C2C - Transhuman Era

[Azurian]

I assume you mean a building upgrade

Ill use upgrade. the correct spelling is Anti-Ballistic Missile.

I have the Techxml and everything done for x79-90 already if that helps.

dont forget gesture recognition above.

 

[Hydromancerx]

is this better?

Also the techs it leads to should have their normal names and not the tag name.

And I though you said only 2 today.

Don't keep adding more techs to review until ls612, Vokarya and I have either approved or disapproved the current proposed techs.

Basically we should come to a unanimous conclusion when passing or disapproving. If we cannot agree then it gets put aside to be reviewed again later. Possibly with some changes.

 

[Azurian]

Also the techs it leads to should have their normal names and not the tag name.

And I though you said only 2 today.

Don't keep adding more techs to review until ls612, Vokarya and I have either approved or disapproved the current proposed techs.

Basically we should come to a unanimous conclusion when passing or disapproving. If we cannot agree then it gets put aside to be reviewed again later. Possibly with some changes.

well..

An anti-ballistic missile (ABM) is a missile designed to counter ballistic missiles (a missile for missile defense). A ballistic missile is used to deliver nuclear, chemical, biological or conventional warheads in a ballistic flight trajectory. The term "anti-ballistic missile" describes any antimissile system designed to counter ballistic missiles. However the term is used more commonly for systems designed to counter intercontinental ballistic missiles

The Techs Ingame x79-90
use this as a guide i guess

Spoiler :

 

[ls612]

I'm fine with those three techs, with two caveats. First, The leads to and prereqs need to be adjusted for the new tech setup, ie deleted techs needn't be mentioned in the "leads to" section. The second caveat is that I'm not sure about all of the things that a tech enables. I'm not approving or making any of those yet.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Good point. We should state we are approving the specific tech and not necessarily the units/building they enable. Those will have to be proposed later once we start making units and buildings for those eras.

 

[ls612]

Good point. We should state we are approving the specific tech and not necessarily the units/building they enable. Those will have to be proposed later once we start making units and buildings for those eras.

That's good. Do you have any ideas for cutting another 5 to 10 techs from the first Hal of the TH era? Then I think I can bring the Transhuman Era down to about 100 techs total, which is my goal.

 

[Hydromancerx]

What is the number of techs have to do with anything?

 

[ls612]

What is the number of techs have to do with anything?

Mostly balancing. Having each of the two future eras have approximately 100 techs means that the future eras fit nicely in the current gamespeeds. I think that having 200 techs beyond the modern era will strike a balance between history and future, as well as it will be easier to keep the AI competitive to the end.

Currently this batch of techs has 75 techs, and I think I can work MrAzure's Cyber and Nano ideas down to 35 techs. That means that I need to find 5 or so techs to drop, in addition to my cuts this morning and this afternoon. I don't have many good candidates fir removal anymore, so I thought I'd ask you. If you don't have any deletion suggestions, I'm OK I guess with 110 techs in the TH era.

 

[Vokarya]

My thoughts on the first three techs:

Cyberwarfare: This looks good. I think cyberwarfare is going to be a huge part of late-game warfare (at least assuming equal tech levels), so mark this one approved.

Gesture Recognition: If I was doing a Transhuman Era, this is a tech that I would never have considered, but I think it is a really good idea. I would like to ask why the prerequisites are what they are. It does not seem to me that War Simulations has a lot to do with Gesture Recognition. Did Bioinformatics get removed? (Bioinformatics + Cloud Computing), which is what I have on the tree right now, seems to be a better fit. If Bioinformatics is gone, I would actually go with (Cloud Computing + Virtual Reality). I'm not a big fan of two techs having exactly the same prerequisites, and that's what you are suggesting for both Cyberwarfare and Gesture Recognition.

Anti-Ballistic Missiles: I can approve of this one, but I would like to point out a couple things.

1. I almost think there is something broader here that could fit, and that Anti-Ballistic Missiles is part of the bigger technology. On the other hand, this would be so significant to the way that warfare is conducted (by creating a working shield against ICBMs) that it almost has to be a technology to itself, the same way we have Matchlock and Flintlock as warfare-changers. So I'm not going to veto the tech based on that. It almost reminds me of Civilization 3's Integrated Defense technology at the very end of the tech tree.

