C2C - Transhuman Era
- Thread starter rightfuture
- Start date
@Vokarya:
That looks pretty good. I give my approval for those changes.
Thanks. There wasn't anything here that I didn't already post, but I did decide it was easier to move the existing Online Community tech backwards instead of deleting it and renaming Digital Economics.
How far have you gone with your analysis? I have gone up through column X88, which covers about three-fifths of the Transhuman Era. I think we have about four more rounds of this to go, then what I call Project Luna (moving all of the Lunar techs back into the Transhuman Era), then a "sanitization run" to make sure that all the redundancies are removed and we didn't leave any dead-ends except for Biopunk and Cyberpunk.
To the beginning of the Galactic Era. I'll see if I can find the old list of things I had for techs past X90 and post those.
OK, here they are
Those would be the only new techs added between X91 and X98, inclusive. Any other non-black techs should go.
- Robotic Argiculture
- Lunar Militarization
- Planet Scanning
- Nanomining
- Spacescrapers
- Mind Uploading
- Underwater Megastructures
- Neuron Architecture
- Artificial Life
- Solar Propulsion
Those would be the only new techs added between X91 and X98, inclusive. Any other non-black techs should go.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Sorry for being slow. Done!
Thanks. Changes committed to SVN now. Time for round 2!
Okay, here are the next two columns on the tree: columns X83-X84. There are not a lot of changes here: many technologies are the black techs that we need to keep, and several of the others are solid enough to keep.
Again, in table form:
|X83|X84
Y1|Military Robotics|
Y3||
Y5|Metamaterials|Asteroid Belt Probes
Y7|Powered Exoskeleton|
Y9|Controlled Plasma|Automated Traffic
Y11||Civilian Robots
Y13|Micromechanics|Brain-Machine Interface
Y15|Genome Encyclopedia|
Y17|Ecological Engineering|Genesis Biology
Y19||Replacement Organs
Column X83:
Hormone Design is merged into Molecular Medicine.
Column X84:
Modular Armament is deleted and would be better as a promotion.
Deleted draft technologies:
Two comments on names:
Do you see any other problems?
Again, in table form:
Y1|Military Robotics|
Y3||
Y5|Metamaterials|Asteroid Belt Probes
Y7|Powered Exoskeleton|
Y9|Controlled Plasma|Automated Traffic
Y11||Civilian Robots
Y13|Micromechanics|Brain-Machine Interface
Y15|Genome Encyclopedia|
Y17|Ecological Engineering|Genesis Biology
Y19||Replacement Organs
Column X83:
- Y1: Military Robotics
requires Biomechanical Harvesting + Cyberwarfare + Machine Learning + Unmanned Air Vehicles [Next Generation GPS is deleted] - Y5: Metamaterials
requires Biomathematics + Imaginary Physics + Stealth - Y7: Powered Exoskeleton
requires Flash Memory + Machine Learning [Next Generation GPS is deleted] - Y9: Controlled Plasma
requires Organic Photonics [Imaginary Physics is redundant] - Y13: Micromechanics
requires Biomathematics + Flash Memory + Imaginary Physics - Y15: Genome Encyclopedia
requires Molecular Medicine + Online Communities - Y17: Ecological Engineering
requires Biomaterials + Climate Models + Fire Suppression + Volcanology
Hormone Design is merged into Molecular Medicine.
Column X84:
- Y5: Asteroid Belt Probes
requires Commercial Spaceflight + Military Robotics + Organic Photonics - Y9: Automated Traffic
requires Machine Learning + Rapid Prototyping [Contemporary Vehicles - Y11: Civilian Robots (rename of Disaster Robots)
requires Military Robotics [Artisan Firefighting and Specialized Police are deleted] - Y13: Brain-Machine Interface
requires Molecular Medicine + Organic Photonics - Y17: Genesis Biology
requires Astrobiology + Genome Encyclopedia + Machine Learning + Molecular Medicine + Organic Photonics - Y19: Replacement Organs
requires Genome Encyclopedia + Metamaterials + Micromechanics + Molecular Medicine
Modular Armament is deleted and would be better as a promotion.
