C2C - Transhuman Era

Ok, I know we're talking about reworking guilds... and I'm all for that. But what's this about reworking the corporation system? I rather like the corporation system... if used right its one of the most powerful tools in civ4 on a lot of strategic levels. Now... adding new corporations and revamping the resources used on current corporations seems in order eventually, and some powerful new corps for Megacorporations tech sounds awesome. But what do we need to rework the whole system for?
 
Ok, I know we're talking about reworking guilds... and I'm all for that. But what's this about reworking the corporation system? I rather like the corporation system... if used right its one of the most powerful tools in civ4 on a lot of strategic levels. Now... adding new corporations and revamping the resources used on current corporations seems in order eventually, and some powerful new corps for Megacorporations tech sounds awesome. But what do we need to rework the whole system for?

Well I was not going to touch the corporations (Vanilla or RoM/AND), mainly because we need something to fill that role. However I was thinking that we could still have "guild-like" national wonders in the modern era and beyond and call them "unions" or "franchises". These would work exactly like the new guilds system in that they give free buildings and would not effect the existing corporations.

I have no plans for new Corporations or Megacorporations. However that dosn't mean we can't make new ones. I just did not plan anything yet.
 
Hey everyone, first post here. I've been a fan of this project for a long time now, but never really got around to submit my ideas, but here goes nothing:

I was thinking that for megacorporations, instead of making new corporations, you would instead expand on the already existing ones and make them "bigger".
An idea I had for this was that when you have spread a corporation to a certain amount of cities, and if you also control the corporation headquarters, you would get the option to build a World Project (or Great Wonder) that would give you certain benefits, such as increased science output in all cities, or some building built in all cities.

Example:

I recall there being a corporation in C2C that had something to do with hotels. For that corporation a possible way to make this work would be that when you meet the requirements, you could build a World Project called "New Horizons" (for example), which would indicate this corporation's ambition to expand their hotels into space.
Once built, the project would give a bonus to your spaceship production and science output (due to private investments in the technology). Alternatively you could have some building called "Space Hotel" (not sure if there is one like that in C2C) built in every city.

So, this is what I would consider for the concept of megacorporations. What do you think?
 
Well I was not going to touch the corporations (Vanilla or RoM/AND), mainly because we need something to fill that role. However I was thinking that we could still have "guild-like" national wonders in the modern era and beyond and call them "unions" or "franchises". These would work exactly like the new guilds system in that they give free buildings and would not effect the existing corporations.

I have no plans for new Corporations or Megacorporations. However that dosn't mean we can't make new ones. I just did not plan anything yet.

I was more thinking of balancing the existing corps and adding new planetary corporations (they don't spread to cities, they only spread to planets on the Solar System and Galactic Maps).
 
Ok... whew. Sounds much better to me. Sorry for the sudden flipout. I just know there's been a number of people who weren't very corporation positive and was worried that sentiment had grown to push for an elimination and rework of the fundamental concept. I can help design some corporations down the road. It was my first goal when I initially tried to mod but that was a long time ago and it went nowhere there but to serve as an introduction to the complexity of modding.
 
@Thunderbrd

It would be nice to go over existing corporations and factor in some of the new resources though.

And make their bonuses (and costs) balanced. That has been an issue with Inflation and Neg Gold as Maintainence, that corp costs will make things unplayable at some point. Maybe that is an inflation issue though.
 
From what I understood from the conversation with Koshling when he was setting that up, its not CORPORATE maintenance that is affected by his -gold system, thus insulating the corporation from those effects. Inflation is also being resolved to a better method and I hope in the process that corporations are given full consideration under that new system but I trust it will be.

I agree we should to that Hydro. Its certainly something I'd like to help with but for a while yet the combat mods will have my full attention. I think we have a lot of room during such a review to also add a lot of new corporations. There was some old discussion during AND days that included corporations being necessary to create certain resources, which other corps would then further utilize. The whole thing could be quite complex and intriguing from a number of strategic angles.

One thing that could help the corporation system balance out a bit better would be to have a number of corporations able to achieve equivalent power to other incompatible competitors such that no nation is left to rot for not having been able to get there first.
 
@Vokarya:

How is progress on this so far?

Working on it - it's way more complex than I thought, but this is not necessarily a bad thing. I'm getting a good handle on about the first third of it at this point.

