to discover Naturopathy. Unlike vanilla Civ4, Caveman to Cosmos currently has TWENTY-SIX religions. I have Divine Prophets on, so each advance that normally triggers the founding of a religion instead spawns a Great Prophet. Great Prophets can spread any religion that you have the technology for into any of your cities. The first city to get a particular religion becomes the holy city. This can lead to what is known sometimes as Jerusalem Syndrome--founding many religions in one city.
Gilgamesh uses his Great Prophet to found Druidic Traditions (which is keyed to Naturopathy) in Lisbon. The first three religions in the gameDruidic Traditions, Shamanism (keyed to the Shamanism tech), and Ngaiism (a South African religion, keyed to Livestock Domestication) automatically spread to every capital on founding. This helps if you can't found a religion of your own. I also have Religion Decay turned on. Religions that are not popular (not your state religion, no buildings, etc.) may decay and disappear from your cities. (The other way to get rid of a religion is through an Inquisition. I haven't actually ever needed to do that).
I can't convert to Druidic Traditions yet. I'm in Folklore right now, which isn't religiously advanced enough to have a state religion. The civics of Prophets and Divine Cult (at Mysticism) will allow that.
Coming next: The first March of the Inca.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
At this point, I finish training a Thief to start exploring again. I lost my Wanderer to a Hyena, and a Scout and a Tracker to Neanderthals. Unlike these units, the Thief is invisible. The Thief cannot enter an occupied square unless it wins a fight, and with only a strength of 2, it won't be doing that very much. However, the animals and Neanderthals can enter the Thief's square without fighting it. Other Thief-type units and Animal units may be able to detect the Thief, and if any of them can see it, other units can attack it. It's more dangerous to use a Thief to enter another civilization's land. The Thief has Hidden Nationality, so it can enter borders without a Right of Passage/Open Borders agreement and can be attacked even if its owner is not at war.
I train a few more Slingers as I discover Tribalism. Tribalism is the big midpoint of the Prehistoric Era, because you can build a Tribe unit. The Tribe is the early version of the Settler, and lets you found a new city. The only problems with the Tribe are it is very expensive for the era, and it is a National Unit with a limit of 1. Once you build a Tribe, it has to found a new city before you can even start building another Tribe. I put off actually building a Tribe just yetthey are pretty expensive.
Spoiler :
After Tribalism comes Bone Working, followed by Personal Adornment. While I research Personal Adornment, I get the Most Advanced display and I am 7th. I still don't worry.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
I love this dotmap feature. It lets me put down dots that show the locations and tiles for future cities. I mark several locations that I think would be useful, especially near the rivers to the west.
Spoiler :
My wandering Thief comes across Portuguese land. Now I know where an enemy is. It also means I want to expand north and west to check Gilgamesh's expansion.
Spoiler :
One thing about this particular terrain palette is that certain civilization colors are very hard to see against the landscape. If I wasn't already a yellow civilization, I would use the BUG mod to set my civ's color to a yellow to make it easy to see.
I finish Personal Adornment. This is its short name. Its proper name is "Death to All Neanderthals Everywhere". This is because I can now build Rogues. Rogues are like Thieves, but Strength 3 and 1 first strike. With a little help from suicide Scouts and distraction from other Rogues and Thieves to get their first promotions, these guys become Neanderthal-killing machines.
Spoiler :
I research Spear Making, then Sewing.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
My Thief gets far enough into Portugal to locate Lisbon.
Spoiler :
My first Rogue is done, so now I start training a Tribe. I am looking west, towards the mouth of the nearby river.
Gilgamesh gets a Great Prophet. This is because he is the first to discover Naturopathy. Unlike vanilla Civ4, Caveman to Cosmos currently has TWENTY-SIX religions. I have Divine Prophets on, so each advance that normally triggers the founding of a religion instead spawns a Great Prophet. Great Prophets can spread any religion that you have the technology for into any of your cities. The first city to get a particular religion becomes the holy city. This can lead to what is known sometimes as Jerusalem Syndrome--founding many religions in one city.