2. The name should be Anti-Ballistic Missiles. Two words, hyphenated, plural on the Missiles. It seems to look and sound better that way. I'm not sure where the line is between techs that do get a plural (like Automatic Weapons or Conglomerates) and techs that don't (like Matchlock or Stirrup) but Anti-Ballistic Missiles seems to look much better with the S.

3. Remove Modern Warfare from the prerequisites. It's already required for both Unmanned Air Vehicles and War Simulations.

 

[Vokarya]

Good point. We should state we are approving the specific tech and not necessarily the units/building they enable. Those will have to be proposed later once we start making units and buildings for those eras.

Agreed. Let's put together the tech tree as a scaffolding. Then we can start adding content to the techs.

 

[Azurian]

@ Vokarya
@hydro
@ls612



This should help in your planning. I would bookmark this post.

Digital Age Schema

Spoiler :

The Techs Ingame x79-90

Spoiler :

@ Vokarya
(Bioinformatics + Cloud Computing) it works, look up its stiill there.


@Hydro
-Let me know when to post Animal Rights, Biomaterials, and E-Learning on here next

Good point. We should state we are approving the specific tech and not necessarily the units/building they enable. Those will have to be proposed later once we start making units and buildings for those eras.

Buildings approval is all you, im just posted what i beleive goes in the tech.

What is the number of techs have to do with anything?

I will leave that up to you, i think it should be tech by tech basis.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@ls612

Didn't you suggest that Gesture Recognition get merged with Cognitive Robotics merged into Machine Learning?

I am thinking for my votes ....

Cyberwarfare = Approved
Anti-Ballistic Missiles = Approved (with Vokarya's changes)
Gesture Recognition = Disapproved (unless someone can convince me otherwise)

Vokarya and ls612 what are your votes so we can move on to the next set?

 

[Azurian]

@ls612

Didn't you suggest that Gesture Recognition get merged with Cognitive Robotics merged into Machine Learning?

I am thinking for my votes ....

Cyberwarfare = Approved
Anti-Ballistic Missiles = Approved (with Vokarya's changes)
Gesture Recognition = Disapproved (unless someone can convince me otherwise)

Vokarya and ls612 what are your votes so we can move on to the next set?

Dont you think to be able to communicate with a machine other than speech or type is a human achievement?
Without gesture recognition there would be no:

: CGI movies that use FX effects
: xbox 260 or ps3 games (gesture recognition is needed for facial and body emotions)
: computer sign language
: prosthetics
: Cognitive robotics. Asimov would not exist!
: proper sensors (accelerometers and gyros)
:Control through facial gestures
: Alternative computer interfaces.
:motion remote control
:xbox kinect
: Apple iphone
:touchscreens
:digital motion detectors
:home automation
: the new MRI scanner
:neurotechnology
:no 3d television
:no augmented reality
:NO MICROSOFT SURFACE

Gesture recognition is a topic in computer science and language technology with the goal of interpreting human gestures via mathematical algorithms. Gestures can originate from any bodily motion or state but commonly originate from the face or hand. Current focuses in the field include emotion recognition from the face and hand gesture recognition. Many approaches have been made using cameras and computer vision algorithms to interpret sign language. However, the identification and recognition of posture, gait, proxemics, and human behaviors is also the subject of gesture recognition techniques.[1]

Gesture recognition can be seen as a way for computers to begin to understand human body language, thus building a richer bridge between machines and humans than primitive text user interfaces or even GUIs (graphical user interfaces), which still limit the majority of input to keyboard and mouse.

EDIT:


Link to video.


Link to video.

 

[Koshling]

@ls612

Didn't you suggest that Gesture Recognition get merged with Cognitive Robotics merged into Machine Learning?

I am thinking for my votes ....

Cyberwarfare = Approved
Anti-Ballistic Missiles = Approved (with Vokarya's changes)
Gesture Recognition = Disapproved (unless someone can convince me otherwise)

Vokarya and ls612 what are your votes so we can move on to the next set?

I certainly think gesture recognition is not the same as machine learning (MrAzure cites examples from toady's technology). Rather it's part of an advancement in HCI (human-computer interaction).

The question (IMO) is not whether it belongs in machine learning (it doesn't), it's whether it is signifincant enough to warrant a technology all of its own in gameplay terms (I'm on the fence). However, HCI generally should have some representation (I haven't checked the tree well enough to see if it does yet - if it does it might be the correct merger point), and could appear and merge things like gesture recognition, speech recognition, expression recognition. All of those would naturally form 'advanced HCI' though that's a crappy name. Because good HCI allows humans to use computers more naturally and more effectively it IS significant as it makes existing computer technology more accessable and effective, allowing it to penetrate a broader spectrum of human activities (+1 prod or science to various computer-related buildings, +1 science to the e-eductaion civic...)