Right now, I am trying to synthesize all of the following:
  • The existing techs in the XML
  • The proposed layout in post 400 (which has a lot of new stuff that I don't quite understand)
  • The additional suggestions from posts 407, 409, 414, 442, 447, and 474 (which are a little confusing, but I will post once I get a full tree done)

I'm putting together a couple different spreadsheets and lists to figure out what exactly everyone wants and how to make it a coherent tree.
 
Here is another recent blog of the Timeline of future events from science fiction.
http://www.theawl.com/2012/08/a-timeline-of-future-events

"While some predictions of science fiction have come to pass, if we were to compile a calendar of future events based on speculative fiction (taking in works from both science fiction and fantasy genres), we would run some hazards—not least the natural reluctance of authors to affix specific dates to their imaginings. Think, for instance, of the novels set in the not-too-distant (Man Plus) or far, far future (Ender’s Game), or perhaps a dystopic future (Farhenheit 451, Anthem) such as, oh, after some apocalyptic event (The Last Man, Oryx and Crake), not to mention those that follow alternate time (Foundation series) and world systems (Anathem) entirely. By leaving their dates murky, writers allow their predictions the possibility of eventually coming true."

So here is another good argument for having future technology placed variably in time. It also makes for a good argument for certain technologies, like interstellar travel, artificial intelligence, alien contact, time-travel, etc. being not only optional, but being unfixed(randomly or selectively) placed in the tech trees, and have more variable development possibilities.
Imagine interstellar space travel being developed tomorrow, or sometime in the next few hundred years. Being able to pick either scenario, or be surprised by it, would make the future of C2C interesting.
I for one want to play multiple possible futures, not just the most probable one. I think that from the present onward, that multiple ways of approaching the future tech-trees should be explored, so that many futures are possible.
Variable, interesting, selectable, and surprising futures, beat one fixed future. As Strategy Only said, Let people play what they want to!

I think varied C2C gameplay: anachronistic technologies (computers developed in the 18th century - Charles Babbage - Difference Engine, or ), alternate histories (A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court -by Mark Twain), utopian and dystopian scenarios, what-if possibilities, popular and obscure science-fiction and speculative ideas and gameplay outcomes, and all sorts of randomly possible and probable gameplay should be optional and possible in the core C2C game (to keep it changing, varied, and interesting) and built on a fixed foundation of what is most probable, plausible, and historically realistic.
I recommend that C2C could start with the most likely future tech-tree; some techs do appear to directly lead to others, and then let the more uncertain or fantastic ones be surprises, options, or random possibilities based on their likeliness to happen. Simply make the more unlikely, uncertain, un-date-able (what era/time could this technology be developed in?), and fantastic techs, part of an alternate tech-tree, that can fit in simultaneously and optionally with the more plausible one.
I know development would take time, but I think Future Variability should be a ModTeam goal.

This way people can pick and choose, and vary (intentionally, randomly, or with probability) the fun/realistic things they want to play in the future.
Having history open up to the wide possibility of the future, can make C2C having an exciting and interesting combinatorial end game (that can be different every time), instead of just a limited scripted set of goals.

Either way, there are some good ideas for techs here. And certainly things that people would want to play.

Check the link out if you are curious. I hope this leads to some discussion. :)

I will list the ideas in the general future thread.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=469503
 
Okay, I think I have a handle on the first half of the Transhuman Era. I'm going to start posting a column or two at a time and see if I am on the same page as everyone else before I make any XML changes. There has been so many comments and suggestions flying around that I would like to do this in parts and set up a base to work from.

In table form:
|X79 - Modern Era|X80 - Transhuman Era
Y1|Cyberwarfare|
Y3||Online Communities
Y5|Wearable Computers|Exoplanet Discovery
Y7|Machine Learning|Digital Warfare
Y9||
Y11||
Y13|Quantum Teleportation|
Y15|Biomaterials|Flash Memory|
Y17||Rapid Prototyping
Y19|Cloning|

Column X79: This was the beginning of the Transhuman Era, but it will be the last column of the Modern Era. The list:
  • Y1: Cyberwarfare
    requires Cloud Computing + Knowledge Management + Modern Warfare
  • Y5: Wearable Computers
    requires Cloud Computing + Media Psychology
  • Y7: Machine Learning (rename of Cognitive Robotics)
    requires Cloud Computing + Communication Networks + Neural Networks
  • Y13: Quantum Teleportation
    requires Fiber Optics + Superstring Theory
  • Y15: Biomaterials (rename of Biofuels)
    requires Aquaculture + Fuel Cells + Gene Manipulation
  • Y19: Cloning
    requires Bioinformatics
All prerequisites for these techs are unchanged. Gesture Recognition is merged into Machine Learning. Next Generation GPS is deleted.