Spoiler :
Gilgamesh uses his Great Prophet to found Druidic Traditions (which is keyed to Naturopathy) in Lisbon. The first three religions in the gameDruidic Traditions, Shamanism (keyed to the Shamanism tech), and Ngaiism (a South African religion, keyed to Livestock Domestication) automatically spread to every capital on founding. This helps if you can't found a religion of your own. I also have Religion Decay turned on. Religions that are not popular (not your state religion, no buildings, etc.) may decay and disappear from your cities. (The other way to get rid of a religion is through an Inquisition. I haven't actually ever needed to do that).
I can't convert to Druidic Traditions yet. I'm in Folklore right now, which isn't religiously advanced enough to have a state religion. The civics of Prophets and Divine Cult (at Mysticism) will allow that.
Spoiler :
Coming next: The first March of the Inca.
One more post to round out the first 200 turns before things start to move.
A forest fire breaks out, and I choose not to replant the forest. I have enough forest and would like some cleared land.
My next technologies are Petroglyphs and Shamanism. I get my own first Great Prophet, Madame Blavatsky. I don't really want to found Shamanism, so I let her sleep for a while. I have other plans for her.
My Rogue makes its first Neanderthal kill and gets Combat I.
I finish researching Bead Making, then research Barter, before starting to research Hunting.
My Thief is casually strolling by a half-dozen Neanderthals, any one of which could easily kill the Thief if they could see it. Compared to what I've seen before, this is light. With the spawn rate turned down and a strategy in mind, Neanderthals have stopped being as much of a threat, and started being targets. We'll see this in the next section.
My second revolution (this one actually requiring real Anarchy) is to the Society/Tribal civic and the Economy/Barter civic. I still don't have much of an economy or society yet, but I am out of the starting blocks.
My Tribe is done, and I pair it up with two Slingers and my starting Stone Thrower to build a city once the Rogues can clean the area of Neanderthals. The blue-circled coastal square that currently has my Rogues standing on it is the target. It's coastal, has a river, and has Corn and Spices. Corn is 1 NW of the site, and Spices is 2 SSW.
Here's my empire on turn 200-- still 1 city, but looking to grow.
Here's the world. To the north is Portugal, to the east and south are ocean, and the west is terra incognita. My Thief is diligently pushing back the frontiers.
There's the first 200 turns. I haven't really done a whole lot yet, but we have a base and we're starting to expand.
A forest fire breaks out, and I choose not to replant the forest. I have enough forest and would like some cleared land.
Spoiler :
My next technologies are Petroglyphs and Shamanism. I get my own first Great Prophet, Madame Blavatsky. I don't really want to found Shamanism, so I let her sleep for a while. I have other plans for her.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
My Rogue makes its first Neanderthal kill and gets Combat I.
Spoiler :
I finish researching Bead Making, then research Barter, before starting to research Hunting.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
My Thief is casually strolling by a half-dozen Neanderthals, any one of which could easily kill the Thief if they could see it. Compared to what I've seen before, this is light. With the spawn rate turned down and a strategy in mind, Neanderthals have stopped being as much of a threat, and started being targets. We'll see this in the next section.
Spoiler :
My second revolution (this one actually requiring real Anarchy) is to the Society/Tribal civic and the Economy/Barter civic. I still don't have much of an economy or society yet, but I am out of the starting blocks.
Spoiler :
My Tribe is done, and I pair it up with two Slingers and my starting Stone Thrower to build a city once the Rogues can clean the area of Neanderthals. The blue-circled coastal square that currently has my Rogues standing on it is the target. It's coastal, has a river, and has Corn and Spices. Corn is 1 NW of the site, and Spices is 2 SSW.
Spoiler :
Here's my empire on turn 200-- still 1 city, but looking to grow.
Spoiler :
Here's the world. To the north is Portugal, to the east and south are ocean, and the west is terra incognita. My Thief is diligently pushing back the frontiers.
Spoiler :
There's the first 200 turns. I haven't really done a whole lot yet, but we have a base and we're starting to expand.
they have alligators as big as cities in this game??
