strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Nice reference to 'Also sprach Zarathustra'.
Very nice round too. But why do you burn all those cities? You'll get their cultures, and garrisons will tune down revolutions usually.
[C2C] Ramkhamhaeng of the Incas
- Thread starter Vokarya
- Start date
Very nice round too. But why do you burn all those cities? You'll get their cultures, and garrisons will tune down revolutions usually.
hoplitejoe
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Does it not get annoying settling cities with no idea where loads of resources are?
mayor
Heart & Mind
I as thinking the same thing..
I have several reasons for burning cities.
1. Garrisons can hold revolting troops at bay, but revolting cities tend to spawn reinforcements--and there are usually a lot more reinforcements than the original revolution.
2. I'm trying to stay mobile with my wars. I don't usually have the garrison troops available. The troops that burn a city can stay moving onto the next one.
3. I tend to have issues with AI city placement. I like to plot out my city placements and when the AI builds their cities in nearby locations, I like to raze them and put my cities where I think they should be founded.
Edit: 4. I also get slave units for burning cities. It's usually 1 slave per 2 population points of the city burned. Granted, this only lasts as long as I'm running Slavery -- but I keep the slave units after I change civics. I wind up using slaves to build Wonders into the Industrial era.
I use the dotmap to plan fairly comprehensive city coverage. As long as a resource falls within any of my cities, I'm usually happy with that. Plus, cities can expand to radius 3 in C2C, which makes it easier to found a city in a good location and still take advantage of a more-distant resource eventually.
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
1. Yes, you are right there.
2. Well, that city you burned could also have been churning out garrisons, but ok.
3. Completely right, but capital sites are usually good sites. This mod, however, might put a slight twist in that.
4. Why do you sacrifice them? Imagine settling 20 slaves in the same city as citizens
shouldn't that give a runaway effect? With more slaves settled, you can produce more troops, which can capture more slaves - and so on.
I'd be just a little careful about that, since the mod team is actively making changes. I'm still playing v16 since I started with that. v17 is already out, and there are more plans coming. The latest is a Heroes system like that of the World of Legends mod. I have that and I've been analyzing it for stuff that can be stolen (I like the Scarborough Fair wonder).
4. Why do you sacrifice them? Imagine settling 20 slaves in the same city as citizens
I'm usually sacrificing slaves to build Wonders where I know that another civ has the technology to build the Wonder I'm after, or at least suspect it. You're right, I don't always take things into account properly.
A short update to bring the turn count up to 300.
My next tech is Obsidian Weapons. This gives me the very powerful Tomahawk Thrower -- a Strength 4 Archery unit with +100% defense vs. Chariot (removed in later versions of the mod) and +50% vs. Melee. These are one of my garrison mainstays through the Ancient/Classical Era, until Longbows and Crossbows come along.
I revolt to three new civics at this point: Chiefdom (a Government civic that finally breaks the 3 city cap), Caste (a Society civic), and Divine Cult (a Religion civic that finally allows a State Religion). I'm intending to convert to Zoroastrianism eventually once it spreads a little.
Here's what my empire looks like on turn 300. I have 3 cities, with a Settler en route to found a 4th.
Here's what I know of the world. I've cleared out the west half of the continent and am looking to start expanding. Gilgamesh is my only remaining rival that I know of, and he's slightly ahead of me on points -- but I should start catching up once I can found more cities.
Next time: Drawing the line.
My next tech is Obsidian Weapons. This gives me the very powerful Tomahawk Thrower -- a Strength 4 Archery unit with +100% defense vs. Chariot (removed in later versions of the mod) and +50% vs. Melee. These are one of my garrison mainstays through the Ancient/Classical Era, until Longbows and Crossbows come along.
Spoiler :
I revolt to three new civics at this point: Chiefdom (a Government civic that finally breaks the 3 city cap), Caste (a Society civic), and Divine Cult (a Religion civic that finally allows a State Religion). I'm intending to convert to Zoroastrianism eventually once it spreads a little.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Here's what my empire looks like on turn 300. I have 3 cities, with a Settler en route to found a 4th.
Spoiler :
Here's what I know of the world. I've cleared out the west half of the continent and am looking to start expanding. Gilgamesh is my only remaining rival that I know of, and he's slightly ahead of me on points -- but I should start catching up once I can found more cities.
Spoiler :
Next time: Drawing the line.
hoplitejoe
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for the empire over view 
Turn 301 starts and I get another power popup. After destroying 2 civilizations and razing 5 cities, I am #2 in power. This is a good place to be, as I'm ahead of Gilgamesh.
I found Ollantaytambo along the river from Machu Picchu. I'm trying to check Gilgamesh's expansion while I bring my units back up.