Column X80: This is the first column of the Transhuman Era.
  • Y3: Online Communities
    requires Conglomerates + Wearable Computers
  • Y5: Exoplanet Discovery
    requires Cloud Computing + Radio Astronomy + Superstring Theory
  • Y7: Digital Warfare (rename of Integrated Network Command)
    requires War Simulations + Wearable Computers
  • Y15: Flash Memory
    requires Wearable Computers
  • Y17: Rapid Prototyping
    requires 3D Printing + Communication Networks + Knowledge Management
Neurotechnology is deleted from this column.

So, is there anything that should be added or deleted from these two columns? Also feel free to suggest changes to prerequisites.
 
Looks fine to me. Thanks for keeping things so organized.

I am updating the online tech tree as you go. Replacing or deleting the red text and replacing with bold text.

I assume War Simulations, Cloud Computing, Bioinformatics and Media Psychology are fine since they were in x78.

I like those as well. Those four x78 techs seem fine to me (they've all been around for 5 or so years now).
 
Looks fine to me. Thanks for keeping things so organized.

I am updating the online tech tree as you go. Replacing or deleting the red text and replacing with bold text.

I assume War Simulations, Cloud Computing, Bioinformatics and Media Psychology are fine since they were in x78.

I was not going to change anything in column x78. The Modern Era is a separate discussion, and I'm pretty much fine with everything there. We need some new content for those techs, but that is for other topics as well.

Can you please remove the science bonus to the Robotics Lab from Gesture Manipulation? That tech is going to be deleted, so I don't want any XML errors in the file. I find Agent Ransack does a good job of finding where we used a particular tag so we can make sure that there aren't any problems.
 
Okay, I just figured out that I was looking at a different Transhuman draft (image file) than some of the other suggestions were aimed at. This is specifically regarding Neurotechnology, that I thought we were just deleting. So, instead of deleting it, we will keep it but rename it to Advanced Molecular Biology. Sound good? (This is what happens when there is too much stuff flying around.)

The prerequisites for Neurotechnology were Bioinformatics + Media Psychology + Virtual Reality, but that doesn't seem to make much sense for Advanced Molecular Biology. This was also going to cover the territory of Synthetic Biochemistry and Targeted Drug Delivery. Do you have some good suggestions for a new set of prerequisites? We should definitely keep Bioinformatics, but I don't know what else would fit without really pushing this technology up the tree.
 
For future reference (and this is something that I will be doing for the later columns), these are some proposed technologies from the previous drafts that aren't in my suggestions, plus the reasons why.

  • Animal Rights (this is very controversial territory and has a longer history than where it is placed now)
  • Anti-Ballistic Missiles (better as a project/promotion)
  • E-Learning (merged with Online Communities)
  • Mechatronics (deleted)
  • Planetary Business (deleted)
  • Software Sports (merged with Online Communities)
  • Synthetic Biochemistry (merged into Advanced Molecular Biology)
  • Targeted Drug Delivery (merged into Advanced Molecular Biology)

Let me know if I missed anything else here.
 
Okay, I just figured out that I was looking at a different Transhuman draft (image file) than some of the other suggestions were aimed at. This is specifically regarding Neurotechnology, that I thought we were just deleting. So, instead of deleting it, we will keep it but rename it to Advanced Molecular Biology. Sound good? (This is what happens when there is too much stuff flying around.)

The prerequisites for Neurotechnology were Bioinformatics + Media Psychology + Virtual Reality, but that doesn't seem to make much sense for Advanced Molecular Biology. This was also going to cover the territory of Synthetic Biochemistry and Targeted Drug Delivery. Do you have some good suggestions for a new set of prerequisites? We should definitely keep Bioinformatics, but I don't know what else would fit without really pushing this technology up the tree.

That's fine. I trust you judgement on tech requirements since you have repeatably improved the tech tree in other eras before.
 
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