Yes, there a lot of them, and they are a match for the early ships. I lost several early exploration ships to the crocodiles. The crocodiles are strength 2 or 3, and in C2C, galleys are 3, war galleys are 4, and triremes are 6. If your ship gets swarmed, it can sink.
Supposedly, crocodiles can be subdued like other animals, but I've never been able to subdue one.
hoplitejoe
Top fun-poster
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2010
- Messages
- 5,470
Let us not forget the amount of crocodiles you get in the sea 
Another history popup. This time, I'm second in power. Charlemagne is eighth, and my other two rivals are below that.
I get Hunting. This is my first advance that actually appears in vanilla BTS.
My wandering Thief locates Carthaginian land. It's hard to see- it's the dark red one square SW of the Thief. This gives me a good idea of which direction to expand to block everyone.
I discover Warfare next. You can declare war without knowing Warfare, but Warfare is an important step, since it allows you to get City Raider I promotions.
At this point, I decide that Cuzco is built up enough that I can take the time to build Culture (Sioux). The recipe for Sioux culture:
* Grassland or Plains in city vicinity. Check.
* Culture (American). I built this on turn 4. Check.
* Bison resource in city vicinity. I hooked this up around turn 66. Check.
* Nomadic Lifestyle technology. I researched this on turn 2. Check.
There are no Sioux wonders, so the only benefits I get are +1 culture and the ability to build Dog Soldiers.
My Rogues clear the area of Neanderthals enough for me to found the city of Tiwanaku.
I finish building Culture (Sioux). At this point, the other military units I can build (and, presumably, everyone else) are Clubman (Strength 2, +25% city defense), Slinger (Strength 2, +50% city defense), Stone Axeman (Strength 3, +75% vs. melee), Stone Spearman (Strength 3, +50% vs. mounted), and maybe a few other unusual units, but mostly in the strength 2-3 range.
Dog Soldiers are Strength 5. They are also move 2, and +100% vs. melee units.
Strong for this era?
Definitely.
Broken?
Probably.
Am I going to exploit them for all they're worth?
You betcha.
Before I start churning out Dog Soldiers, though, I build a Warrior's Hut. This early version of Barracks gives me +2 XP for Melee units; good enough for one promotion.
Next time: How I learned to stop worrying and love the Neanderthals.
Spoiler :
I get Hunting. This is my first advance that actually appears in vanilla BTS.
Spoiler :
My wandering Thief locates Carthaginian land. It's hard to see- it's the dark red one square SW of the Thief. This gives me a good idea of which direction to expand to block everyone.
Spoiler :
I discover Warfare next. You can declare war without knowing Warfare, but Warfare is an important step, since it allows you to get City Raider I promotions.
Spoiler :
At this point, I decide that Cuzco is built up enough that I can take the time to build Culture (Sioux). The recipe for Sioux culture:
* Grassland or Plains in city vicinity. Check.
* Culture (American). I built this on turn 4. Check.
* Bison resource in city vicinity. I hooked this up around turn 66. Check.
* Nomadic Lifestyle technology. I researched this on turn 2. Check.
There are no Sioux wonders, so the only benefits I get are +1 culture and the ability to build Dog Soldiers.
Spoiler :
My Rogues clear the area of Neanderthals enough for me to found the city of Tiwanaku.
Spoiler :
I finish building Culture (Sioux). At this point, the other military units I can build (and, presumably, everyone else) are Clubman (Strength 2, +25% city defense), Slinger (Strength 2, +50% city defense), Stone Axeman (Strength 3, +75% vs. melee), Stone Spearman (Strength 3, +50% vs. mounted), and maybe a few other unusual units, but mostly in the strength 2-3 range.
Spoiler :
Dog Soldiers are Strength 5. They are also move 2, and +100% vs. melee units.
Strong for this era?
Definitely.
Broken?
Probably.
Am I going to exploit them for all they're worth?
You betcha.
Before I start churning out Dog Soldiers, though, I build a Warrior's Hut. This early version of Barracks gives me +2 XP for Melee units; good enough for one promotion.
Next time: How I learned to stop worrying and love the Neanderthals.
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