Moai Statues is a World Wonder in this game thus a warning when it's built. Several of the former National Wonders have been converted to World Wonders, like Moai, Hermitage, Wall Street, and West Point.
I decide to give my Workers something to do. They've been building Paths to connect my cities. Connecting cities, even with Paths, is good to keep instability down. I research Slash and Burn, followed by Agriculture.
Slash and Burn lets me burn forests and jungles. This gives no hammers. I will get hammers for clearing forest at Bronze Working, and for clearing Jungle at Iron Working.
Agriculture, of course, lets me build Farms. I have a lot of River squares that would love Farms.
Zoroastrianism spreads pretty quicklyI founded it 15 turns ago, and it has spread to all my cities thanks to the Shrine and a Temple. I should have converted now, but I forgot.
Next up is Spearfishing, followed by Archery. I like to use two Archer units and two Tomahawk Throwers as an early garrison for each city.
The Wedding Collapse event takes place. I wish I had better relations with Gilgamesh, but I'm resigned to glaring at him for a while.
With Archery in place and giving me good defensive units, I go for Pottery. I have a strong stack of units, but Gilgamesh is Protective and has good defensive units of his own. I actually tried war with him twice; I couldn't take Oporto with a frontal attack, and I couldn't hold Lisbon. What I should have done was burn Lisbon and chop up the rest of his cities. I instead decide to have my stack glare at him while I build up and launch a Classical-era war. You can see I have 8 Dog Soldiers, plus 2 Hand Rams (an early siege unit) and a Healer. The Hand Rams are unusual in that they have XP but there is absolutely nothing for them to promote to. The first promotion they can get is Drill I, and I won't be able to do that until I get Military Training.
Pottery is necessary for Mining, so that comes next.
I get the Illyrian Pirates event. I don't worry about War Galleys, since I don't have any seafood and am not really planning on building ships until I get Caravels. I have enough land to settle right now. War Galleys are a hybrid of Galley and Trireme; Strength 4 (Galley is 3, Trireme is 5) with 1 cargo space.
Next is The Wheel. I can now upgrade my Paths to Mud Paths, the first road improvement that offers faster movement.
Copper Working comes next. I have no Copper in my civ yet.
This was quite funny while I was moving another settler into place.
My Rogue had subdued a Hyena, and then another barbarian unit attacked the Subdued Hyena. Rogues can't defend because they can't be seen, but when it attacked back, it re-re-captured the Hyena. There are actually a lot of conversions and captures allowed in C2C; Workers can be traded or captured, as can siege units and ships.
I found Corihuayrachina in the northeast of my empire to block Gilgamesh on that flank. I hope this will also later serve as a jumping-off point for a direct attack on Lisbon. I now have Gilgamesh checked in the east, but the west is a different story.
Next time: The buildup to Monarchy.
Spoiler :
I found Ollantaytambo along the river from Machu Picchu. I'm trying to check Gilgamesh's expansion while I bring my units back up.
Spoiler :
Moai Statues is a World Wonder in this game thus a warning when it's built. Several of the former National Wonders have been converted to World Wonders, like Moai, Hermitage, Wall Street, and West Point.
Spoiler :
I decide to give my Workers something to do. They've been building Paths to connect my cities. Connecting cities, even with Paths, is good to keep instability down. I research Slash and Burn, followed by Agriculture.
Slash and Burn lets me burn forests and jungles. This gives no hammers. I will get hammers for clearing forest at Bronze Working, and for clearing Jungle at Iron Working.
Spoiler :
Agriculture, of course, lets me build Farms. I have a lot of River squares that would love Farms.
Spoiler :
Zoroastrianism spreads pretty quicklyI founded it 15 turns ago, and it has spread to all my cities thanks to the Shrine and a Temple. I should have converted now, but I forgot.
Spoiler :
Next up is Spearfishing, followed by Archery. I like to use two Archer units and two Tomahawk Throwers as an early garrison for each city.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
The Wedding Collapse event takes place. I wish I had better relations with Gilgamesh, but I'm resigned to glaring at him for a while.
Spoiler :
With Archery in place and giving me good defensive units, I go for Pottery. I have a strong stack of units, but Gilgamesh is Protective and has good defensive units of his own. I actually tried war with him twice; I couldn't take Oporto with a frontal attack, and I couldn't hold Lisbon. What I should have done was burn Lisbon and chop up the rest of his cities. I instead decide to have my stack glare at him while I build up and launch a Classical-era war. You can see I have 8 Dog Soldiers, plus 2 Hand Rams (an early siege unit) and a Healer. The Hand Rams are unusual in that they have XP but there is absolutely nothing for them to promote to. The first promotion they can get is Drill I, and I won't be able to do that until I get Military Training.