Deleted draft technologies:
- Amino Metallurgy (deleted)
- Autoaim Armament (better as a promotion)
- Core Geologics (deleted)
- Dreadnaught Design (merged into Warmachines)
- Geomorphology (deleted)
- Particle Astrophysics (merged into Imaginary Physics)
- Planetary Collaboration (deleted, what does this evenmean?)
Two comments on names:
- I think Genome Encyclopedia sounds better than Genomic Encyclopedia. Genomic Encyclopedia implies that the genomes are somehow the material the encyclopedia is made of, not the content.
- I am not sure of the name Civilian Robots -- I think it sounds too close to Personal Robots later on in the tree. The idea is for robots that serve in emergency situations, such as police and fire work. Any ideas for a good name?
Do you see any other problems?
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@Vokarya
"Emergency Response Robots" maybe? Also I think that Fire Suppression should be added to its requirements. Thus Emergency Response Robots = Military Robotics + Fire Suppression.
I also agree that Genomic Encyclopedia sounds better.
The rest look fine. Approved (with the above changes).
Note we could always call them "Civil Service Robots" or "Public Service Robots". This would be a broad range of robots, bot only from Police and Firefighters but also Garbage and Medic robots. Possibly even repair bots.
Note that these would differ from Personal Robots in that they would be much too expensive and specialized for use in the home. they also would not need to look humanoid at all. Think of all the robots in WALL-E.
"Emergency Response Robots" maybe? Also I think that Fire Suppression should be added to its requirements. Thus Emergency Response Robots = Military Robotics + Fire Suppression.
I also agree that Genomic Encyclopedia sounds better.
The rest look fine. Approved (with the above changes).
Note we could always call them "Civil Service Robots" or "Public Service Robots". This would be a broad range of robots, bot only from Police and Firefighters but also Garbage and Medic robots. Possibly even repair bots.
Note that these would differ from Personal Robots in that they would be much too expensive and specialized for use in the home. they also would not need to look humanoid at all. Think of all the robots in WALL-E.
@Vokarya:
Wait, we're keeping Genesis Biology? I don't even know what that is, so I'm pretty sure I deleted it, but if I didn't, I don't want to keep it. Man I need some coffee.
@Hydro:
I agree with your changes there, so Vokarya can make all of those changes except for Genesis Biology.
Wait, we're keeping Genesis Biology? I don't even know what that is, so I'm pretty sure I deleted it, but if I didn't, I don't want to keep it. Man I need some coffee.
@Hydro:
I agree with your changes there, so Vokarya can make all of those changes except for Genesis Biology.
@Vokarya:
Wait, we're keeping Genesis Biology? I don't even know what that is, so I'm pretty sure I deleted it, but if I didn't, I don't want to keep it. Man I need some coffee.
Hydro wanted to keep Genesis Biology. I don't have too much of an opinion either way -- I think we need some transhuman biology technologies.
Well, It needs a new name. I'm not certain what though.
Fair enough. I'll add that. I like that idea for tying Fire Suppression closer into the bulk of the Tech Tree. It's required for a few techs now, but there are some places where it can be better woven into the entire tree.
OK. Keep in mind we still have Automated Services further down the tree, at around X88. I think what should be here are the heavy robots for emergency situations. Garbage/medic/repair comes later.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@ls612
Yeah I wanted to keep the hi-tech biology and chemistry since there are always advances in the fields and needed some tech in the era to represent it.
Ah ok so these would be the "fire-bots" and stuff then. So I guess "Emergency Response Robots" is a good name?
Mainly because Artisan Firefighting tech required Fire Suppression. So I thought it would be good if it were included in the requirements again.
Yeah I wanted to keep the hi-tech biology and chemistry since there are always advances in the fields and needed some tech in the era to represent it.
Ah ok so these would be the "fire-bots" and stuff then. So I guess "Emergency Response Robots" is a good name?
Mainly because Artisan Firefighting tech required Fire Suppression. So I thought it would be good if it were included in the requirements again.
Okay, so here are the next two columns of the Tech Tree as I understand them. I'd like to get this round approved and then I will commit these four columns (X83 - X86) to the XML before the freeze starts.
|X85|X86
Y1|Augmented Reality|
Y3||Virtual Society
Y5||
Y7||
Y9|Direct Merchandising|Ubiquitous Computing
Y11|Graphene|Advanced Digital Warfare
Y13|Microgenerators
Y15|Affective Algorithms|Hydroponics
Y17||
Y19|Genomic Health Care
Column X85:
Machine Binaurals and Machine Vision are both merged into Artificial Intelligence further down the tech tree.