 

[ls612]

I certainly think gesture recognition is not the same as machine learning (MrAzure cites examples from toady's technology). Rather it's part of an advancement in HCI (human-computer interaction).

The question (IMO) is not whether it belongs in machine learning (it doesn't), it's whether it is signifincant enough to warrant a technology all of its own in gameplay terms (I'm on the fence). However, HCI generally should have some representation (I haven't checked the tree well enough to see if it does yet - if it does it might be the correct merger point), and could appear and merge things like gesture recognition, speech recognition, expression recognition. All of those would naturally form 'advanced HCI' though that's a crappy name. Because good HCI allows humans to use computers more naturally and more effectively it IS significant as it makes existing computer technology more accessable and effective, allowing it to penetrate a broader spectrum of human activities (+1 prod or science to various computer-related buildings, +1 science to the e-eductaion civic...)

Well, I suppose yes Gesture recognition is not the same as Machine learning, but It is connected to it in that with Machine Learning computers will become better over time at doing things like Gesture recognition. I did not think that Gesture Recognition was an important enough concept to warrant a tech, and the nearest tech I had to it was Machine Learning, so that is where it went.

@Hydro:

Do you have any issues with my second round of deletions in post #414? Also looking at the techs in X78 and X79 are already becoming a reality today, so perhaps those techs should be in the Modern Era, instead of the TH era? Also, Doh on not realizing I had already disapproved Gesture Recognition when I approved it yesterday, I really need to pay more attention.

@MrAzure:

I'm going to PM you with my list of your ideas that I think qualify as techs for the second half or so of the Transhuman Era.

 

[Galacticat42]

I certainly disagree with those recognitions as being technologies since they really aren't, even in real life. All a gesture recognition is is just a compilation of code that tells the computer what behaviors it should look for. Take the xbox Kinect for example. That is just one in an infinitely many ways of achieving human recognition and as one of the general C2C tech rules state, it must be a benchmark to make it and the types of recognition are not benchmarks in of themselves but building blocks to a benchmark. And it is a fairly minute benchmark at that - it's easily achievable with a team of five if you have a computer and a camera.

 

[ls612]

I certainly disagree with those recognitions as being technologies since they really aren't, even in real life. All a gesture recognition is is just a compilation of code that tells the computer what behaviors it should look for. Take the xbox Kinect for example. That is just one in an infinitely many ways of achieving human recognition and as one of the general C2C tech rules state, it must be a benchmark to make it and the types of recognition are not benchmarks in of themselves but building blocks to a benchmark. And it is a fairly minute benchmark at that - it's easily achievable with a team of five if you have a computer and a camera.

And that is why I merged anything that went with it into Machine Learning. Do you have any problems with the other two that MrAzure posted?

 

[Koshling]

I certainly disagree with those recognitions as being technologies since they really aren't, even in real life. All a gesture recognition is is just a compilation of code that tells the computer what behaviors it should look for. Take the xbox Kinect for example. That is just one in an infinitely many ways of achieving human recognition and as one of the general C2C tech rules state, it must be a benchmark to make it and the types of recognition are not benchmarks in of themselves but building blocks to a benchmark. And it is a fairly minute benchmark at that - it's easily achievable with a team of five if you have a computer and a camera.

Sorry, I cannot subscribe to this argument because it is basically saying 'no software-based advancement can be considered a technology' (because it's 'just' code).

That basically invalidates mot of the digital era as techs. It's like saying 'anything made of metal is just metal-working'. The HRADWARE that runs the code is what is not unqiue tech unless it is qualatively different from earlier hardware. So in your example Kinect is just an instantiation of the basic recognition tech (which is software).

 

[Koshling]

And that is why I merged anything that went with it into Machine Learning. Do you have any problems with the other two that MrAzure posted?

No, but I still fairly strongly disagree wih this one.

 

[Galacticat42]

@IS612

After reading a page back, yea...

The ABM tech should go. It's more of a way to use a compilation of other techs rather than a tech of itself. If anything it would be best as a team project for anti-nuke protection which is already in the game thanks to me and the Advanced Nukes Mod.

As for Cyberwarfare... it's like the mafia - it's not a tech, it's undesirable and it be best left alone as the internet firewall that's already in the game.