Spoiler :
Pottery is necessary for Mining, so that comes next.
Spoiler :
I get the Illyrian Pirates event. I don't worry about War Galleys, since I don't have any seafood and am not really planning on building ships until I get Caravels. I have enough land to settle right now. War Galleys are a hybrid of Galley and Trireme; Strength 4 (Galley is 3, Trireme is 5) with 1 cargo space.
Spoiler :
Next is The Wheel. I can now upgrade my Paths to Mud Paths, the first road improvement that offers faster movement.
Spoiler :
Copper Working comes next. I have no Copper in my civ yet.
Spoiler :
This was quite funny while I was moving another settler into place.
Spoiler :
My Rogue had subdued a Hyena, and then another barbarian unit attacked the Subdued Hyena. Rogues can't defend because they can't be seen, but when it attacked back, it re-re-captured the Hyena. There are actually a lot of conversions and captures allowed in C2C; Workers can be traded or captured, as can siege units and ships.
I found Corihuayrachina in the northeast of my empire to block Gilgamesh on that flank. I hope this will also later serve as a jumping-off point for a direct attack on Lisbon. I now have Gilgamesh checked in the east, but the west is a different story.
Spoiler :
Next time: The buildup to Monarchy.
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
hoplitejoe
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- Mar 22, 2010
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Pointless adjective is pointless.
A little mini-update for a couple of technologies I missed posting earlier.
Masonry tech came between Mining and The Wheel.
Masonry is useful, of course, for Walls. It also unlocks both the Pyramids and the Sphinx wonders. If, and it's a very big if, you can build both the Pyramids and the Sphinx in the same city, it unlocks the Valley of the Kings wonder.
+5 health AND a free technology AND a Golden Age AND 2 Great Doctor points from one wonder. It's a very powerful combination. Unfortunately, by the time I researched Masonry, the Sphinx was built on that turn.
I researched Metal Casting after Copper Working and before founding Corihuayrachina. Metal Casting has been switched to before Bronze Working, so you get MC and its Forges in the Ancient Era instead of having to wait until the Classical era. I think A New Dawn lowered the Forge to +15% production, but in C2C they're still at the full +25% production.
Masonry tech came between Mining and The Wheel.
Spoiler :
Masonry is useful, of course, for Walls. It also unlocks both the Pyramids and the Sphinx wonders. If, and it's a very big if, you can build both the Pyramids and the Sphinx in the same city, it unlocks the Valley of the Kings wonder.
Spoiler :
+5 health AND a free technology AND a Golden Age AND 2 Great Doctor points from one wonder. It's a very powerful combination. Unfortunately, by the time I researched Masonry, the Sphinx was built on that turn.
I researched Metal Casting after Copper Working and before founding Corihuayrachina. Metal Casting has been switched to before Bronze Working, so you get MC and its Forges in the Ancient Era instead of having to wait until the Classical era. I think A New Dawn lowered the Forge to +15% production, but in C2C they're still at the full +25% production.
Spoiler :
At this point, I really want Monarchy. The research path to Monarchy starts with Trade.
I revolt to the two new civics that Trade unlocks: the Charity welfare civic and the Trade Language language civic. It's a big help that Native Language and Trade Language are no longer the National Wonders they used to be in previous versions; since they required the Palace, they were a big drain on your capital's national wonder limit.
I get a size popup at turn 351, showing me in the lead followed by Gilgamesh in second. If I can stay ahead of Gilgamesh, I can stay ahead of everyone else. I hope to start playing Conquistador once Gilgamesh is defeated.
On the heels of the Wedding Failure event comes the Religious Wedding Failure event. I choose to take only the -1 penalty as I'm trying to avoid Gilgamesh declaring war on me until I'm ready to declare war on him.
Another civilization beats me to the Pyramids. I really wanted this wonder, both for the Great Engineer points and its C2C effect. The Pyramids of C2C give you a free Irrigation Canals in every city, which provides +1 food in each river square. All five of my cities were built on or near rivers, so it would have really helped them.
Bronze Working comes next, and is the first direct prerequisite for Monarchy. I could revolt to Despotism now, but I'd rather wait for Monarchy. I already triggered the discovery of Copper with the Copper Working technology. I really hope I have Iron when that rolls around.
After Bronze Working is Writing, the second direct prerequisite. Writing does enable tech trading for me.
The third requirement for Monarchy is Monotheism, so I research that next.