I would like to keep Direct Merchandising. I don't think it's a sociological technology as much as an economic technology. I think the point of this tech is to establish a "perfect market", where every buyer and seller has perfect information. It's an economic theory that's never been able to be created in reality. I think it does need a better name, but I can't find a good, short name for it. I also like Microgenerators and think we should keep it.
Column X86:
Evolutionary Algorithms and TAEM Simulation are both merged into Artificial Intelligence. Digitalized Fabrics is merged into Ubiquitous Computing. Biodiversity Geonomics and Biofeedback Design are both merged into Genomic Health Care.
Other deleted draft technologies for later reference:
Please let me know if there are any changes to make to these two columns. I am away from my main modding computer right now, so I don't know which buildings need to be changed - I can get that information soon.
Y1|Augmented Reality|
Y3||Virtual Society
Y5||
Y7||
Y9|Direct Merchandising|Ubiquitous Computing
Y11|Graphene|Advanced Digital Warfare
Y13|Microgenerators
Y15|Affective Algorithms|Hydroponics
Y17||
Y19|Genomic Health Care
Column X85:
- Y1: Augmented Reality
requires Biomathematics + Machine Learning + Organic Photonics [Photorealism and Speech Recognition are deleted] - Y9: Direct Merchandising
requires Automated Traffic + Online Communities - Y11: Graphene
requires Controlled Plasma + Metamaterials + Micromechanics - Y13: Microgenerators (rename of Microturbines)
requires Biomechanical Harvesting + Micromechanics + Organic Photonics - Y15: Affective Algorithms
requires Automated Traffic + Brain-Machine Interface + Genome Encyclopedia + Online Communities - Y19: Genomic Health Care (rename of Personalized Health)
requires Brain-Machine Interface + Replacement Organs
Machine Binaurals and Machine Vision are both merged into Artificial Intelligence further down the tech tree.
I would like to keep Direct Merchandising. I don't think it's a sociological technology as much as an economic technology. I think the point of this tech is to establish a "perfect market", where every buyer and seller has perfect information. It's an economic theory that's never been able to be created in reality. I think it does need a better name, but I can't find a good, short name for it. I also like Microgenerators and think we should keep it.
Column X86:
- Y3: Virtual Society
requires Direct Mechandising - Y9: Ubiquitous Computing (rename of Miniaturized Electronics)
requires Augmented Reality + Microgenerators + Powered Exoskeleton - Y11: Advanced Digital Warfare (rename of Insecta Robotics)
requires Affective Algorithms + Microgenerators + Military Robotics - Y15: Hydroponics
requires Ecological Engineering + Genesis Biology + Microgenerators
Evolutionary Algorithms and TAEM Simulation are both merged into Artificial Intelligence. Digitalized Fabrics is merged into Ubiquitous Computing. Biodiversity Geonomics and Biofeedback Design are both merged into Genomic Health Care.
Other deleted draft technologies for later reference:
- Chronic Immunization (merged into Genomic Health Care)
- Civilian Droids (merged into Disaster Robots)
- Deepsea Warfare (we may need this later, but we'll have to create it)
- DNA Barcode
- Extreme Habilitation
- Intelligent Munitions (better as a promo)
- Machine Smell (merged with Artificial Intelligence)
- Microbot Defenses (merged with Advanced Digital Warfare)
- Multispectrum Stealth
- Orbital Militarization (merged with Orbital Flight)
- Pheromone Biochemistry (merged with Genomic Health Care)
- Robot Society (better as a Civic)
- Social Calculus (better as a Civic)
Please let me know if there are any changes to make to these two columns. I am away from my main modding computer right now, so I don't know which buildings need to be changed - I can get that information soon.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Direct Merchandising seems fine. I don;'t mind you keeping it.
Also should "health care" be one word instead of two?
I still think Hydroponics should come in the modern era. You have any idea how it should be worked into a modern spot and then the other dependent techs redone?
Also should "health care" be one word instead of two?