With Monotheism comes a Great Prophet, to use to found Judaism if I want. I don't really want to found Judaism, because I'd rather use the Great Prophets to research several advances in a row and I don't want another religion in my civilization to cause more instability. Having multiple religions in your civilization early on is another good way to get revolts, and I'm really trying to avoid them. The other thing I realized is that by passing up founding the religions early on, AI civilizations will use Great Prophets earned with GPP to found religions. This will help spread them out a little.
My Great Prophet this time is Nietzche.
I use Nietzche to chain into Meditation, which gets me another Great Prophet (this one for Buddhism), and then immediately chain that Prophet into Polytheism, which spawns another Great Prophet for Hinduism. I have to stop here because the next Great Prophet technology is Sculptures, which does not found a religion and I don't really need for a long time.
The technology prerequisites for these techs have been shuffled around a bit to try and keep one civ from getting all the religions. Monotheism requires Masonry + Sacrifice Cult + Writing. Meditation requires only Monotheism. Polytheism requires Dualism + Masonry + Priesthood + Sacrifice Cult.
Researching Meditation gets me into the Classical Era.
I found the city of Huamanga east of Cuzco in a nice open city spot.
One more city would put me at the limit for Chiefdom (my current government civic), so I would have to either revolt to Despotism or finish Monarchy to build more cities than that. Fortunately, Monarchy is done.
Monarchy lets me build real Roads and gives me the first government civic without a cap on the number of cities I can found.
Next time: The first Great Revolution.
Spoiler :
I revolt to the two new civics that Trade unlocks: the Charity welfare civic and the Trade Language language civic. It's a big help that Native Language and Trade Language are no longer the National Wonders they used to be in previous versions; since they required the Palace, they were a big drain on your capital's national wonder limit.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
I get a size popup at turn 351, showing me in the lead followed by Gilgamesh in second. If I can stay ahead of Gilgamesh, I can stay ahead of everyone else. I hope to start playing Conquistador once Gilgamesh is defeated.
Spoiler :
On the heels of the Wedding Failure event comes the Religious Wedding Failure event. I choose to take only the -1 penalty as I'm trying to avoid Gilgamesh declaring war on me until I'm ready to declare war on him.
Spoiler :
Another civilization beats me to the Pyramids. I really wanted this wonder, both for the Great Engineer points and its C2C effect. The Pyramids of C2C give you a free Irrigation Canals in every city, which provides +1 food in each river square. All five of my cities were built on or near rivers, so it would have really helped them.
Spoiler :
Bronze Working comes next, and is the first direct prerequisite for Monarchy. I could revolt to Despotism now, but I'd rather wait for Monarchy. I already triggered the discovery of Copper with the Copper Working technology. I really hope I have Iron when that rolls around.
Spoiler :
After Bronze Working is Writing, the second direct prerequisite. Writing does enable tech trading for me.
Spoiler :
The third requirement for Monarchy is Monotheism, so I research that next.
Spoiler :
With Monotheism comes a Great Prophet, to use to found Judaism if I want. I don't really want to found Judaism, because I'd rather use the Great Prophets to research several advances in a row and I don't want another religion in my civilization to cause more instability. Having multiple religions in your civilization early on is another good way to get revolts, and I'm really trying to avoid them. The other thing I realized is that by passing up founding the religions early on, AI civilizations will use Great Prophets earned with GPP to found religions. This will help spread them out a little.
My Great Prophet this time is Nietzche.
Spoiler :
I use Nietzche to chain into Meditation, which gets me another Great Prophet (this one for Buddhism), and then immediately chain that Prophet into Polytheism, which spawns another Great Prophet for Hinduism. I have to stop here because the next Great Prophet technology is Sculptures, which does not found a religion and I don't really need for a long time.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
The technology prerequisites for these techs have been shuffled around a bit to try and keep one civ from getting all the religions. Monotheism requires Masonry + Sacrifice Cult + Writing. Meditation requires only Monotheism. Polytheism requires Dualism + Masonry + Priesthood + Sacrifice Cult.
Researching Meditation gets me into the Classical Era.
Spoiler :
I found the city of Huamanga east of Cuzco in a nice open city spot.
Spoiler :
One more city would put me at the limit for Chiefdom (my current government civic), so I would have to either revolt to Despotism or finish Monarchy to build more cities than that. Fortunately, Monarchy is done.
Spoiler :
Monarchy lets me build real Roads and gives me the first government civic without a cap on the number of cities I can found.
Next time: The first Great Revolution.
mayor
Heart & Mind
Monarchy still gives you angry people, right?
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Nice!
hoplitejoe
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Actually, no. We'll see the civic in the next update, but Monarchy actually removes an unhappiness penalty from earlier Government civics and negates all unhappiness in the capital. It's still not a completely stable government, but it's less unstable than the previous forms, so it's definitely worth switching to.
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