I still think Hydroponics should come in the modern era. You have any idea how it should be worked into a modern spot and then the other dependent techs redone?
rightfuture
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,649
I think that Healthcare refers to the industry, health care refers to a type of care. They both basically mean the same thing.
Second that on hydroponics. It is being used quite a bit today in commercial farming.
Soon enough, the hydroponics industry will be widely available in people's homes. (It is starting to catch on in New York I hear.)
It is kind of like when the printing industry moved into people's homes when home printers became affordable. Look to 3D printing being able to easily manufacture spare parts, being the next commercial, then home revolution. It will drive parts manufacturers out of business. The service industry will not be long behind as artificial intelligence streamlines the need for call centers, then customer interaction. Automated answering services were just one of the first obvious steps in replacing the need for people.
Many technologies are discovered in one time, realized in another, and then made popular once they mature. Predicting exactly when they will catch on is a science. You would be surprised what you can pin down.
I learned a lot in my senior technology management class (university) , (the textbook was from MIT and almost everyone failed the class; It helped that I had both business and electrical engineering experience at the time.)
1. Fine by me, so long as we actually have ideas for what to put on it.
2. I don't care either way, I always write and read it as one word, but if you want it as two words I'm okay with that.
3. Definitely, we already have hydroponic farming on a small scale today, so that seems reasonable.
Modern Health Care is separated, so I'm following that. (Personally, I renamed Modern Health Care to Clinical Medicine, so I never see it.)
We could do that. Do you think it should be on the same level, before, or after Aquaculture? We moved Aquaculture backwards from the Transhuman to the Modern, and those two technologies always seemed sort of paired to me. A modern Hydroponics should tie into at least one of Ecology, Aquaculture, or Recycling.
Currently, Hydroponics requires:
- Ecological Engineering (early Transhuman Era)
- Genesis Biology (middle Transhuman Era)
- Microgenerators (middle Transhuman Era)
- Liquid Metals (why, I don't know)
- Marine Architecture
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@Vokarya
I would say that Hydroponics and Aquaculture are sister sciences in that in Aquaculture you can farm marine species such as fish or grow algae, while Hydroponics is the technique of growing plants without the need of soil. Both involve water and farming but are specifically different (which is why we have them as separate techs). Both have been developed around the same time as well and for similar reasons.
I am thinking ...
Hydroponics
Location: X74 Y19
Cost: Same as Aquaculture
Req Techs: Genetics AND Ecology
Biomaterals
Req Techs: Aquaculture AND Gene Manipulation AND Fuel Cells AND Hydroponics
Organic Photonics
Req Techs: Flash Memory AND Imaginary Physics AND Biomathematics
Liquid Metals
Req Techs: Graphene AND Biodiversity Genomics
Notes: In short just remove the Hydroponics requirement. It becomes redundant with Biodiversity Genomics
Marine Architecture
Notes: Same here since it also requires Biodiversity Genomics.
In short ....
Hydroponics -> Biomaterals -> Ecological Engineering -> Biodiversity Genomics
I would say that Hydroponics and Aquaculture are sister sciences in that in Aquaculture you can farm marine species such as fish or grow algae, while Hydroponics is the technique of growing plants without the need of soil. Both involve water and farming but are specifically different (which is why we have them as separate techs). Both have been developed around the same time as well and for similar reasons.
I am thinking ...
Hydroponics
Location: X74 Y19
Cost: Same as Aquaculture
Req Techs: Genetics AND Ecology
Biomaterals
Req Techs: Aquaculture AND Gene Manipulation AND Fuel Cells AND Hydroponics
Organic Photonics
Req Techs: Flash Memory AND Imaginary Physics AND Biomathematics
Liquid Metals
Req Techs: Graphene AND Biodiversity Genomics
Notes: In short just remove the Hydroponics requirement. It becomes redundant with Biodiversity Genomics
Marine Architecture
Notes: Same here since it also requires Biodiversity Genomics.
In short ....
Hydroponics -> Biomaterals -> Ecological Engineering -> Biodiversity Genomics
We're merging Biodiversity Geonomics into Genomic Health Care. If you want it separated, I can put Biodiversity Geonomics back. Hydroponics works for me where you are putting it -- I think I've gotten used to it where it is, but it can be moved.
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